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The Doctor Who Thread.....

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I finished watching Spyfall and I'm so disappointed - I've rarely been so bored watching DW. Akinola's score didn't really stand out much apart from the big statement where they arrive at the party.

 

I was sort of amused at the 'T&Cs' part of the plot, but otherwise I thought the story was awful, save the very slightly clever bit with the plane.

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I think Doctor Who's fallen down a pit that it can't be saved from ever since Moffatt was in the stages of leaving.

You have an audience unwilling to accept a female Doctor and the worst writing the revived series have ever seen. They really needed to start with a bold vision for this new era of the show and unfortunately it's been going in the opposite direction.

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Chibnal's stories under Davies and Moffatt worked well, but for some reason it's just the most forgettable nonsense. I don't remember most of season 11 at all.

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“It Takes You Away” is a great, moody piece, and the historical episodes are very solid. I quite liked the first episode of series 11 as well.

 

At the end of the day, the showrunner will regenerate and this discussion will continue anew. I’m always cautiously optimistic about Who, I never expect it to be consistently amazing so when it does hit the highs it’s an absolute pleasure. 
 

I do hope Jamie Mathieson returns for an episode (or as showrunner) though. He’s probably the new Moffat in terms of the strength of his individual episode credits.

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On 1/8/2020 at 6:23 PM, Disco Stu said:

It's amazing how The Guardian continuously finds new ways to sink into self-parody.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/08/doctor-who-more-offensive-than-ever-jodie-whittaker-pc


When Sacha Dhawan revealed his 'true identity' to the Doctor I did think to myself 'Well, that'll be social media split between how great and progressive it is that a POC is playing the Master/how awful and racist it is that a POC is playing one of the show's most notorious 'baddies'. 

Sigh.    

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Meh, that article highlights the hunger of society to look for indications of implied racism in just about anything.

 

When I saw the Master's reveal, the first thing that struck me was Dhawan's complete change in character and I thought, wow, he's a good actor.

 

Maybe, just maybe, that's why they hired him for the role, and it had bugger all to do with his race? And the perception filter strikes me as doing the same thing that they did with Rosa - highlighting the racism prevalent back then.

 

Same idea with those not liking the new doctor because she's a woman.Far more likely that it's simply because the more recent stories haven't been particularly good and Whittaker's not being given the breadth of emotions and issues to handle that some of the other doctors did. But people blame it on the 'obvious' thing.

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Just finished watching Spyfall part 2 - it felt more like Doctor Who! Loved all the Doctor/Master interactions and the references to past seasons. Here's hoping the rest of the season can be as engaging.

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15 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I haven't seen this. @Sweeping Strings

Sweep, what didn't you like, about it?


From the TV show thread - 

'Dracula - somewhere inside this meandering 4-and-a-half-hour Moffat and Gatiss BBC production a tighter, more focused and just plain BETTER 3-hour version was struggling to get out.  

It had some interesting ideas, good performances and some very pleasing shots. But it also had an indulgent runtime, muddled and inconsistent writing and some big-ass plot holes.'  

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Pretty good episode last night, although it unfortunately was unable to resist a bit of climate-change 'preaching' at the end and also it suffered a little from that 'mad dash to get the story told in 50 minutes' thing that you sometimes get in modern Who.    

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ugh, this episode started off so promising in the first half. I was having fun again, I was like 'this is Doctor Who', and there were even some surprisingly little charming and human moments with the characters.

then the writing takes an absolute nose-dive, everyone is making weird decisions, forced drama comes out of nowhere with no build up and it feels so awkward. the pacing ends up erratic and the amount of times a character just randomly decides to die is absurd. the forced drama was not helped by some rather weak acting as well, I was not convinced at all with the emotions being portrayed, except for Jodie who was actually fairly decent this episode.

the preaching about climate change can go fuck itself. I've never seen an ethical message so un-subtle before, let your story do the talking for you and don't have the Doctor chide us like we're naughty children for the 0.01% that didn't understand the message of the episode.

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This is why I so vastly prefer stories based on either some historical event or a moral issue where there may be no 'right' thing to do and you end the episode debating whether the doctor did the right thing.

 

But an episode saying "this is an important issue and this is what you should think about it" is the wrong way to do it. I think Rosa just about got away with it.

