The Doctor Who Thread.....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The 11th Hour

Felt an irresistible urge to go back to the beginning of the Matt Smith era.

This extended episode has a somewhat similar feel to The Christmas Invasion, and indeed a similar purpose. To sell a new Doctor to the TV audience.

The story and plot are fairly simple compared to most Stephen Moffat written episodes, basically there are Prisoner Zero and Atraxi, but they are just tools for the main purpose, establishing the new Doctor, his new compagnion and start up a fresh story arc.

The fairy tail aspect works very well, Moffat has always been good in finding scary concepts based on childhood fears, and The Crack In The Wall is exactly something that would worry any small child.

By having The Doctor appearing in Amelia Pond's life at a young age, and then (sort of) breaking his promise to return in 5 minutes, Moffat cleverly sets up a relationship between them that will pay off rather beatifully.

Amy Pond is the best, most interesting compagnion since Rose Tyler. Caitlin Blackwood sets up the character brilliantly in her younger years as a precocious, brave but hopeful girl who is let down badly, leaving the older Amy Pond, played by Karen Gillan to have an emotionally difficult , rather fierce young woman who must be the regular talk of the town in Leadworth. (continuing with the premise from the RTD era that The Doctor's companions usually come to a sticky end)

Karen Gillan is already pitch perfect as an Amy. My favorite moment is when The Doctor asks her to just believe for 20 minutes.

After spending more then a year setting up the death of the 10th Doctor, making it seem like a upcoming clamity of devastating proportions, David Tennant chances into Matt Smith, and lo....It's fine. It's better then fine actually.

From the moment Smith appears from the upturned TARDIS in Amy's back garden he has a firm grip on the role.Like Daniel Craig in Casino Royale, he own his character.

Smith has a natural gift for broad comedy (The fish custard is bit is hilarious), young looking, but somehow with old eyes, and we totally believe he would make such an impression of Pond (the young and older version)

Of the other characters, only Arthur Darvill would return as Rory. (funny that back in the day we thought Jeff and his grandmother would be recurring)

The new TARDIS interior looks good, somehow warmer then the RTD one. Funny that we never see any of the other rooms.

This one looks great in HD (though the CGI actually looks a bit more ropey) I love the lens flare during the "tie in car-door" scene.

Murray Gold tones down his music a little bit. It still has the same nervous energy when called for. The more soft, lyrical passages involving young Amelia are very beautiful. I Am The Doctor would become the signature piece for the next 2 series. Very different in nature to his themes for the previous 2 Doctor's, this a an exciting "call to action" type theme that's brilliant conjuring up the heroism of The Doctor without going into full heroic fanfare mode.

Direction is solid, though a bit clunky during some of the action moments, which don't have that fever pitch pace from the RTD era. (the action scenes in the last 2 seasons haven't been that great).

Introduces the new players, sets up an arc for them, gets the viewer emotionally invested. It does everything it needs to do, very...very well.

[Brónach 1,301]

That one had me hooked right from the start with the crash in the garden and the music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Question for veteran Who-fans.

Before the revamped series, was The Doctor ever such a powerful force that who civilisations have their own mythology about him, and armies fled by the mere mention of his name, or is that something that is mainly a feature of the RTD and Moffat era's?

Did The Doctor ever get in any kind of romantic relationship, or did his companions ever fall in love with him?

Has his companions been predominately female?

Moffatt is brilliant at writing individual complex stories that manage to wrap up beautifully at the end, like the aforementioned Girl in the Fireplace,

Not the biggest fan of that one. Probably for the same reason why we are complaining about some of the Story-arc aspects of season 6. Too much packed into too short a time. His 2 parters in the firsts season and in season 4 are brilliant though, as is Blink.

or the incredibly well-done Silence in the Library 2-parter. I just think he needs to stop holding too many plot points over in story-arc fashion, because he doesn't seem to be very good at coming back to them and concluding them in a satisfactory manner, if he comes back to them at all.

