The Doctor Who Thread.....

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Definitely, as is Torchwood! Characters from SJA and Torchwood have appeared in several Dr Who episodes, and Dr Who is referenced in both spin-off shows regularly. Even the old K9 and Company episode from 1981 is considered canon as it explains how Sarah Jane has her own K9 in The Five Doctors two years later!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

The SJA thing was a joke. It was RTD poking fun at the issue, which has a lot of people in a huff since we're so close to the "end" of the Doctor's life.

I tend to think that because of the Time War and the lack of Time Lords about, the Doctor has pretty much as many regenerations as he wants, as there's no-one around to regulate them. It's not going to take much to explain when it happens. If Rusty can sweep aside the entire cumbersome Time Lord mythology with one fell swoop then I'm sure Moffat can do the same with Regeneration (assuming he's still head writer when the time comes).

[Brónach 1,302]

I'd prefer a regeneration limit. 13 is fine.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's an artificial limit anyway.

I bet whoever came up with that never could have imagined that The Doctor will one day reach the limit.

[Wycket 36]

Yeah, its something that needs to be taken care of, though Davies throw away line is of course not the way to do it. In his next regeneration, they should definitely throw the Valeyard into the mix and by the time he is 13, I'm sure they'll have a big long arc about the Doctor trying to survive and cheat death like the Master did. Of course, since the Doctor is the hero, I doubt he'll go the killing people and inhabiting their bodies' route.

[Brónach 1,302]

They would have to look for a motivation for the Doctor to do that... as the latest episode stated, saving himself isn't his style. It would be cool if he managed to survive in a "holy shit I didn't see that coming" kind of way.

On the other hand I maintain that given that the series is designed to never end, an ending would be cool.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yeah, but an ending would just leave the door open for an immediate and complete reboot. One of the best things about the revival is its continuity to the classic series. Strip that away and it's just another action-packed sci-fi kids' show.

[Brónach 1,302]

If it ends we can only hope that they don't reboot it. But I still have this feeling that making the character go on forever cheapens it.

[LongTallJodie 59]

Though RTD's line in "Death of the Doctor" was almost assuredly a throwaway quip to make Clyde shut-up, I'm fairly certain that if they make it to Doctor Thirteen and the show is still popular, they'll figure out away around the issue when the time comes (or they'll simply ignore the issue altogether).

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

If it ends we can only hope that they don't reboot it. But I still have this feeling that making the character go on forever cheapens it.

Really? Cause I'd have thought if that were the case then 40 years on it'd already be cheap. I hope the show goes on forever, quite frankly. The Doctor is a storytelling icon, his stories can be told in an infinite amount of ways, and on an infinite amount of subjects. It probably won't always be popular, or even quality, but which of the best shows always are? If it wasn't for the extended hiatus the show took in the 90's, we never would've got RTD's revival, and Moffat's subsequent "Golden Years" (emphasis and opinion mine, of course).

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Well, I certainly didn't see that coming.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Neither did I. Fun episode! A bit needlessly complicated to follow at the start (it took a long time to even mention the little girl getting shot, and even then we never found out what happened immediately afterwards) but fun.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

It was awfully convoluted - I often wonder if Moffat has too many ideas to fit into such a short amount of time. I suppose it's better than having a couple really poor ideas and stretching them out over two hour-long speicals though.

All in all, I enjoyed the opening two-parter, but I'm ready for some regular one-off adventures for the next little while. All of that arc-moving and drama get exhausting every week!

[Wycket 36]

I think if it ever was a time for two hour long specials it was the last two episodes. The second episode itself could have been a two-parter and the ending felt incredibly forced, as if they ran out of time so let's end things. That last scene was very interesting and definitely could go in a number of different directions. Hopefully Moffat has something good in store for us.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well there's certainly more then enough intrigue to last through the season.

It was awfully convoluted - I often wonder if Moffat has too many ideas to fit into such a short amount of time.

This is nothing new. Remember Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead?

I guess the gay references did not die out with RTD leaving the show

The little girl. We are being pushed into believing it's Amy's child, but I still think it's more to do with River Song.

Really creepy atmosphere in that mansion, and the opening makes great use of the American locations.

The lady with the eyepatch was Frances Barber, right? Rather a renowned actress. I'm sure she will feature in more episodes.

Plot threads still hanging:

The Doctor's Death

The little girl

The space suit, and who was in it when it shot The Doctor

Amy's pregancy/not pregancy

River Song

Anything else?

[davros72 1]

Good part 2. US locations looked fab. Amy looked amazing as always. The orphanage was nicely creepy. The Silents are really cool looking aliens. Rory looked funny in his 60's getup, loved him breaking the model of the lunar lander. Enjoyed the gag about Nixon showing up as a "get out of jail free" card, even though it could've gotten extremely tiresome. Matt Smith continues to amaze me. I completely do not miss David Tennant.

