The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Brónach 1,302]

Yeah, but he means all the times that the Doctor does succeed. Which has actually become a plot point lately.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

Yes he does succeed, but at what cost? Companions leave him (often against their will - Adric, Sara Kingdom, Sarah-Jane Smith, Donna Noble, Amy and Rory) and sometimes his "success" costs him another regeneration. The Doctor knows that, eventually, he will be alone, and at the end of his regeneration cycle. That's not success, it's a curse.

[Brónach 1,302]

Yet after all that the show still feels upbeat.

I think it's the premise that causes that, it's so simple yet you can get so much out of it. After all these episodes, you can still thing on hundreds of ideas the show hasn't done.

The TVtropes page on Midnight has a good look at what's going on. My favourite part was when the passengers are upset that The Doctor seems to somehow enjoy what's happening to Sky because it's interesting and new.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

The Asylum episode was flawed. The dinosaur episode was bleh. The western episode felt completely disconnected, irrelevant, too formulaic. The episode with the cubes had a nice idea but the execution was terrible and it made no sense. The episode with the Angels was good, although a bit dramatic for the sake of being dramatic. I enjoyed the next two. The Snowmen again became formulaic but enjoyable. The one with the wifi was good ("my mobile phone" lol), although not perfect. Akhaten was a good mesh of everything good and everything not good with Doctor Who. Cold War was... I dunno. Hide was good, again it felt like it was about something and it had some nice scenes and a bit of a sense of wonder. Journey to the Center of the TARDIS was a magnificent idea ruined by the writing. I don't feel compelled to see the latest one but I'm curious about Gaiman's episode and Moffat's finale.

I liked what they tried to do with the Angels episode, but the plot holes are endless, and the effort of trying to make logical sense of it all dampened the emotionally charged ending somewhat.

The wi-fi one - average. Entertaining, but nothing new, storywise.

Cold War, Ahkaten and Crimson Horror lost me completely. Couldn't even tell you what the story was behind the latter two.

I rather liked Hide, Journey to the Centre of the Tardis and Nightmare in Silver - they had some more interesting ideas behind them, and while still heavily flawed, felt the best executed to me.

I'm a little concerned about how much they can stuff into The Name of the Doctor, given that it's focusing on two mysteries (his name, and who Clara is), and the season 5 finale felt very rushed.

[Wycket 36]

At this point, I think that the two mysteries are intertwined. If you watch the BBC trailer for the episode (which I'm sure you did considering your location) there's a give away that they might be interconnected for longer than either may be aware of.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVENT SEEN SERIES 7!

Went through season 7 just now.

In many way it is similar to season 6. In the good and the bad.

It still has an unrelenting pace, especially in critical episodes. The writers either explain things far to haphazardly, or don't explain them at all. Motivations of minor characters are often left in the dark.

It often feels like they film and edited a 60 minute episode, then remembered the show is 45 minutes long and cut a bunch of stuff out last minute.

This is not only confusing plot wise, but also means that the episode's often don't build their emotional climaxes well enough. They just...happen and we are supposed to cry (like The Doctor and River getting married in the last season)

Russel T. Davies may have had his faults, but he knew how to build his emotional climaxes!

Specific issues:

The bad!

Farewell of the Ponds.

When it finally happened it was quite effectively done and heartbreaking. But why did it have too? The Ponds story arc basically finished last season anyway.

The only reason why they are basically in this season is because Moffat wanted a big emotional cliffhanger mid-series.

Also it's beginninbg to get a bit old. With the exception of Marthe Jones, all his important compagnions departures have left The Doctor with deep emotional scars, feelings of guilt, remorse etc... And when the Pond go, again The Doctor is withdrawn etc etc... Untill he meets his new girl, and it's all Ok again.

River Song

She appears twice in season 7. And once again Alex Kingston is in great form.

But in The Angels Take Manhattan I don't even think it's explainied properly how she came to be invlved in the story. She just appears. Another issue I had was that the after all the stuff in season 6, she barely acknowledges either Amy and Rory, and vice versa.

In The Name Of The Doctor she appears again. But this time she is long dead. So it's the River after Forests Of The Dead. Since River remembers the events. But there's is no way plausibly that THAT version can be there in the story,a nd they don't even bother to come up with an explanation.

The point of River and The Doctor's relationship is that they meet in different parts of their own lifes, and that's a great idea. But it's such a mess now.

The last ep od season 6 make us think The Name Of The Doctor would be the big arc in season 7. While it was full of "Doctor...Who?" jokes, it was actually only really brought up in 2 eps, and ultimatly nothing was dione with it.

It's like the exploding Tardis in Season 5. A big mystery never resolved or hinted upon again.

The Great Intelligence is the main villain in this season. Apparently The Doctor fought him/them before. Maybe fans of the Classic series will know all about the background, the motivation etc... Virtually none of it was given this season.