Noticed another goof. In Flesh and Stone The Doctor and River discover more about the Cracks in time, and figure out that the explosion will take place in 2010. River seems mystified by all this. ("and for those of us who can't read the base code of the Universe").

But ofcourse at the end of the episode we learn that this version of River (the oldest we have seen in the Moffat era up untill she visits Amy at the very end of The Wedding of River Song) has already been though all that, and knows all about it.

She could have been pretending to be ignorant of course, but....

[Wycket 36]

As for the Doctor's companions, they've been primarily female though usually there was at least a male and female throughout the sixties. The last male companion prior to the new series was Turlough during the early 80s. As far as being a force to stop war, that is a strong no. Most of the time the Doctor is ridiculed as being crazy as very few people in the galaxy know who he is prior to the new series (maybe Moffat wants to go back to this considering the season 6 storyline). And a big no for any kind of romantic relationship, as the first companion he kissed is predictably during his 8th incarnation during the FOX tv movie.

As for River, she can't completely emasculate the Doctor can she? She was talking to Amy about having to lie just like the Doctor so I assume that this type of stuff is what she is meant to be referring to.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Question for veteran Who-fans.

Before the revamped series, was The Doctor ever such a powerful force that who civilisations have their own mythology about him, and armies fled by the mere mention of his name, or is that something that is mainly a feature of the RTD and Moffat era's?

Did The Doctor ever get in any kind of romantic relationship, or did his companions ever fall in love with him?

Has his companions been predominately female?

As a proud Who veteran I'll answer to the best of my memory.

The Doctor was never the powerful force he is now during the classic series. At least hardly ever. Towards the end of the rather poor Sylvester McCoy era the Doctor started implying he was rather more important and God-like than a regular Time Lord. At one point he says "I'm much more than just a Time Lord". It all seemed like a desperate attempt to breathe a little mystery and life into a dying show, though. I believe it was the idea of scriptwriter Ben Aaronovich to try and get people interested in the show again. Of course the show was axed before the idea could be developed any further. The only other time the Doctor has had a huge destructive influence on other ciivilizations is in the story "The Face of Evil" from Tom Baker's era. The TARDIS lands on a planet where an enormous face of the Doctor is carved into a cliff wall, Mount Rushmore-style. Turns out that the Doctor had previously visited that planet several thousand years earlier and fixed a computer by giving it part of his own personality. After the Doctor left, the computer proceded to go bonkers and set itself up as a ruthless God that demanded to be worshipped.

The Doctor never had romantic relations with any of his previous companions, although he did become very close with both Jo Grant (3rd Doctor era) and Sarah Jane Smith (4th Doctor era). When those two companions left, the Doctor was clearly very sad to see them go.

Yes the companions have been predominantly female, though there has been a small but significant number of male companions, especially in the 60s. In fact one of the longest-running companions was male: Jamie McCrimmon from the 2nd Doctor's era. Other male companions were Ian Chesterton, Steven Taylor and Ben Jackson (1st Doctor era), Harry Sullivan and Adric (4th Doctor era), and Turlough (5th Doctor era). Also worth mentioning is the Brigadier who, while never specifically being a companion, was very much a regular good-guy on the show during the 3rd Doctor's era.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I suppose the "Mighty Doctor" thing started with The Doctor ending the time Way, destroying the entire Time Lord race and making him the only one of his kind.

[Brónach 1,301]

I never liked that. Well sometimes I like the "last Timelord" side of things which can work like in The Doctor's Wife.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

A word about The Doctor's companions, etc:

Since both K9, and Chamelion are voiced by male actors, does that make them both male companions?

The Brigadier is most worthy of being included in the "companions" ilst, as he travelled in the TARDIS, and is the male companion to play opposite most Doctors - 6 out of 11 - with Sarah Jane Smith playing opposite 7 out of 11. If we are including The Brigadier, then we must surely include both Sergeant Benton, and Captain Yates.

Can Sara Kingdom be properly called a companion?