 

(I haven't watched it yet but I can imagine what you're talking about.)

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1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said:

They used to be more subtle about it, I think. It can feel more like we're being lectured these days, which is not what people necessarily want from a show they turn to for a bit of escapism.  

 

Neither Moffat or Davies are subtle showrunners. 

 

Doctor Who is the wrong place to look if you just want escapism.

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4 hours ago, Stefancos said:

So why do people don't like moral messages in Doctor Who anymore?

 

2 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

They used to be more subtle about it, I think.

THE GREEN DEATH?! Subtle?!

THE SUN MAKERS?! Subtle?!

COLONY IN SPACE?! Subtle?!

Really?! :lol:

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4 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

They used to be more subtle about it, I think. It can feel more like we're being lectured these days, which is not what people necessarily want from a show they turn to for a bit of escapism.  

 

I wouldn't call Doctor Who escapism, and I don't think I would mind obvious "preaching" in general. To an extent, they are what good science fiction was made for. What annoys me is when it feels like the the main character is breaking the 4th wall by more or less talking directly to the audience at the end and explaining the true meaning of the episode (when that was already clear anyway). But that's the ongoing issue with the Chibnall run so far, I think. Most of it feels so disconnected. Doctor Who as I know it (i.e. basically the 2005+ series) has always been about the Doctor and (then) his companions as characters, and their relationships, and how they play out in the stories they end up in. But Whittaker's Doctor has so many companions, there's hardly any time to develop either her or them. So far they're still blank sheets, and little of what they do has much of an emotional impact as a result. And most stories (this one included) are told in such a disjointed manner that the guest characters and their choices also seem random and inconsequential. As far as the idea and setup are concerned, this seemed like a classic Who story (and something Douglas Adams might have come up with), but it never really came together. And despite all the budget and the new widescreen ratio, I thnk the effects and creatures feel cheaper than they ever have since the 2005 relaunch.

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I just watched it - I was enjoying it up until the last 10 mins when it all went to shit.

 

The oxygen subplot was pretty tense, and those creatures are actually scary. If they'd stuck offworld and come up with something more clever, this could have been better.

 

That sermon at the end though... what the fuck? Which writer thought that was a good idea?

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I just watched it too, and I found it... not good. Too many stupid decisions and too much silliness to take it seriously. Why did everyone go in that truck outside where the monsters are instead of saying safely inside? Why did the so-called "apex predators" just stand around and let the group with the old lady get away? Was I supposed to be moved by the "character arc" of the green haired guy and his son, or by the final goodbye between Ryan and Bella sucking their thumb? And what exactly prevented the Doctor to come back with the TARDIS right after to save Bella and Kane? Sigh...

And yes, I too found that the final speech was too on the nose, as if the message hadn't been made clear enough several times already. But hey, if this is what it takes to save the planet...

 

5 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

But Whittaker's Doctor has so many companions, there's hardly any time to develop either her or them. So far they're still blank sheets, and little of what they do has much of an emotional impact as a result.

 

Yeah... I mean it's fun to be around those companions, they have a nice dynamic in some scenes, but I can't say I have formed much of an attachment to any of them. Graham comes closest.

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I disagree that Doctor Who isn’t escapism, the rich world that was developed by the previous seasons put a particular emphasis on getting attached to the characters and the world.

 

Subtext is completely fine, that doesn’t ruin escapism and if anything that helps the world feel more grounded which is ironically more immersive. I just hate when that immersion is broken for no good reason, it makes everything fall apart and I suddenly give significantly less of a shit.

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that was a nice episode. I like its message and particularly appreciate how it didn't make Edison comically evil, it's the kind of thing I wanted with the previous episode in terms of moral exploration. Tesla was played really well and we got to see a slight edge to Jodie's Doctor which has been sorely needed for a while.

I appreciated how the aliens tied into the themes of the episode but I still felt like they fell pray to a case of telling instead of showing which had them come across as a bit bland. I would like for things to be explained in ways that aren't the Doctor providing exposition, it would make things a lot more interesting.

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Given that the fourth episode of Jodie's first series was the plot-holed and anti-climactic 'Arachnids In The UK', yes last night's was definitely better. 