That may be the big problem. Moffat, most of his writewrs are lifelong Doctor Who fans who have lived a breathed this show. They know every planet, every creature and revisit old aspects in way's obvious and subtle. And probably pat themselves on their backs for being so clever.

It's fine if they wanna reference the old show, old characters, etc...But for fuck sake, explain them properly in the current series too!

I have watched the re-vioved series all the way through, most of it more then once, I have a decent understanding of Doctor Who lore, and even I'm struggling to tie this stuff all together. It feels like a huge expensive fanboy fest too much of the time. An excliusive club, inpenetrable if you don't know all the nuances.

For a casual viewer I can't understand how any of it makes sense?

The good!

Matt Smith is still brilliant as the Doctor. The only one I've seen so far who manages to feel both young and old at the same time.

Gillan and Darvill were in great form once again, even though they had no real arc this season. They will be missed.

Coleman is good! Introducing her in Asylum Of The Daleks was a good idea.

She bring her own specific energy to the role as Compagnion The mystery surrounding her was interesting. Though now that that has been solved I hope they will actually focus more on her as a character.

Special effects were rather good in the first part of the season, but took a quality dive in the second part. Maybe a budget thing?

I like the trio of Madame Vastra, Jenny and Strax. Yes I know it makes no sense at all. A female Silurian somehow living in Victorian England with a human wife and a dimbwitted Sontaran. (Imagine explaining that to a casual viewer of the show???) But it's actually weird and fun in a good way. And they are used effectively (you should not kill jenny and bring her back to live through...)

The cliffhanger of the John Hurt Doctor. apparently one between the 8th and 9th. (though since that's not stated in the actual episode, that might just be a ruse)

I can't wait till November!

Overall series 7 was more satisfying then 6. And a bit less frustrating, but not by much. It depends too much on cleverness rather then just telling a story in an organic way. (why did A Town Called Mercy have a female narrator?)

Still, I'll be there for series 8!

[Wycket 36]

Apparently the narrator was supposed to be the little girl at the end. Personally, I hate the idea of a narrator for Doctor Who, and Moffat seems to use it whenever he thinks an episode needs a boots (see Cold Blood), but personally, I feel its very unnecessary.

As for the Great Intelligence, its an elder God similar to the Guardians from the 4th/5th Doctor era and Fenric from the 7th Doc's era. He was involved in the two Yeti stories in the Second Doctor's era. As a big Troughton fan I didn't blink at his inclusion, but I did feel it was a bit under-explained for modern fans.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes I know she was supposed to be the little girl. But...that girl has no role in the story at all. Why put a narration there of a character who we have no connection with?

The GI didn't feel very threatening or interesting. Why was it trying to capture human should from the wifi? That was never really explained.

Why did it hate The Doctor sooo much that it wanted to kill itself just to destroy him?

I mean for the audience of modern Who, they met once! Really poor dramatic writing there.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Apparently the new Doctor will be announced next sunday.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

How's that a spoiler?

[Jay 37,346]

It's not.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You don't even watch the show!

[Jay 37,346]

Does that make my statement false?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It doesn't make it right!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

At last, a grown-up is back in The TARDIS!!!!!!!!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

LOL just saw him in World War Z like 2 hours ago.

I remember him most of all in the Torchwood 5 parter Children of Earth as John Frobisher. He was excellent!

[Quintus 5,399]

I've never actually seen Capaldi in anything, but I know his role in The Thick of It is a bit of cult here, almost legendary even.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Seems like a fine choice. Though I was rooting for Sue Perkins!

[Wojo 2,453]

I only know him from WWZ, though he looked very familiar when I saw him. I haven't gotten that far in Torchwood yet. I'm optimistic for the upcoming episodes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Moffat does like his Doctors gaunt and skinny, doesnt he?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The RTD era had plenty of issues too.

Season 5 was as close as we have come to a "perfect" season.

I like Clara so far. But she still feels so new

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

I've never actually seen Capaldi in anything, but I know his role in The Thick of It is a bit of cult here, almost legendary even.

Watch "Local Hero".

[Richard Penna 3,683]

How's that a spoiler?

Well it means the doctors going to regenerate soon

Yes but it's been publicly announced. Unless you avoided the internet completely, you'd be hard pressed to not find out.

---

This is going to be an interesting change from The Thick of It and I'm very curious to see how he handles a more humorous role.

Also, I'm not truly familiar with any doctor pre-Eccleston, so an older Doctor could take getting used to.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[Wojo 2,453]

He looks like he could be Tenant's dad. Or Ten himself when he gets a little older.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes actually.

So with John Hurt's Phantom Doctor appearing out of thin air, will Capaldi be known as the 12'th or 13'th Doctor?

Is it me or has Peter Capaldi's credit for World War Z suddenly taken a prophetic turn?

[Wojo 2,453]

Yeah, people pointed that out and it's ironically clever. They just leave out the next three folks who played the other W. H. O. Doctors. The Italian, the Ethiopian woman, and the German. Nope, the white Scotsman gets the job. Out of that group, no surprise.