The whole "more than a Timelord" thing, came, if memory serves, from a deleted scene in "Rememberence of the Daleks", where The Doctor says to Davros "I am much more than JUST a Timelord". This plot strand was to have expanded upon in subsequent series, but it never happened.

Both The Daleks, and The Draconians refer to The Doctor as "the oncoming storm", but I can't remember exactly where.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This plot strand was to have expanded upon in subsequent series, but it never happened.

It sort of did.

For reasons still unknown The Doctor ended the Timewar by destroying the Timelords and almost destroying the Daleks, and timelocking the events. So Russel T. Davies took that small concept from the McCoy era and ran with it.

Just watched the 3-parter Utopia/The Sound Of Drums/Last Of The Timelords. The middle episode is utterly brilliant apart from 'Here Come The Drums" playing over the invasion of Earth. The other 2 parts are really not that good, but have great stuff in them.

So in a way the Moffat Era and the RTD one have some of the same issues.

[Brónach 1,301]

I also like The Sound of Drums, it's great fun, very adventurous.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A pity the story ends so silly.

[Wycket 36]

To me the first two parts were really good and set up an interesting story. Then The Last of the Time Lords came and ruined all of that.

While Moffat may be reusing a lot of ideas for his episodes, he has yet to disappoint me as much as RTD did again and again starting with that finale.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah its rather preposterous.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

This plot strand was to have expanded upon in subsequent series, but it never happened.

It sort of did.

For reasons still unknown The Doctor ended the Timewar by destroying the Timelords and almost destroying the Daleks, and timelocking the events. So Russel T. Davies took that small concept from the McCoy era and ran with it.

Just watched the 3-parter Utopia/The Sound Of Drums/Last Of The Timelords. The middle episode is utterly brilliant apart from 'Here Come The Drums" playing over the invasion of Earth. The other 2 parts are really not that good, but have great stuff in them.

So in a way the Moffat Era and the RTD one have some of the same issues.

It's also debatable that "Genesis of the Daleks" was the Timelords "opening gambit" in the Timewar. As I said: it's debatable...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Aliens Of London / World War Three

Steals not one but 2 aliens from Men In Black and combines then to form the Slitheen. The story is very typical of a big RTD 2-parter. A ridiculous plot, lots of clever in-jokes, the whole world watching while aliens threaten to invade.

The production values already look very chinsy and dated compared to Doctor Who today. Visually it also looks very flat and uninteresting.

It's fun though, nice seeing Tosh from Torchwood. The Slitheen look hilarious (I can understand why they were not used very often though in the rest of the series).

Best part of this 2-parter is the beginning, Rose accidentally returning a year to late, to a Jacky that thinks she has been kidnapped.

Wonder what long-time fans thought of the farting?

The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances

Much more like it. The first Moffat story, and it's a good one. (Moffat will re-use elements from this in later stories though)

Eccleston is such a great Doctor, a bit forgotten by the forces of Tennant and Smith. Billy Piper is the iconic companion from the RTD era and looks great with her Union Jack T-Shirt.

Good acting across the whole board, from Barrowman as Jack Harkness, to Florence Hoath as Nancy, haunted by an unearthly child. The tone is far more grown up then Aliens Of London / World War III, much better looking visually too and parts are genuinely spooky. And the resolution is a great tearjerker.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Dead Planet/The Survivors/The Escape/The Ambush/The Expedition/The Ordeal/The Rescue.

Barely better then the first serial. yes the Daleks are cool, but this serial is painfully slow, not very well acted, with characters as dull as dishwater.

[Wycket 36]

Yeah, after watching the Cushing movie which was adapted from this serial, it became painfully obvious how padded this story is. It would have been fine as a four parter, but 7 episodes is just way to much. That being said, it is the Daleks' first story and therefore has a soft spot in my heart, but definitely not their finest hour.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I fully accept that in the early 60's TV was much slower and much less sophisticated, certainly in England. But this was ridiculous. Instead of just going to the Dalek city, they discuss is and mull over it, They seem to spend about 15 minutes just getting over a cliff.

