The Doctor Who Thread.....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

RTD writes big, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I haven't had the problems with the finales that you guys have, they've invariably been among my favorites.

Yes that is one thing I noticed about you both here and in the BSG thread.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Spoilers ahoy for anyone who hasn't seen Torchwood: Children of Earth.

I completely agree that the strength in Doctor Who's writing is its characters. But it's not wrong to wish the plots were on the same level. The thing that annoys me the most is that RTD is perfectly capable of making the hard decisions, and not wussing out on a finale. Just look at Children of Earth. That's the textbook example of satisfying plot and character resolution. It's agonising to watch because it's so sad, not because it's badly written. I remember having arguments with my sister about it, and although she greatly enjoyed the finale she kept saying "I just couldn't help thinking that if it was the Doctor (instead of Captain Jack), he would have found another way". That's true - he would have found some contrived reason to save the day, ressurect Ianto, not sacrifice anyone AND be home in time for tea, but that's what made the episode so incredible. Jack had run out of options. He'd just lost another love, time had run out and there was already an element of responsibility he shared for the incident. So he sacrificed his own grandson to save the world. The solution made sense - sending the deadly psychic signal back at them - and it was presented in a way that created an emotional void in the main character, something that a quick quip and cup of tea won't fix.

RTD did a similar thing in Doomsday; the unlikely solution of the "reversed polarity whatsit sending the Daleks and Cyberman to the Void" in Canary Wharf at least didn't matter because it was eclipsed by the emotional departure of Rose. But hitting the reset button in Last of the Time Lords with the only casualty being the villain (who we all knew would return anyway) and killing off another billion Daleks in Journeys End at the literal press of a button doesn't hold much weight with me I'm afraid. The stakes were far, far too high and there were hardly any consequences. The emotional impact of these finales just isn't up to scratch: In the first instance, the Doctor is alone again - but that could've been done any number of ways which didn't result in reset buttons and fairy magic. In the second example, the Doctor-hybrid is banished from this universe for genocide. Why have the Doctor hybrid anyway? Kill Rose, have the increasingly unsettled Doctor then perform the genocide himself. It sets the stage for Waters of Mars and The End of Time, and could've created more insight into the Doctor's character since the Time War. Anyways, I'm actually nitpicking like crazy now. There's enough to love about the current series. I jsut get the impression that the Moff will be more in tune with traditional sci-fi thinking and won't sacrifice plot for character, or vice versa.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why have the Doctor hybrid anyway?

I still think it's was partly designed as a clever way to make it possible for Brent Spiner...eehhhh David Tennant to be in the show after his 10th Doctor dies.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I guess so. He also seemed like a way to get rid of Rose without killing her, because she logically would have no other reason to not then be his companion.

I personally thought the whole Doctor-Donna thing was a bit off until I saw the effects on Donna and her subsequent departure. That was heartbreaking stuff. She truly became the Doctor's equal but ended up her old selfish self.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Donna's faith was the saving grace of that gaudy, bloated monstrosity of a 2-parter.

[Wycket 36]

If it wasn't for Catherine Tate I would have had no love lost for "Journey's End" at all. The rest was too jammed packed together and seemed more like a reunion episode rather than a proper finale. At least she'll get a proper send-off in the "End of Time" (I hope). As RTD as a whole, I agree that he tries too hard in the finales, but I think that is more a product of trying to outdue the first couple finales.

In regardless to the Daleks, I blame the BBC. Moff said he didn't want to use them in the new series, yet there they are. I'm sure its been more the BBC pushing than RTD's desire to use the Daleks this much (I hope).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

At least she'll get a proper send-off in the "End of Time" (I hope).

I'm sceptical.

Rose's return to Doctor Who was a bit of a letdown after her earthshattering departure.

Martha in season 4 was also very dissapointing (i liked her much better in Torchwood).

[John Crichton 4]

Why have the Doctor hybrid anyway?

I still think it's was partly designed as a clever way to make it possible for Brent Spiner...eehhhh David Tennant to be in the show after his 10th Doctor dies.

I still can't believe that. It was a way to give Rose a happier ending and to let her be with the Doctor without her being with the Doctor. I don't think Tennant will be back except for potential multi-Doctor specials.