In the end, however, I think it unfortunately leaves too many unanswered questions to be a completely satisfying "part 2 of 2". But hopefully they'll be answered eventually, sooner rather than later.

Especially the last 30 seconds, holy frickin' cow!

I don't quite buy Moffat's explanation in Confidential about the TARDIS from The Lodger showing up here. I think it's less a matter of "See? It all fits together, we didn't forget about that mysterious TARDIS" and more a matter of "We need an interior, let's do the TARDIS from The Lodger and say it's connected." Sorry, I just don't buy it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Did you really think everything would be solved in the second episode?

[davros72 1]

Did you really think everything would be solved in the second episode?

Of course not, not absolutely everything, but the amount of unanswered stuff just seemed excessive this time round.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes I agree, we should all stop watching out of protest!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Having now watched this story through a second time I think it is highly inventive and fun, but deeply flawed. As a two-parter it simply doesn't work on it's own merits. Nothing was resolved satisfacorily, and the deep complexities of the plot seemed purposely contrived, designed more for head-bending than for entertainment. Some of Amy's dialogue was awful. The scene at the end of part 1 where she repeatedly says to the Doctor (who is in a rush) "Doctor, I have something important to tell you. It's really important. Doctor. I have something to tell you. Doctor, it's important. etc etc" I just wanted to shout at the screen "IF IT's THAT IMPORTANT JUST SAY IT!!!"

Steef, you cited Silence in the Library" as being just as complex. True, but at the end of that story everything was wrapped up pretty concisely (with the tantelizing question left over "who is River Song?"). This story left FAR too many questions unanswered. In fact it was so complicated that I had a hard time simply keeping the list of unanswered questions in my head, let alone make sense of them! AND we still don't know who River Song is!

Did I enjoy it? Absolutely. Is it a great two-parter? No. It's much too messy. I give the two parter 7/10

The girl... I really hope I'm wrong on this because she was a terrible character in the original series, but I have a sneaking suspicion it's The Rani. I REALLY hope I'm wrong.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, I doubt this was ever intended to be a selfcontained 2 parter. More a 2 part kick-off of the season, setting things in motion rather then resolving them.

the age of the little girl corresponds roughly to the age Alex Kingston was in 1969. Are we certain River Song is 100% human?

[davros72 1]

I don't think the girl is going to be anyone from the classic series (at least, not anyone that's only been exclusive to the classic series, i.e. has not been brought back in the new series). I think she'll be something new from the twisted mind of Steven Moffat.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree. So far the new series has been care full to bring back characters from the old one (only Sarah Jane springs to mind)

[Brónach 1,302]

I don't know who's the girl, but I'd prefer she wasn't anyone we know.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

the age of the little girl corresponds roughly to the age Alex Kingston was in 1969. Are we certain River Song is 100% human?

But as River kept pointing out during this story, when she first met the Doctor he knew everything about her. and yet when the Doctor first meets the little girl in this story he doesn't know who she is. Unless the first time she ever sees him is on the beach when she kills him. At that point he says to her "I know it's you". Ohh, I'm all confused!!! My brain hurts.

[Brónach 1,302]

I think the last two episodes are the first part of a six-parter including episodes 1, 2, 7, 8, 12 and 13.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But as River kept pointing out during this story, when she first met the Doctor he knew everything about her. and yet when the Doctor first meets the little girl in this story he doesn't know who she is. Unless the first time she ever sees him is on the beach when she kills him. At that point he says to her "I know it's you". Ohh, I'm all confused!!! My brain hurts.

It's all wibbley wobbly, timey whimey!

More unresolved stuff

Why did the Tardis explode?

Were did it explode?

What was the role of The Silence?

[Wycket 36]

While I can understand people being upset about the lack of resolved questions, they definitely give the season/series a great deal of motivation and direction that is an interesting development to me. Sure the Doctor will still have stand alone stories, but having a deep complex story keeps viewers watching and rewards those that do. Also, The Silence are really being built as this big threat and enemy and these are just more ways to build on those ideals (granted, River gunning them all down kind of weakened them a bit). Either way, I can't wait for the mid-series finale as I can't wait to see what going to happen.

[davros72 1]

It's not that I'm upset about all the unresolved questions, more that it just doesn't satisfy as a two-parter, and that there were too many questions left. Having some strands hanging around is fine, but this many? Which leads me to...

I also worry that with the level of season-long story arcs and unresolved questions and internal continuity things that they aren't shooting themselves in the foot like what happened back in the 80s under JNT. The show got soooo internally focused that it was hard for a "non-fan" (i.e., not a hardcore gotta-watch-it-every-week fan) to just drop in and just plain enjoy a Doctor Who story. The strands and story arcs and everything are great, it's incredible television, I'm totally digging the Moffat era much more than the RTD era (and not just because of Karen Gillan), don't get me wrong. I just worry if the not-we don't have enough of an easy "entry point" to just jump on whenever. I hope I'm wrong.