I was at first going to complain about the Thals and their perfect Recieved Pronounciation, but since i accept the Aliens in Star Trek speaking in American or English accents, I can't really complain here.

Kinda funny seeing The Doctor defeat a Dalek by letting it drive over a n overcoat.

Victory Of The Daleks.

Clearly designed to get the annual Dalek episode out of the way and undo some of the damage caused in the RTD era (The Stolen Earth never happened it seems). Winston Churchill is a complete parody of the thing, always issuing dire predictions about the war, champing a big cigar. But no real depth to the character. London during the Blitz here does not seem as real or frightening as it did in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances.

The whole things seems like a parody of British resolve during the Blitz, rather then the real thing. Like Dad's Army.

Some cool things though. The Daleks in Army great with a Union Jack on them. Love the way they scream WOULD-YOU-LIKE-SOME-TEEAAA!

In the end The Daleks survive, as they are supposed to. I hope Moffat will one day do a GREAT Dalek episode. I did love how he managed to make a single, stone Dalek a big threat once again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Tomb Of The Cybermen

Patrick Thoughton is a far more interesting Doctor then the first one. I can see why Matt Smith took him as an inspiration.

The acting a production design are as amateurish as ever, with the Cyberman looking really lame. But the pacing is OK. It's really fun to watch.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Steef, I admire you doggedly sticking to your exploration of the older stories. I know you're finding them a little hard-going and slow, but please don't give up before you try these couple:

Jon Pertwee: The Daemons (it's really creepy and atmospheric)

Tom Baker: The Seeds of Doom (my personal favourite, and a cracking story with some really quite horrific moments, provided you cut the BBC effects some slack)

Tom Baker: The Pyramids of Mars (A real classic!)

Tom Baker: The Deadly Assassin. (Another cracking story)

Peter Davison: The Caves of Androzani (Doctor Who at its most bleak and apocalyptic.)

My DVD of Sarah Jane Adventures series 4 just shipped from the UK and should be arriving any day now. I never saw these during their original run so I'm really looking forward to it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Spearhead From Space

Pertwee as the third Doctor, far more dashing and debonair the the cranky first and bumbling second versions. The story is fun, filmed with a bit of zest.

Doctor Who And The Silurians

Had to give up on this one, it's just too slow and boring. The writing is really ackward. The Doctor returns to and from the cave several times, we get the same scenes over and over again of the director of the powerstation issuing dire warnings to the Brigadier (who seems straight out of Monty Python).

Did notice that The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood reuses many aspects of this story.

I'll try The Deamons next

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Daemons

Fun, but not actually very scary. My first episode with The Master. Delgado is great with that creepy, demanding stare. I can't make up my mind if Nicholas Courtney is taking the piss or playing his character straight?

The Second Doctor is very rude and ill-tempered here. Jo Grant is very beautiful, but inconsquential. I like the atmosphere. the odd kind of "wickerman" yokels. The boorish archaeologist clashing with the dashing BBC3 presenter.

Non of it is very memorable of very original though.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

The Brigadier is definitely a comic character, but he works because Nicholas Courtney plays it straight. As a result he became kind of comic relief, but in a rather endearing and sincere way. I don't think it's surprising that the character became a fan favourite both during the Pertwee era and in the decades afterwards until his death earlier this year (he appeared in an episode of Sarah Jane Adventures a couple of years ago).

Daemons: I love the build up of supernatural menace throughout the story, but especially in episode 1. We get a feeling of suspense and spookiness without ever really seeing any monsters, all through atmospheric music and a few signposts spinning round! Great!

Delgado's master will always be the definitive one for me, though John Simm comes bloody close.

BTW, bit of trivia: A viewer actually contacted the BBC after watching the final episode to complain about a church being blown up for the episode. Silly viewer, apparently they couldn't tll it was a model.