I was really skeptical about Rose coming back, but I think it was handled very well. The moment at the end of The Stolen Earth when she and the Doctor see each other again is one of the best new Who moments. But I agree about Martha, she was crap in series 4, at least outside the Sontaran two parter.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

Martha Jones? Sonta-HA!

[Richard Penna 3,687]

Well tomorrow's the day! I won't bother recording it as it'll be up in HD within a few hours and I'll be with the family long after 7pm.

The best moment from the last series I think was probably the one every DW fanboy will mention - the regeneration beginning. So unexpected, and you have to give it to them - made the next week total agony wondering just what the heck was going to happen.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That was the most dissapointing thing in my life!

The most successfull Doctor since Tom Baker and they kill him of by having him step on a rusty nail and getting tetanus!!!!

[Quintus 5,399]

Caught some of the first part yesterday and it seemed quite fun, the music was pretty good too. Are the scores always decent?

The first part was just the setup for New Years day though, which is when the Doc will meet his end.

[John Crichton 4]

Are the scores always decent?

Decent? At the lowest end they're always at least good, particularly series 3 on when Gold really got on a roll, and this one was wonderful. The first half especially had some real shining "I want this on CD!" moments. The various motifs connected with the Master got some great use, there were strong nods to Donna's theme and the Gallifrey theme, and the series 3 action theme made another cliffhanger appearance as it did in Turn Left. No Doctor Forever though, not that I caught at least.

SPOILERS

As for the whole episode, I pretty much agree with what Den of Geek had to say. As much as I love the Daleks and Davros, the Master is, without a shadow of a doubt, my favorite Who villan, and I have to question a lot of the things done with him here. Simm is great as always, no complaints there. But the resurrection scene was as bad as the early reviews indicated, more out of Harry Potter than Doctor Who, although it is amusing to think of the Master building an entire religon around himself. Finally getting to hear him say "You will obey me!" was great, though. But what the blue hell is the Jedi jumping and Force lightning all about (artron energy, supposedly)? And, at first viewing at least, the "whole human race is the Master" thing falls into the neat idea, questionable execution category.

The rest is as good as expected however. The shooting style is more cinematic than Who's ever been, Tennant is Tennant, Cribbins is Cribbins. The cafe scene was a masterstroke, from the Donna conversation to the Doctor's breakdown (with just exquisite subtelty from Tennant). Once again RTD has found a dark corner of the Doctor's character that's never been explored before, this time with regeneration. Always seen as a positive, even the Doctor questions it, saying it still feels like death, and he will be gone and some other man will take his place. Wonderful stuff.

I always thought that Donna was just going to be a cameo, looks like she's more involved in the story after all.

And, like Utopia and Turn Left, the very end is something I'll be watching more than a few times this upcoming week.

Oh, and I'd just like to say I've been calling it for a year.

About next week...

So Timothy Dalton is playing an evil Lord President. Borusa?...I don't think so, it's just fun to ask.

[Greg1138 3]

Thoroughly enjoyed it, but totally agree with you Mr Crichton Sir about the slightly questionable bits....

Incidentally, although I didn't watch it until well gone midnight, it is the first Christmas Special in a couple of years to keep me riveted enough to stay awake through the whole thing first time round!

[Richard Penna 3,687]

Can't really be bothered to give an in-depth review right now, but it was a decent episode, albeit with some serious creative flaws.

The resurrection was shameful - both in the "you don't know what you're doing!!" cliched rubbish and the actual effects. The final revelation was also a little too much - the return of the timelords? Aren't they all dead or something? What's RTD going to pull out of his hat this time?

[Wycket 36]

If the Daleks survived, the Timelords can survive.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

And I've never seen a lay person's (i.e. not a Who maniac) explanation for how the daleks have survived. I'm expecting something similarly contrived and 'convenient' for the time lords.

But at least it seems this will be more than just a Doctor vs Master battle.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's because they're awesome.

