The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

2 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

No way, like the Doctor the composer needs to be British! 
 

I second Arnold. He’s done Bond, now he needs to do the other 60-year old British franchise featuring a man whose face changes every few years.

To be honest I hadn’t even thought of nationality I just thought he’d do a good job. But now you mention David Arnold… I guess I still have him down as a Hollywood composer even if that hasn’t been the case for a while. Alas. But yeah. He’d be a great choice. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I thought Segun had already said that he was leaving with Chibnall, that was the impression I was under anyway

 

If Murray Gold isn’t returning then the 60th is going to be pretty weird given how many returning characters there are

[Dave 217]

And Arnold already worked with the BBC and Steven Moffat... and he did Stargate.. I love that score.

 

Murray Gold is allowed to return but only after he released the Doctor Who: Series 10 and Years & Years score.

[Richard Penna 3,680]

I'd personally rather see another new composer rather than Gold returning simply because the BBC wants a reset.

 

Before Segun goes, we need a final release of this series. Still very surprised he didn't do a Flux release, then one last one for the final episode.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

The twitter from Akinola was nice. The last few years have seen the worst DW era ever, but it had nothing to do with him. I pity, and admire, him, for providing such decent music, while being associated with such utter shite.

 

 

47 minutes ago, Dave said:

Murray Gold is allowed to return but only after he released the Doctor Who: Series 10 and Years & Years score.

 

... and SHAMELESS 

 

 

1 hour ago, Dave said:

David Arnold.

Fuck, yeah! Especially as he's already done a version of Ron Grainer's title music.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

2 hours ago, Dave said:

David Arnold.

 

Hasn't he already sung on Gold's Who anyway? Or was that a different David Arnold?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

No way, like the Doctor the composer needs to be British! 

I hear that there's an American nonagenarian who's not doing much, at the moment 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Hasn't he already sung on Gold's Who anyway? Or was that a different David Arnold?

Yeah, that was David Arnold, the plumber, from Macclesfield.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

50 minutes ago, Dave said:

And Arnold already worked with the BBC and Steven Moffat... and he did Stargate.. I love that score.

 

Murray Gold is allowed to return but only after he released the Doctor Who: Series 10 and Years & Years score.

And his music for Gentleman Jack is a lot of fun too although don’t know if there cues are extensive enough for a coherent album. Plus his theme and whatever he wrote for the Musketeers (the album for the second and third series by Paul Englishby is great!). Oh and his arrangement of the DW from Matt Smith’s last series which oddly didn’t make it onto disc. 

2 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Hasn't he already sung on Gold's Who anyway? Or was that a different David Arnold?

Neil Hannon off of the Divine Comedy sang a couple of tracks in the early series but don’t recall David Arnold contributing.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

Indeed. Hannon's song on THE CHRISTMAS INVASION is much better than the version on the CD.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

7 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Neil Hannon off of the Divine Comedy sang a couple of tracks in the early series but don’t recall David Arnold contributing.

 

From Gold's liner notes about The Stowaway:

Quote

Inspired by the brilliant script for Voyage of the Damned and performed by Yamit Mamo. I have to apologise for the boisterous and out of tune voices in the background at the end. They include me (main culprit), Ben, David Arnold and other friends. I had a choice of this version, or one with them taken out. Hey, sometimes it's ok to be shameless. And if the protest is too big, I'll find a way of getting a sanitized version out there.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

"... sometimes it's ok to be shameless".

Nice meta-reference, there.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

From Gold's liner notes about The Stowaway:

 

 

Ah yeah I totally forgot about that but now I remember! Haha cool. 

[Dave 217]

Murray's liner notes are the best. Especially from the CD version of "The Snowman / Doctor, Widow, Wardrobe"

[Richard Penna 3,680]

I sort of miss the days of the single CD album releases. The albums for series 1/2, 3 and 4 are so well put together.

 

I don't say that in the sense of wanting to deprive others of the plentiful music on later seasons, but I started to wish he'd do something for both camps, as I've found progressively less interesting music later in his tenture. I think Akinola got away with 'filler' material more because of his minimalist style, where Gold's orchestral meanderings occasionally got a bit... meandering.

 

And to balance out that twist in the tale, I'd love a complete release for Akinola's Rosa.

[Dave 217]

On 20/07/2022 at 3:04 PM, Richard Penna said:

I sort of miss the days of the single CD album releases. The albums for series 1/2, 3 and 4 are so well put together.