[Brónach 1,302]

An entry point? You mean like 16 episodes ago?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This is a different era, serialized TV is normal now. People have plenty of opportunity to start at the beginning and catch up. I did not start watching the revamped series untill about 2 years ago.

[Brónach 1,302]

I have to say I love how tension can escalate in serialized TV. (Lost anyone?)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or X-Files. Nine years of flogging a dead horse!

But I don't see a 5 year arc coming on Doctor Who anytime soon.

[Brónach 1,302]

Not arcs of several years are necessary to have that effect... I see it like reading Watchmen when it was originally published one chapter every month.

Something that could work with Doctor Who now is independent stories of one season. Moffat seems to be working on arcs of two seasons, probably overlapping them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Possibly. Though so far he has yet to touch certain unresolved arcs from season 5. (The Tardis exploding)

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm not worried about that, it was established at a main plot point in the last dialogues of The Big Bang. Not just forgotten like in that one show.

On a different topic, did anyone else think that Eleventh is awesome with a beard?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Possibly. Though so far he has yet to touch certain unresolved arcs from season 5. (The Tardis exploding)

It's my guess that will come into play in either the mid-season or season finale. Everything seems to be building up to it, even these new mysteries like the Time Child.

[Brónach 1,302]

My initial theory was that the Silence were like the Eternals from Asimov's The End of Eternity, and that they blew up the TARDIS because the Doctor was messing withe their plans, and had no idea of the consequences. But it seems they haven't got time travel, even though they do have a TARDIS.

(Great novel by the way)

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Ouch! Curse of the Black Spot was really quite poor, wasn't it? Overly simplistic plot with OTT silliness, and a completely unsatisfying resolution. The only good thing about it was the lovely Lily Cole. The three principle cast members were all uncharacteristically cringeworthy. Their "chummy" camaraderie and antics was more annoying that entertaining, and came across as being very forced and slapstick. After this episode (and the overly complex and unsatisfying opening two-parter) I am starting to get a sinking feeling about this season. So far:

Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon: 7/10

Curse of the Black Spot: 5/10

Come on guys! You are better than this!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Oh I think you're being way too harsh. It was a fun, standalone adventure episode. Not everything can be a masterstroke of genius plotting. I went in with a view to enjoy myself and that's exactly what I got.

Compared to the likes of "The Shakespeare Code", "The Unicorn and the Wasp" and "Victory of the Daleks" it was positively brilliant.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Maybe I was a little harsh. It was perhaps slightly better that Unicorn and Wasp (since when did wasps buzz with their mouths???) and Victory of the Daleks, but the "chemistry" between the members of the TARDIS crew really grated on me in a way it never has with these three before. I found them all rather annoying, even Matt Smith! Maybe I was in a grumpy mood when I watched it because I wanted to go to Nighttown in Cleveland tonight to hear some jazz and eat some fresh trout but they were all booked up.

By the way, my wonderful wife threw me an amazing party to celebrate my graduation last night. I am now officially a Doctor! Here's a picture of the cake my wife had specially made for me. She's one in a million, and apparently doesn't mind that I'm a nerd! She also bought me a replica TARDIS key!

I also have some amazing friends who clubbed together to buy me a full-scale replica of Tom Baker's scarf from Season 13 (my favourite!), and a beautiful signed portrait of a composer who may be familiar to a few members of this forum. Here I am looking rather stunned and speechless, showing off both gifts:

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

To be honest I think you were in a grumpy mood. A pretty decent, stand alone episode. Nothing brilliant, but nothing to get annoyed about. Interesting combo between POTC and Star Trek. Was actually rather worried they were gonna kill of Rory again.

Some pretty good music, interesting too see how the Pirates Of The Caribbean music seems to have become the "cliché pirate music" now.

Frances Barber again, interesting. Next week's teaser....interesting.

[Greg1138 3]

Mmm....enjoyed this one - not up there with the best but I must admit I was surprised with the explanation of the "ghost"....the Smith era never fails to keep me guessing....and yes, teaser looks - tantilising! I thought we had seen the back of the Ood in The End Of Time - didn't see where else they could go - clearly Moff had other ideas.....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well an Ood was featured in the season 6 trailer, so it's no surprise. And they are one of the most interesting creatures from the RTD era.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I certainly wasn't a fan of the Ood in Journey's End, so hopefully the next ep will redeem them for me. As nice as Planet of the Ood was, I always thought they made better monsters than anything.

Frances Barber's appearances are creeping me out. I shivered when she turned up on the ship.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How is this season going to be divided? Seven eps now, Six eps later this year?

[Melange 446]

Well an Ood was featured in the season 6 trailer.

Oh, I see.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oy vey!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

How is this season going to be divided? Seven eps now, Six eps later this year?

Yes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Damn we are almost halfway already!