[John Crichton 4]

I'm curious to see what the Time Lords are going to be like in this. I've long thought that RTD was pulling inspiration from The War Games for this finale, but after the end of part one it looks like we're going to see some overtly evil Time Lords. Dalton's Lord President certainly looks to be falling that way.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get a revelation along the lines of the Time Lords being just as guilty of causing and progressing the Time War as the Daleks, and the Doctor decided to get rid of both evils, even if it meant sacrificing his own people.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Well, I watched Part One yesterday...

I agree with a lot of the above posts in the more questionable aspects of the episode. I was mostly underwhelmed; it seems RTD is saving everything for part 2. It kinda makes sense, but it felt like very little happened in an hour, which is bizarre because a normal episode is 40 minutes long and often feels packed to the brim. I'd even say I was bored for a lot of it.

The Master's resurrection and subsequent scenes were hardly enthralling; if I'd read in a description of the episode beforehand that the Master could now fly and shoot lightning bolts out of his hands I'd actually think it was a big joke. Anyways, the Doctor's two confrontations with the Master didn't engage me, but at least John Simm can still act the pants off a crazy person. The highlight was definitely Wilf Mott's involvement. Who'd have thought an old man would make a brilliant companion for the Doctor? And Donna's extended cameo was great too - by the looks of it she has a bit more to do next episode which is fantastic! The "mystery" father and daughter seem like useless plot devices to me and have no personalities, but at least the green potential alien allies have something going for them. Who is the woman who keeps contacting Wilf? I hope we actually find this out.

The revelation and execution of the "Master Race" really had me scratching my head and almost laughing. I was positive the Master would use the "Immortality Gate" to resurrect Gallifrey, but instead he just cloned himself 6 billion times. Not the finest moment of Who history, that's for sure. Speaking of the gate, I really hope there's more to it. Seems like such an awfully convenient (and incredibly powerful) device that Torchwood just happened to have. How on earth could the Master get enough power to transform the entire human race? Surely there wouldn't be enough on this planet, assuming the device's power source was converted to take our energy. Bah, too many plot holes.

Still, the last thirty seconds more than made up for it - what an ending! Thank goodness I only have to wait a few more days for part two! I've watched the first scene of the episode and it already looks brilliant. I'm so glad we actually get to see what happened around the Time War. I actually thought RTD was going to try to get away without showing it.

Bring on Part 2!

[davros72 1]

Well, I watched Part One yesterday...

I agree with a lot of the above posts in the more questionable aspects of the episode. I was mostly underwhelmed; it seems RTD is saving everything for part 2. It kinda makes sense, but it felt like very little happened in an hour, which is bizarre because a normal episode is 40 minutes long and often feels packed to the brim. I'd even say I was bored for a lot of it.

The Master's resurrection and subsequent scenes were hardly enthralling; if I'd read in a description of the episode beforehand that the Master could now fly and shoot lightning bolts out of his hands I'd actually think it was a big joke. Anyways, the Doctor's two confrontations with the Master didn't engage me, but at least John Simm can still act the pants off a crazy person. The highlight was definitely Wilf Mott's involvement. Who'd have thought an old man would make a brilliant companion for the Doctor? And Donna's extended cameo was great too - by the looks of it she has a bit more to do next episode which is fantastic! The "mystery" father and daughter seem like useless plot devices to me and have no personalities, but at least the green potential alien allies have something going for them. Who is the woman who keeps contacting Wilf? I hope we actually find this out.

The revelation and execution of the "Master Race" really had me scratching my head and almost laughing. I was positive the Master would use the "Immortality Gate" to resurrect Gallifrey, but instead he just cloned himself 6 billion times. Not the finest moment of Who history, that's for sure. Speaking of the gate, I really hope there's more to it. Seems like such an awfully convenient (and incredibly powerful) device that Torchwood just happened to have. How on earth could the Master get enough power to transform the entire human race? Surely there wouldn't be enough on this planet, assuming the device's power source was converted to take our energy. Bah, too many plot holes.

Still, the last thirty seconds more than made up for it - what an ending! Thank goodness I only have to wait a few more days for part two! I've watched the first scene of the episode and it already looks brilliant. I'm so glad we actually get to see what happened around the Time War. I actually thought RTD was going to try to get away without showing it.

Bring on Part 2!