Oh, I had totally forgotten that Capaldi was also in Pompeii when the Doctor and Donna came to visit.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Those other people have nothing to do with it.

You obviously don't get the point.

[Wojo 2,453]

I do get the point. It's not prophetic in the least because those other people have the same WHO Doctor credentials. They just don't meet the ethnic requirements to be the last Time Lord.

It's like if you said four people were credited in a movie as "dead guy." If "dead guy #1" kicks the bucket, should "dead guy #2" get his affairs in order? No. Not prophecy. Cute coincidence. Next.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You said it was ironically clever. But it isn't. It's simply a coincidence. The word irony doesn't apply.

[Wojo 2,453]

We need another group definition of the word it. The joke is ironically clever. Pointing out the coincidence is ironically clever. Seeking meaning in it. Believing that it's prophetic is just lunacy. But we have no shortage of moonbats here.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Are you American? Because you guys have no understanding of irony.

[Wojo 2,453]

Sorry. I'll tighten my wooden shoes, see if that helps me think like you.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The point is that the situation is not ironic in any way, certainly not how you described it.

It's just a fun coincidence that you have sucked all the fun out of

[Wojo 2,453]

I think we're done here.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree Wojo The Joke Killer!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

Ha! Never saw "WWZ", but his character sounds wierdly prophetic.

Peter Capaldi wil be known as The Doctor. The Doctor is always known as The Doctor. It's the fans, media, etc. that attributes a numerical sequence to him.

The answer to Steff's question is: he is the 12th Doctor.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We will have to see right?

I mean we have a John Hurt Doctor now

[Wojo 2,453]

Johnny Cash hurt, too.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

We will have to see right?

I mean we have a John Hurt Doctor now

My guess is that John Hurt is an older version of an already-seen Doctor, after all, he was brought in after Eccleston said "no, ta". He could be the The Valeyard.

Peter capaldi is definitely the 12th Doctor.

My other guess is that Eccleston is coming back for the 50th bash, despite what we have been told.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Scathing article about series 7 and Moffat.

http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/steven-moffat-destroyer-of-hopes-and-dreams

[Wycket 36]

Scathing article about series 7 and Moffat.

http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/steven-moffat-destroyer-of-hopes-and-dreams

More a butthurt fan who's upset the new Doctor isn't a minority or a woman. Boo hoo. Why are people so set on the idea that the Doctor can be any gender? One throwaway line in The Doctor's Wife? What's wrong with a man playing a male character? In this day and age, people seem so hell bent on breaking these male conventions, yet god forbid you mention a male playing a normally female role. Just irks me the wrong way. There are male characters and female characters. The Doctor is a male, and until a woman plays him that is simple.

As for the few Season 7 comments, basically the reviewers wanted the Doctor to mope around the whole season about losing the companions, because that worked so well in Season 3....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In the case of The Doctor I would absolutely like to see him regenerate into a female.

[Wycket 36]

It would probably have to be a pretty damn good actress, as she'd be scrutinized for everything she did. Joanna Lumley in Curse of Fatal Death spoof had the right idea IMO. At this point, I just tired of the PC brigade arguing for changing all these iconic characters to females like they were clamoring for a Jane Bond before Craig took over. If Alias was brought back and Sidney Bristow was a dude, everyone would be up in arms and that would be madness, yet the opposite and you're decried as sexist. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But the whole point about the Doctor is that he can be played in different ways by different people. We've had 11 males, a female would be interesting.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'm not sure that putting the Doctor into a woman's body would be effective.

Let's use another example of science fiction regeneration: the Trill from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. (The Goa'uld in the Stargate series are a very similar concept.) A long-lived species is implanted as a symbiotic parasite into a host body, and lives a lifetime in that body, amassing knowledge and experience. When the body dies, the symbiote is placed into a new body, to preserve the knowledge and gain new experiences. The cycle can continue for centuries, but the privilege carries a few immovable ground rules. While friendships from previous lives can be kept, physical relationships must be ended; the penalty is exile, which basically will end the life of the symbiote when the host dies.

As it happens, the character who guides us through Trill society is Dax, who lived as a man as Curzon, and as a woman as both Jadzia and Ezri. The show uses Dax's gender changes as a plot device for some same sex kissing, to stay hip in the 90's, but also to show that Trill society worries far more about the past lives taboo than the gender taboo. (Yes, I realize the gender change was introduced with the Doctor Crusher Trill episode of TNG, but the Trill weren't as developed then.)

What's the point of this? We know that Trill commonly change gender, but we haven't seen it with Doctor Who yet. If the Doctor regenerates into a female body, what does this say about gender relationships and biological reproduction of the people of Gallifrey? Does he have any life experiences being a woman? He's been very comfortable presented as a man by eleven men for fifty years. Would they retcon a regeneration before the Doctor became the First Doctor? Or does instinct kick in and she's Ok? Otherwise, a female Doctor is just a woman playing a man in drag, which seems lame.