[Wycket 36]

I know a lot of fans who grew up with the show love the Brig, but I personally can't stand him. Courtney himself has never a strong actor (he got better in his one-off appearances later on IMO) and the character is so stupid that its infuriating. He sees all this otherworldly and supernatural stuff yet always is dismissing it as hogwash and acting like a person whose dealing with these type of situations for the first time. This continues throughout the Pertwee era and bugs the hell out of me and more than contributes to the reason why I find the 3rd Doctor my absolute least favorite.

If you're looking for a good story in this era I recommend "Inferno". The Sg-1 episode "There But For the Grace of God" and the Season 1 finale borrows more than a little from this story and is quite a good story in my opinion. All the characters work better in this story than any other IMO, and considering the story, I suppose its a funny idea. Beware, its another seven-parter so it might be a chore to get through. If you like Delgado's Master, The Claws of Axos is a good take on "The Day the Earth Stood Still" concept of an alien ship landing on Earth. Plus, its only a four-parter so more manageable if you're finding this era difficult as I do.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Unlike Pixie I did not find Daemons that scary. And seeing the Doctor driving thats silly car is just wrong. The Third Doctor does not seem very alien. (in Spearhead From Space you can even see his tattoo.)

Maybe it's time to move over to the one with big curly hair, a silly scarf and big teeth.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Now you're talking.

However, if you want to give Pertwee another shot (and Wycket had a good suggestion with Claws of Axos), I can recommend The Sea Devils. It's another attempt at doing a sort of Silurians episode (the Sea Devils are supposed to be marine cousins of the Silurians), but the atmosphere and pacing are MUCH better.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Btw, I watched a few clips from Death Of The Doctor (Sarah Jane Adventures)

I know this is mean, but they should not have brought back Jo Grant.

Liz Sladen still looked great even when compared to how she looked during her stint in Doctor Who in the 70's.

The actress who played Jo Grant didn't....

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Some Who companions still look great. Lis looked wonderful in the Sarah Jane Adventures. Nicole Bryant (Peri), Mary Tamm (Romana 1), and Wendy Padbury (Zoe) all still look terrific. It'd be fun to see them return in Who at some point. Not all at the same time. That would be weird.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

HAPPY 48th. BIRTHDAY, DOCTOR!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Lis looked wonderful in the Sarah Jane Adventures.

She looked like she melted.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Lis Sladen didn't look a day over 40 during that show, I don't know why you'd say her face looked like it had melted... Unless you were referring to Katy Manning?

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Great quote from Moffatt on his Twitter page:

"To clarify: any Doctor Who movie would be made by the BBC team, star the current TV Doctor and certainly NOT be a Hollywood reboot. David Yates, great director, was speaking off the cuff, on a red carpet. You've seen the rubbish I talk when I'm cornered"

Now that's extremely promising!

[Brónach 1,301]

Great.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Great. I'd love to see Matt Smith on the big screen.

It would have to be big though. Bigger then the specials.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Amazing news! Two more missing Doctor Who episodes have been recovered! Episode 2 of The Underwater Menace, and Episode 3 of Galaxy 4. A real Christmas Present for Doctor Who fans!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2011-12-11/doctor-who-two-long-lost-episodes-uncovered

[Kevin 22]

I have the Series 4 of Doctor Who by Murray Gold. Is that the best one?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

My personal favourite is Season 5. It's a lot less over-the-top in general, and has a fantastic whimsical tone to it to reflect the fairy-tale theme of that season.

4 is very solid though, if just for the Voyage of the Damned medley and the season finale music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

My favourite tracks of the season 4 CD are A Pressing Need To Save The World, The Greatest Story Never Told and The Doctor's theme.

Voyage Of The Damned is good too. Love The Doctor Forever statements from it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

DOCTOR WHO---companions Amy Pond (Karen Gillan) and husband Rory (Arthur Darvill) will leave the series after the upcoming Season 7 to make way for a new companion. Steven Moffat said, "The final days of the Ponds are coming during the next" [season]. I'm not telling you when or how, but that story is going to come to a heartbreaking end. Then The Doctor will meet a new friend. The show will miss the Ponds, brilliantly played by Karen and Arthur, but the great thing about DOCTOR WHO is its ability to change."