I pretty much agree with you on most points.  Underwhelmed.  That whole Doctor Who fan thing of "anticipointment".

Hard to say whether actually seeing a resurrection of the Master is any more or less acceptable than a "So you escaped from Castrovalva after all" type of non-explanation we used to get.

Not a big fan of Sylar/Master.  Super-jumps and lightning power from his hands?  Come on.

Those green spiky headed aliens just felt way too much like "Sarah Jane Adventures" characters than "Doctor Who" characters.  

I'm thinking we won't actually *see* anything from the Time War, perhaps some dialogue describing it, but I doubt it'll be depicted on screen.  Could be wrong, though.  

Was fun seeing Timothy Dalton as a Time Lord, though.

And Cribbins is amazingly wonderful, as always.

Getting tired of Tennant's constant coat-billowing dramatic running with big gurning face (shades of Pertwee).   How many times did we see that this week?  Four?  Five?  Felt like a lot.  

I did like the (probably unintentional) fact that the effect used to depict the humans transforming into the Master (the quick headshake side-to-side thing) was quite a bit like what happened towards the end of the McGann TV-Movie when the Master tried to take over the Doctor's remaining regenerations.  Well, "like" is a bit strong, it amused me, would be more accurate I think.

Overall, just OK.  Hopefully Part Two delivers more than Part One did.  

 

[John Crichton 4]

I'm assuming everyone's seen part one by now, spoiler tags be damned.

Hard to say whether actually seeing a resurrection of the Master is any more or less acceptable than a "So you escaped from Castrovalva after all" type of non-explanation we used to get.

That's a good point. JNT was always rather ham-fisted when it came to the Master, it's amazing Ainley was as good as he was. I liked how he referred to himself as the master of disguise, when so many of his disguises in the 80s were totally illogical and were just there so he could have a surprise reveal at the end of part one or two.

I'm a bit surprised by some of the reaction, I for one never found the episode boring. The Master as the human race cliffhanger was way, way too drawn out though, one of the quibbles I could make about the whole RTD era. And I've got to mention this, even though it goes into dangerous territory: why the Obama love fest? Seriously, that was annoying. I get wanting to have some relevant references, but did he always have to be mentioned in such fawning terms?

I thought the Doctor and the Master did have one really good scene, after the Master zaps him and they have a chat afterward about the Master's father's home on Gallifrey they used to visit when they were kids, and letting the Doctor actually hear the drums in his head. It's too bad there wasn't more of that.

[Quintus 5,399]

For the Doctor Who nuts, here's what we in England have been seeing on BBC1 everyday for the last two weeks, before programmes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiOonEF1bXI&annotation_id=annotation_518311&feature=iv

I think fans like Mr Crichton will approve

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

If I didn't know any better John, I'd almost say the Obama references were tongue-in-cheek. Then again, it's a fine line between clever satire and devotion, and it's even harder to tell with RTD...

[John Crichton 4]

It certainly didn't strike me as satire, but I'll think about it that way next time I watch. Might make it easier to stomach.

The initial rating for part 1 is 10 million, which would put it third for the day.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I'm thinking we won't actually *see* anything from the Time War, perhaps some dialogue describing it, but I doubt it'll be depicted on screen. Could be wrong, though.

Seeing as this refers to the as-yet unaired second part, I will spoiler tag it. You have been warned:

The first scene of part two is doing the rounds on the net (just check Youtube) and it's brilliant. It opens with a shot of a burning Gallifrey during the War; destroyed Dalek ships piled up around the Citadel and the big glass orb that surrounds it is partly shattered and cracked. A dramatic President Timothy Dalton marches towards some sort of conference room with other important Time Lords and they discuss the Doctor who is on the run with some kind of weapon that they predict could end the War along with themselves. One of the Time Ladies speaks up about the atrocities of the war; a fascinating dialogue that suggests the participants in the war are doomed for all eternity to be killed and resurrected by time itself in an endless, torturous loop of destruction and death. It's as if Gallifrey itself has been removed from our time continuum to another that cannot be escaped; possibly explaining the "Time Lock" that was mentioned in "Journeys End". The best part about this is that it's actually an intriguing and intelligent idea, and pretty easy to understand. I predict that the Time Lord's return will not be nearly as convoluted as some are saying. Mostly speculation on my part, as it's quite possible the Doctor did end up killing them all (just watch the President's reaction to this moral objection; "I WILL NOT DIE!!"). This depiction of power-corrupt Time Lords is all the more powerful after "The Waters of Mars" and I can't wait to see where it goes.