While I consider S4 Specials, S5 & 6 as really well put together releases, I kinda agree. S7 had a total of 74, mostly really short tracks that didn't worked that well in given order, CDs 1 & 2 of S8 where too long and S9 is not a great release outside of the brilliant "Heaven Sent" score that thankfully got it's own disc. But here's the thing. EVERY Murray Gold scored Season had some really cool pieces that didn't got included on the releases. The opening two-parter of S9 alone has at least 20 minutes of awesome music that is unreleased. In the end I'm not unhappy that we got one disc more for the season and one disc for every special episode.

 

Somewhere in the Linernotes or Interview of S4, Murray mentions a 3h long S4 album that got cut down to the 75 minutes we know. I'd love to have this. I correct therefore my post above: Murray Gold is allowed to return but only after he released the Doctor Who: Series 10 and Years & Years score and a DW leftover set containing:

CD1: A 75 minute original synth mix S1 score album

CD2: Leftovers from David Tannant

CD3: Leftovers from Matt Smith

CD4: Leftovers from Peter Capaldi

 

As for Akinola's music, I really like "Resolution", "Spyfall 1&2", "Ascension of the Cyberman" & "The Timeless Children". Everything else was just hardly music and more atmospheric soundscape. I haven't watched any Who after Timeless Children so I cant judge on those ones but if Akinola's music improved between S12 & S13 like between S11 & S12 it could be quite good.

 

Another thing about Akinola. While I wished he would follow Murray's foodsteps and provide an energetic over-the-top orchestral score he now seems to follow Murray's foodsteps in a different way. With not releasing his last seasons score. But I'm sure we will get one after the last episode of the specials primiered.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I think Gold should return for the specials in 2023. It'd be pretty amazing to let him wrap things up musically so to speak - I don't really feel like he got that opportunity in series 10. Moffat had a bad tendency to track in previous music instead of original material Gold wrote (Day of the Doctor could've been something really special if that hadn't happened), so I'd love it if he got that chance to give us all his Doctor themes one last time. Especially if Smith and Capaldi do end up making appearances as well - I salivate at the thought of hearing "A Good Man" and "I Am The Doctor" again.

 

After that though it's definitely time for a new composer. But whoever it is I hope they pick up Gold's mantle and push for a bigger orchestra with colourful orchestrations. Akinola nailed the brief in terms of delivering a contemporary hybrid score suitable for television, but suitable doesn't really cut it for Doctor Who. Who knows (heh) what he'd have done if he wasn't being pushed to make the score so dull - I've heard other stuff of his and he's definitely capable of it. RTD at least seems to understand how important scoring is beyond the mere functional, so that's encouraging.

[mstrox 6,650]

Natalie Holt is a Brit!

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

The same source who leaked Tennant and Tate's return for the 60th anniversary has said that Moffat will be writing for Gatwa's Doctor. 

If true, this is excellent news ... I thought Chibnall's 'no established Who writers, except me' policy was a mistake (people who'd previously only written for the stage, children's literature etc? Bollocks to that, especially with a property as beloved as Doctor Who) and previously, Moffat's pre-showrunner writing for Who included The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, The Girl In The Fireplace, Blink, and Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead ... all great episodes.       

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

"The Girl In The Fireplace" 

Everything else he wrote, was good.

[Tallguy 3,381]

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

"The Girl In The Fireplace" 

Everything else he wrote, was good.

 

What is this? Disagree with NOF Day? I love Fireplace. Although I wonder if he just shamelessly stole from Time Traveler's Wife or if he turned TTW into a Moffat show? (I haven't read the book.)

 

"Oooooooh... You didn't have the PARTS..." is possibly my favorite Tennant line ever.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

6 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

What is this? Disagree with NOF Day? I love Fireplace. 

Disagree with me a you want. I honestly don't mind 

I welcome healthy debate.

The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances is truly magnificent.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

7 hours ago, Tallguy said:

What is this? Disagree with NOF Day? I love Fireplace.

 

I thought I was in a minority for ranking it highly, but not the best of his (or any) NuWho - I still favour Blink.

 

7 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Although I wonder if he just shamelessly stole from Time Traveler's Wife or if he turned TTW into a Moffat show? (I haven't read the book.)

 

TTW is all over Moffat's Who (think River Song), and has been cited as a major inspiration. That's what made me read it. I haven't seen the series yet.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

53 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Disagree with me a you want. I honestly don't mind 

I welcome healthy debate.

The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances is truly magnificent.

What is it about The Girl in the Fireplace that you think is awful?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

8 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

TTW is all over Moffat's Who (think River Song), and has been cited as a major inspiration. That's what made me read it. I haven't seen the series yet.