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2011/12/dwn161211002512-end-of-line-for-ponds.html

Odd, i got the feeling that they finished up with the Pond's in the end of season 6 already.

[Wycket 36]

Yeah, I still don't understand the ending of The God Complex if they were going to keep showing up. I like Amy and Rory, but this is veering into Rose territory with Moffat not able to let them go.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Apparently there is going to be a tragic end again. Why do these companions always end up bad?

[Richard Penna 3,670]

I have the Series 4 of Doctor Who by Murray Gold. Is that the best one?

In terms of the quality of some of the pieces, yes. But it's also worth checking out the season 1+2, which has lots of small cues and hence loads of variety.

And the season 6 OST is about to come out, and my first listen will be on the 25th

[davros72 1]

Thoughts on this year's Christmas special, anyone?

I enjoyed it. Much less timey-wimey than a lot of other Moffat episodes, even though I like timey-wimey stuff it's nice to have a break. Love Matt's child-like Doctor. Loved the little references to previous episodes. The last few minutes were very sweet. All in all, not the greatest Christmas special ever, I don't think, but still very, very good.

The wait for next season is gonna feel interminable...

[Brónach 1,301]

I'll make time one of these days to see it, I had forgotten about it

[Wycket 36]

This episode was not a great episode, but I think the kind of episode that was needed following a rather dark season.

I didn't like the opening bit (felt a little too RTD for me, and I hate when Moffat does this stuff) but overall I liked the episode. Not a lot of running around but just I nice story about family and survival. Felt a lot like a Davison era story to me in a lot of ways actually.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

I was - and this is not a word that I usually use when I talk about "Doctor Who" - bored. There, I said it. The episode was boring. It was full of too-clever-by-half clowning around by Smith, too many secondary and tertiary characters with nothing to do, and an ending that spat in the face of The Doctor's character. He does not, not, NOT go off travelling for 2 years and then pick up where he left off! Ill thought out, and emotionally moribund, this episode is easiest the worst thing with the words "Doctor Who" attached to it that I have seen in a very long time. The sooner the current doctor regenerates (along with the production team) the better.

I might just skip series 33.*

* Just kidding.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I thought last year's was better. I agree that this one seemed a bit boring in places, and it seems like Moffat has something in his contract that requires him to write him a relentlessly comical and almost irritating 5 minute sequence toward the beginning of any episode he writes. If it wasn't for the fact that I find Matt Smith so damn charming and likeable, I'd find it unwatchable. Instead he has this strange ability to make me love him.

I tell you what though, despite all that I found myself tearing up at the resolution. Maybe it's a Christmas thing... but the tears flowed. So it couldn't have been too bad. Just wish Moffat would stop relishing so much in his own writing. He's best when he's economical and gets straight to the point.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nice special, funny, busy, with good performances by Smith and Skinner. Good music. I enjoyed Murray Gold stealing a bit of Jerry's Alien. The ending was sweet.

It did have some of the same pacing issues that season 6 had. Too much crammed into too short a time. Strange really, because it's a very simple story.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

Not brilliant but I enjoyed it.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

I thought last year's was better. I agree that this one seemed a bit boring in places, and it seems like Moffat has something in his contract that requires him to write him a relentlessly comical and almost irritating 5 minute sequence toward the beginning of any episode he writes. If it wasn't for the fact that I find Matt Smith so damn charming and likeable, I'd find it unwatchable. Instead he has this strange ability to make me love him.

I tell you what though, despite all that I found myself tearing up at the resolution. Maybe it's a Christmas thing... but the tears flowed. So it couldn't have been too bad. Just wish Moffat would stop relishing so much in his own writing. He's best when he's economical and gets straight to the point.

Agreed. It makes you think that the last episode was written by the same man who wrote "The Empty Child/"The Doctor Dances"...