This two-minute scene is better than the majority of Part One itself, so I for one am getting incredibly impatient for its airing. Only four more days!!

[John Crichton 4]

A dramatic President Timothy Dalton marches towards some sort of conference room with other important Time Lords

The High Council, I'm sure. The woman killed off was probably the Chancellor, they tend to be female.

And the idea of corrupt Time Lords is certainly not a new one. It was a running plot strand throughout the 70s that both the High Council and the shadowy Celestial Intervention Agency (a not so suble nod by Bob Holmes to our CIA) were occasionally using the Doctor to achieve their own ends. And of course there's the fall of Borusa in The Five Doctors.

I've always loved Time Lord stories, and I agree with your analysis MM, I can't wait to see how it plays out.

[Wycket 36]

For the Doctor Who nuts, here's what we in England have been seeing on BBC1 everyday for the last two weeks, before programmes: http://www.youtube.c...8311&feature=iv

I think fans like Mr Crichton will approve

Thanks Quint, but they were actually airing that on BBC America as well. Probably an effort to build hype for Who, as Thursday they're starting a marathon showing all of Tennants episodes starting with "New Earth". They showed enough of the specials last week however, so I don't think any of them are getting repeated but I may be mistaken.

[John Crichton 4]

Well, while we wait with bated breath for the finale (2 more days!), the new Radio Times has some interesting comments from the Moff about incoming Doctor Matt Smith. From The Doctor Who News Page, the former Outpost Gallifrey:

The new Radio Times marks Matt Smith out as one of the ten people to watch in 2010. In the magazine, new executive producer Steven Moffat tells why viewers will be transfixed by Smith's portrayal of The Doctor. He describes him as a strong quiet man who conveys gravitas perfectly. "His most powerful moments are when he is very very quiet. in a way that a very powerful person can be... It's all implied strength rather than demonstrated bluster."

Moffat describes Smith as very much the 'nutty professor' Doctor whom the camera adores. "You'll be seeing a lot of that face, suffering, in close-up."

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

Part one was ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT! It got the show right back to the epic stuff we have come to expect from RTD, and it is certainly the best special since "The Christmas Invasion". The real star of the show, was Bernard Cribbins, with a perfectly nuanced performance. I look forward to his character's resolution tomorrow (no prizes for guessing who Wilf has to shoot...). Donna getting her memory back is a tragedy waiting to happen, and Timothy Dalton brings much welcomed gravitas to the proceedings. As for part two; keep watching, folks, because this should be spectacular!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Watched it a second time and enjoyed it a lot more after I was able to absorb more of the subtler aspects. My previous plot-hole complaint about the power source for the gate was wrong; I didn't catch the bit that said they found it with its own reactor. Anyways, I greatly enjoyed the Doctor/Wilf scenes. The emotion those two men were able to convey in their faces spoke a thousand words about two old men and the prospect of mortality. The Master scenes were even a bit better second time round; though I still prefer the manic and hilarious Mr Saxon from series three hopefully he'll come out a bit more in Part Two now that the Master is "healed".

But the really exciting prospect is President Dalton. Ooooh, I can't wait.

[John Crichton 4]

I've successfully avoided second viewings on all the specials so far, I'm waiting for the DVD release. Or Blu actually, I'll be buying the Blu set. February 2nd here.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

The only thing that would make me buy a box set is isolated scores. Full stop.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'd settle for deleted scenes of the new companion being saucy.

[John Crichton 4]

Oh that's out, it's called Secret Diary of a Call Girl.

[Greg1138 3]

Wow.....those last words....choked up or what!!!!!!!

[Richard Penna 3,687]

That was a truly spectacular ending, and Tennant is going to be badly missed - Smith has one hell of a performance to live up to.