 

Apparently the book's author very much enjoyed The Girl in the Fireplace and in her next novel the episode is referred to in one of the chapters as a cute little nod. I must get round to watching the series, but I'm more looking forward to Inside Man which sounds fantastic.

 

I'd love to see Moffat pen the occasional ep in the new series. Just let him have fun with the toys without the pressures of having to keep the wheels on the whole thing spinning. I'm sad that we never got to see a RTD-penned script in his era; he was slated to write a two-parter surrounding a trial for Davros, but it didn't work out and eventually became The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar.

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

Amongst Girl On The Fireplace's many joys is the 'My lover ... the King of France. Oh yeah? Well, I'm a Lord of Time', the genuine jump-scare when the Clockwork Droid snatches at the Doctor from under the bed where it's lurking and the almost Bond-esque jump through the mirror on horseback (followed by the 'Wahey! Check me out!' wink he gives Madame Pompadour). 

This is the sort of Doctor Who ... well, SWAGGER I hope RTD can bring back. Enough with series arcs so confusing the showrunner feels an explanatory 15-minute YouTube video is necessary, episodes that are writer's agenda-pushing first and story second and specials watched by fewer people on the night of broadcast than a repeat of Antiques Roadshow.   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

So, so sad about Bernard Cribbins.

Farewell, Wilfred Mott. Farewell, Tom Campbell.

[Positivatee 327]

93 is a long and fulfilling run. I hope to make it to half that. Rest in peace. 

[Richard Penna 3,680]

Only yesterday I rewatched his episode of Fawlty Towers. RIP.

[Brónach 1,302]

oh no

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

2 tribute rewatches this week ... Cold War for David Warner and The End Of Time parts 1 and 2 for Bernard Cribbins. 

The first is a fun Eleventh Doctor vs. a sole Ice Warrior 'nuclear fear' romp with a very strong supporting cast including Tobias Menzies, Liam Cunningham, the aforementioned Mr Warner and a young James Norton. 

The second has sci-fi action and spectacle to spare for Ten's swansong, but it's in the quieter moments between him and Wilf where the heart of it lies ... I find Ten becoming upset during his chat with Wilf in the cafe very moving, and ditto later when he tells Wilf that he'd be proud if he was his Dad. Tennant's combination of rage and grief when it transpires that Wilf is the one who 'will knock four times' is terrific, too.      

[Tallguy 3,381]

If you surprised me while I was doing something else and said "END OF TIME 1 & 2! TELL ME ABOUT THEM! NOW!" I would have to think several minutes before I came up with something other than the cafe scene. After I got my bearings I'd probably get to "SHHHHHHHHIMMER!" and "Worst! Rescue! Ever!"

 

"You're not coming with me!" "You're not leaving me with her!" "Fair enough."

 

I like the two parts quite a lot. But the cafe is the high point by such a good margin.

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

I wasn't in a good mood on Monday ... I'd only had about 3 hours sleep due to the heat (which is thankfully over now), work was busy and it being Dad's 79th birthday (had he lived to see it) was on my mind too. Then I remembered that there is a B&M store near work, and that they have exclusive-to-them Who merch. So I bought this Ten figure to cheer myself up - 

 

Maybe I have no business buying this sort of thing at the age of 51, but tbh I don't really bloody care. 

[Tallguy 3,381]

40 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Maybe I have no business buying this sort of thing at the age of 51, but tbh I don't really bloody care.

 

Of course you do. But now you have to tastefully display it someplace. I'm glad it made you happy.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

12 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Maybe I have no business buying this sort of thing at the age of 51, but tbh I don't really bloody care. 

Of course you have. You go, girl! 

What's B&M?

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

Chain of 'bargain' stores, sir. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

They are so "bargain" that they forgot to put the proper Doctor # 10 logo, on the box 

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

All newly-released Who stuff has that most recent version of the logo on it now, even if it's the likes of a BluRay boxset of a classic era Doctor.   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

Yeah. I know. I've seen it. I just wish that the BBC could have preserved continuity.

[Tallguy 3,381]

Well...

 

 

When I was a boy everything had the Tom Baker logo.

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

All classic era DVD releases used to have the logo first seen (I think) in the opening credits of the McGann movie. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

Sweep, don't you mean the Jon Pertwee opening credits? 

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

Ah yes, I do! Oops. 

And then his last series was the one where the 'diamond' logo was first seen.  

[Tallguy 3,381]

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_logo

 

Hmmm. I suppose I'd rate the current logo as my least favorite of the ones that I like.