The giant scorpions have beaten the giant spiders! 

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Interestingly I didn't like this week at all. I found the design of the aliens pretty stupid, and the whole Tardis shield thing stuck out to me as a very convenient plot device.

 

I'm really not liking this series at all so far and it's entirely down to rubbish stories. Last week's was going well until the sermon.

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The Orphan 55 episode was alright, for the first time the Chibnall era has started to resemble the heyday of the RTD era, you know, when it was fun and engaging. Just as that was setting in, the story still went nowhere and one after another of revelations and exposition without any time to develop, it went back to being a typical Chibnall era episode. The Drex or whatever they're called were interesting monster designs but less is more when you can't do much with them and unfortunately they were completely wasted by poor CG shots and stupids actions.

 

What happened to the Tardis, we hardly ever get to see it? It doesn't feel like a ship anymore.

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24 minutes ago, woj said:

I wish I hadn't known both spoilers going into that episode

SAME. The Doctor Who and BBC America Facebook accounts posted them within a day. Come on.

Still, it was good. It got me hooked in a way I haven't been for at least the past season and a half. 
 

Spoiler

Jack's entrance was total fan service, but I'm here for it. And it's worth it for him to finally come back.

Finally this could recall those creative and epic storylines that started New Who!

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On 1/27/2020 at 3:38 PM, Richard Penna said:

I rather enjoyed that one.

 

Please, please (please) let the twist represent something awesome.


I'm part intrigued, part wary. 

 

Spoiler

There's a rumour that the Master's 'Everything you think you know is a lie', the thing that made him raze Gallifrey to the ground is that he and the Doctor had incarnations previous to their 'first ones' and the Time Lords somehow/for some reason covered it up and made them forget about them ... hence the black female Doctor, apparently pre-Hartnell if the Tardis interior was anything to go by. 

So there's a chance we could be looking at a 'woke' sort-of retconning of the Doctor's past, presumably to 'atone' for him being a white bloke from Hartnell - Capaldi. And I'm kinda uneasy about that ... it doesn't need to be apologised for. 

That said, it was a pleasure to have that big intergalactic tart Captain Jack back. Hehehe. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:


I'm part intrigued, part wary. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That'd be kinda cool. It's hinted so much that

 

Spoiler

the master's and doctor's relationship is deeply ingrained in their childhood. And I feel like this new(/old?) Doctor has a young kind of edgy personality, the type I'd see interacting well with, say, John Simm's Master. Just playing devil's advocate to justify it from a story perspective since I get what you're saying but I'm still holding out hope that they'll actually craft storylines for the sake of creativity. Ultimately what I'm saying is the Doctor would have to have such a different dynamic for their deep bond to form from the beginning, and that personality contrast from the first Doctor we know could get that point across. 

 

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13 hours ago, Molly Weasley said:

SAME. The Doctor Who and BBC America Facebook accounts posted them within a day. Come on.

 

I do not follow Facebook or Twitter accounts out of current shows that I am presently watching or old shows that I didn't watch but someday will. 

 

All I did was open a new browser page on my phone, and Chrome suggested new stories for me. The top one showed Jodie next to <SPOILER> with some words. I didn't read the article but from the very first scene, I knew where that was going. 

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The idea of The Doctor, and The Master being "deeply ingrained", as @Molly Weasley puts it, goes back all the way to an unmade script, called THE FINAL GAME, where it would have been revealed they they were, in fact, brothers.

 

 

 

While we are on the subject of classic DW...Nicholas Parsons, who played Rev. Wainwright so well, died, today.

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Good episode this time, reminded me of something Moffat or Davies would do!

 

Spoilery speculation:

Spoiler

This week we discovered one of the Doctor's past lives and not only that, but other Gallifreyans who don't know of the Time War or The Master's actions and believe Gallifrey is still out there. Now, they're from the past, supposedly, but what if they're from a timeline our Doctor isn't aware of?

 

The 'Timeless Child' could mean that all of the Doctor's adventures were from an alternate timeline, one that was outside of the prime timeline, so to say. 

Even the Doctor realized that The Master's return was out of place/time.

 

Could this be Chibnall's way of changing  Doctor Who forever, by rewriting the established timeline?

 

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