[Melange 446]

Spoilers.

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Watched it. Enjoyable. Usually my main observation (and criticism) of these modern series of Dr Who, is that it seems every episode of it has to be made like it's the ultimate ultimate final final unbelievably dramatic final peak of whatever, which is why I rarely watched these new ones. This one was 'supposed' to be the last (for this Doctor) though,so it got some slack from me tonight. Having Tennant seeming afraid of the change was not a pleasant way to see him go though, for me.

It would have been nice for this popular character to dissapear with that famous smile,rather than with a petrified look and murmerings of not wanting this.

It just seemed that what made him stand out was his confident and chirpy character, and it was rather sad seeing him so 'reluctantly' renew in the way it occured.

That theme tune will NEVER get old. Couldn't resist whistling along

[John Crichton 4]

Were a few tears shed last night? Yes, more than a few, and I'm man enough to admit it.

Thrown together, day after, stream of consiousness thoughts within the Box of Devestating Spoilers, also known as The Box of Rassilon:

The 10th Doctors final words, absolutely hearbreaking. I love how he fought regenerating until the last possible second. It really adds a lot to the end of The Stolen Earth too, why he took advantage of the chance to regenerate without regenerating.

So Dalton (who was brilliant) was playing Rassilon? RASSILON?! My jaw hit the floor so hard I could have drilled for oil. That deserved more screen time rather than just a one line revelation. As did the confirmation, which I've suspected for the last week, that the Doctor did in fact have to destroy the Time Lords on purpose rather than it being the only way to end the Time War.

We never found out exactly who the old Time Lord woman was. I know there's a lot of people saying it was the Doctor's mother, but personally I like to think it was Romana.

It was less of a reset button than I anticipated. I thought the Time Lords would be back permenately and the Doctor would be an exile again. I was also wrong about inspiration from The War Games. I thought that the Time Lords would come back and put the Doctor on trial for his action in The Waters of Mars.

The Master's redemption. Wonderful, and really in the spirit of the way it was concieved back in the 70s when Roger Delgado was going to leave the role before his untimely death. And there was a nice bit of continuity there too: I had always been bothered by the fact that the Master's always heard the drumming, a core part of his character, even though it's not in the classic series. But if it's something that the Time Lords created during the Time War, then it all makes sense. He DIDN'T have it in his head in the classic series, time was just altered so that he and the Doctor think that he did from his childhood.

I caught to "Hell yes, Murray!" moments, I'm sure there'll be more on later viewings. One was a great new arrangement of the series 3 action theme when the Doctor's flying the spaceship. The other was another jaw dropping moment: choral Doctor Forever at the start of the regeneration. My God, if it was possible to crank up the emotion another couple of notches Murray Gold did it.

So "Geronimo!" is going to be the new catchphrase apparently.

Judging by the glimpses in the trailers, Karen Gillan is HOT.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

For the benefit of some members who haven't seen it, spoilers ahead:

Well then. I have to say, that was an incredible summary of Russell T Davies and David Tennant's roles in Doctor Who. The posts further above this page about Russell's writing are now more relevant than ever. The plot was ridiculous. The resolution was far too quick and convoluted. But by gosh was I bawling in that last twenty minutes. From the moment I heard the four knocks, I was welling up and it didn't stop until the credits. Davies has an uncanny gift at writing overly-emotional drama. The more I think about it, the more self-indulgent and sappy that ending was, but for the life of me I can't not love it. It was truly the end of an incredible five-year journey that I have taken with the Doctor, Rose, Jack, Martha, Donna and Wilf and it couldn't have ended better.... Well, I guess the whole plot with the Master and the Time Lords could have been much, much better but I seem to not be able to get past that last 20 minutes. Which brings me to Tennant...

Not much to say about him really, except that he is truly my Doctor. I fell in love with the series when he made it his own during season 2. I'll always remember the intense expressions, hilarious dialogue and the running... All that running. All I can say is that Matt Smith has some incredibly big (stylish, Converse) shoes to fill, but I can't wait to connect with the new Doctor. The prospect of going through a journey even half as entertaining and emotional as Tennant's is an incredibly exciting one for me. Bring it on!