 

Pertwee / Baker (the diamond)

Pertwee / McGann

Baker / Davison / Baker (neon)

Capaldi

Smith 1st season (with the TARDIS shaped DW)

Whitaker

 

After that they're all meh or rubbish.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

My all-time favourite will always be the 5th season Pertwee.

 

7 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Baker/Davison/Baker (neon)

Don't forget: Colin Baker's was altered, slightly.

 

 

7 hours ago, Tallguy said:

After that they're all meh or rubbish.

Agreed. Although I love McCoy's Doctor, his title sequence was trash.

It featured "groundbreaking" CGI 

 

Remember that, on November 23rd, 1963, nothing lIke that had ever been seen.

 

Your favourite theme arrangement?

Mine will always be Peter Howell.

In fact, I think I'll give it a listen, right now - in 5.1, on the FOUR TO DOOMSDAY DVD 

[Tallguy 3,381]

No no no, not title sequences. They've almost all been amazing except for McCoy's. (As the years go by I'm loving Capaldi's more and more.)

 

Just logos. And while Hartnell's title sequence was groundbreaking his logo was nothing to write home about.

 

Yeah, Howell has to win it. After that probably the original. Then I just melt down into an endless loop of "They're ALL SO GOOD!" (Except McCoy's. Ouch. Can't do it.) I love all of Gold's.

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

Poor McCoy chalks up a dubious double of a crappy logo and quite possibly the worst rendition of the theme tune (I'm not keen on the version used for Colin Baker's second series and there's also a crappy version that featured on Australian-broadcast-only Pertwee episodes).   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

51 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

...there's also a crappy version that featured on Australian-broadcast-only Pertwee episodes).   

Ah! The Delaware version. Not Malcolm Clarke's finest hour 

 

56 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Poor McCoy chalks up a dubious double of a crappy logo...

Agreed. It looks like it was designed by a seven year old child.

 

57 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

...I'm not keen on the version used for Colin Baker's second series...

I kind of like Dominic Glynn's title arrangement, for THE TRIAL OF A TIMELORD.

[Tallguy 3,381]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I kind of like Dominic Glynn's title arrangement, for THE TRIAL OF A TIMELORD.

 

I still love that version if only for the bass line and nothing else.

 

For when you can't be bothered to pick one:

 

I've heard lots of versions that lead from one to the other. This is the only one I've ever heard that mashes all of them together, taking this lead, that bass.

 

It's like every player gets a solo. At 1:40 when the Tom Baker bass comes in! Or when the Gold Middle Eight takes the spotlight! Ahhhh Doctor Who theme bliss! Even the McCulloch parts don't sound bad.

 

Sadly this was made in 2013 so it doesn't include Peter C. or Jodie.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

6 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Poor McCoy chalks up a dubious double of a crappy logo and quite possibly the worst rendition of the theme tune (I'm not keen on the version used for Colin Baker's second series and there's also a crappy version that featured on Australian-broadcast-only Pertwee episodes).   

I think it must be a nostalgia thing, but I always liked the McCoy version of the theme and the low-rent CGI (credit for trying something a bit different if nothing else).

 

The thing I can never quite used to is the original version of the theme (pre-Pertwee I think) before the opening, descending crash was introduced or the 80s equivalent from when Tom Baker's opening changed to the updated titles and theme. The original rhythm is a classic of course but it needed a bit more oomph to get it going, but the opening crash (I don't know how else to describe it) was a stroke of genius way to give the theme an introduction without actually writing any new music for it. Funnily enough, it's the really driving version of the rhythm that I especially love about the Peter Capaldi version, have recently re-watched his entire tenure, it makes the start of every episode even more exciting.

 

If only Murray Gold would release his second Matt Smith version (I can't recall what the reason was, some legal/technical reason?) of the the theme, although I'm not sure I'll ever love that little trumpet fanfare he added to both versions.

[Tallguy 3,381]

@Tom Guernsey either I'm not understanding you, or you're conflating NuWho (Gold) with the old theme. Gold added the swirling bubble sounding thing that was the end credits cliff hanger music (I'm not sure when that started being used in classic Who - It appears to be introduced with Terror of the Autons). Everything from Hartnell to Baker started with the plain bass rhythm. At some point (Troughton?) they kind of doubled it up with a reverb. I grew up with the Tom Baker stuff (American) and that actually had a slight stutter at the start. To me that still sounds the most "natural" even though I'm sure it was a mistake.

 

Then, as you say, they added the swoosh to the Howell credits and some version of that has been with us for most of the openings until Akinola, who opens with just the bass but then drops into a slow down kind of break, serving the same purpose I suppose. (All this jargon that I use. Imagine if I really knew words for this stuff!)