Questions and comments aplenty though; Who is the mysterious Time Lady? My first guess was Rose when she appeared to Wilf earlier in the episode, but the scene at the wedding alludes to Donna instead.

What has become of the Time Lords? Stuck back in the Time War I'm guessing. I really was surprised at this; I thought they would have a bigger role for starters, and that they would be back for good. Still, now that the possibility is there it seems like they could come back at some future time. I'm sure the Moff can cook up a plausible solution, I daresay a better one than RTD had.

Ditto: the Master. Nice double whammy of an open ending!

Martha and Mickey are married? Didn't actually see that coming, but it works I guess!

Would have liked to have seen much, much more of the Time War, but I guess I never will. Oh well!

Geronimo! Is that Matt Smith's "allons-y"?

Haha, John, I think I must've finished the same time as you!

[John Crichton 4]

Yes, I forgot to mention the absolute brilliance of the "4 knocks" revelation.

And it's almost criminal for me not to mention Bernard Cribbins in general. He served a very important emotional role in the story, but man what fun it would have been to have him as a companion for a full series.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I can't even sleep after that one, it's 4:30am here and I'm buzzing. How sad. But really, I don't think I've ever been so invested in a show quite like this. I might feel the same when LOST ends, but I probably won't be a blubbering mess after that one's over.

Incidentally, loving that picture in your signature John! I saw it on another site just before I saw it here!

[Greg1138 3]

Yeeeaaah - I think the entire planet was a bit off with whom they thought the 4 knocks was going to come from!

[John Crichton 4]

I can't even sleep after that one, it's 4:30am here and I'm buzzing. How sad. But really, I don't think I've ever been so invested in a show quite like this. I might feel the same when LOST ends, but I probably won't be a blubbering mess after that one's over.

Incidentally, loving that picture in your signature John! I saw it on another site just before I saw it here!

Thanks, when I saw it on the Beeb's site I knew that was the one.

Honestly this didn't keep me awake almost all night the way the Galactica or Farscape finales did, but that was the end of the whole show and, as big and emotional as this is, it's still just the turning of a page to another chapter as we've done so many, many times over the decades. It's one of the reasons why Doctor Who is the greatest television show ever.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Well I think that's why I haven't suffered the depressing melancholy that the true end of a beloved series brings. What other show can change entire casts and production teams and still be called the same show? When is season 5 anyway? I'm already getting impatient! Haha!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I plan to watch the final 2 parter tomorrow, so I'm typing this while not looking at the screen.

[Quintus 5,399]

It's one of the reasons why Doctor Who is the greatest television show ever.

Whoah there, I'm really please you enjoyed the finale and that it didn't let you down as so often is the case with these things, but let's not get carried away here - everyone knows The Sopranos is the greatest tv show ever made and NOT that corny Beeb kids show

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Question: I watched some of it, but was forced to turn over after about twenty-five minutes. If I didn't like the bit I saw, would I still enjoy it if I watched the rest or should I really need to go back to when Catherine Tate arrived to get better understanding, closure and emotional attachment/resolution? I watched it before then, but that was when I tuned out.

[John Crichton 4]

It's one of the reasons why Doctor Who is the greatest television show ever.

Whoah there, I'm really please you enjoyed the finale and that it didn't let you down as so often is the case with these things, but let's not get carried away here - everyone knows The Sopranos is the greatest tv show ever made and NOT that corny Beeb kids show

Heh, I'm not sure I believe it either, I just felt some over the top hyperbole was appropriate. And I was thinking it would make Joe flip out.

I've hardly seen all TV so I'm in no position to say what the absolute greatest is. That Who is my personal all time favorite, despite my love for Farscape, Buffy, Galactica, etc., there is no doubt.

[Melange 446]

Do other folks remember Cribbins in that creepy early Dr Who movie?

I last saw it a long long time ago, and it was weird seeing him play in the recent series.

I finally looked it up today,and it was Daleks - Invasion Earth 2150 AD from 1966, with Cushing as Dr Who.

looking very young in that film. (using music from Terminator 2 )

and the memory in my mind before finding that clip tonight, was those black and red suits and helmets they wore.