Should Warner Bros do a GL?

[Dean1700 4]

I was just curious as to what everyone would think of a Special Deluxe edition of Superman and Superman II. Should they replace the now outdated effects in favour of digital compositing and CGI effects and finding the longest possible print of each one that includes all delete scenes?

I know that I am an original Star Wars fan who doesn't like the tampering that George has done with HIS film but I'll also admit that some of the new effects looked pretty spekky (love the blast off of the Falcon). Should Warner Bros do the same?

BTW any update MUST include JW's missing cues.

I'll say yes to this.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

No. Give Donner the chance to try and recreate his original vision for Superman II, but don't mess with the FX.

[Luke Skywalker 1,284]

YES

j/k

[MrScratch 292]

Superman is a classic, it was a perfect movie then as it is now. Superman II is an entertaining movie if you don't look too closely at it. I would very much like to see Donner revisit SII and complete it the way he wanted to. No new digital effects, ie. nothing that couldn't have been done in 1980, just a digital cleanup. The effects should be redone to match the wonderful effects in the first film, which still hold up.

I doubt Williams would want to revisit Superman but perhaps he could pen a new theme or two and have someone else write a new score that would incorporate the original Superman themes and the new one(s).

Apparently, there is an entire Superman II out there that has never seen the light of day, except for the Hackman footage that Lester couldn't refilm.

Jeff

[JoeinAR 1,759]

I cannot imagine why anyone would say yes. If you've seen Superman , no need to qualify it with a number, on dvd, then you know that the extra scenes just destroy the timing of the movie. Worst of all are these two scenes, the addition to the leaving home sequence, which just cuts John's awesome track in half, and the bizarre hug sequence after the big resue night. I am all for Superman's original soundtrack to be restored to its original parameters, not the horrible tampering that was done. The film restorative work was fine, as the original film stock had aged poorly.

I would say yes to allowing Donner to try to recut Superman II, but I couldn't say yes in this poll. I cannot understand anyone's reasoning to say yes. They are make a new movie, let that one stand on it own with modern effects, the 78 version does represent the time, even though its voice is timeless.

Next please do a poll asking if the original King Kong should have updated effects.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I was just curious as to what everyone would think of a Special Deluxe edition of Superman and Superman II.

Oh, this is gonna be fun.

-Ross, who thinks the effects aren't exactly what date these movies, but isn't afraid of renewed editions either.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

I've never seen any of the sequels, and I found Superman to be an ok movie at best (I really liked the part before he came to Metropolis though). So I really don't care.

Marian -

[fommes 126]

Yo.

I mean Nes.

[Lurker 5]

Superman - The Movie and Superman II should be left alone. They were completed in 1978 and 1980 respectively. I'm not convinced the DVD of Superman - The Movie represents a directors cut, since so many of the scenes feature tracked music. This suggests to me that these scenes were cut prior to scoring, meaning there was no studio interference, it was just a marketing thing in 2001. See new, restored scenes in Superman!

The picture restoration was very well done and it was nice to see them re-time a handful of original shots so that colors matched between shots. I've seen this restoration on film many times, and it's stunning how good this movie looks on the big screen.

The sound needs to go though.

So for now, it almost seems that a "GL" has been pulled on Superman - The Movie. They've made a good movie almost unwatchable for those that love the original because of added superfluous scenes and the sound mix from hell.

I don't think you'll ever see a Donner re-cut of Superman II either. There were several sequences in the movie that Donner never filmed, so it would always be a compromised version of Donner and Lester footage. I do think all of the scenes Donner shot for II should be issued on video though. It would make for a fabulous supplement.

And when Warners gets around to re-issuing this deluxe version of Superman II, maybe they can use the original 6-track mix on there to make a 5.1 track. The 2.0 track on the current DVD sounds positively wimpy.

Neil

[John Crichton 4]

I'm a supporter of the Star Wars SEs, but to this I say no. Remaking Superman II to Donner's original vision would be near impossible. There's a lot more work to do than Robert Wise had to do to fix Star Trek: The Motion Picture, for example.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

The only cut of Superman: The Movie I ever knew before the DVD was the Extended International Cut, so you can imagine I was very disappointed the DVD wasn't as long. The DVD isn't bad, I just want it longer.

I can tolerate Superman II as it is, but I would love to see Donner's original vision.

[MrScratch 292]

Superman - The Movie and Superman II should be left alone.  They were completed in 1978 and 1980 respectively.

For a film preservation-ist I'm surprised by this. How can you say that (about Superman II) after saying this...

We really were robbed, which is why I get so depressed if I watch Superman II.

Superman II was not completed in 1980, it was thrown together from Donner's leftovers and sewn together on a penny-pinched budget. We will never have a true Superman II the way Donner would have made it, but why not restore it as much as possible?

I don't think you'll ever see a Donner re-cut of Superman II either.  There were several sequences in the movie that Donner never filmed, so it would always be a compromised version of Donner and Lester footage.

Have you ever seen the restored Metropolis? Whatever footage was lost they used title cards to describe the scene. And some of the restored footage is much grainier than the footage found in all prints of the film. But you know what, it's a great film, much better than the butchered 90 minute print. And although some of the celluloid is missing, Fritz Lang's vision is ALL there.

Why not a similar edition of Superman II? It can only improve on the 1980 version. With restoration technology as great as it is and with the DVD market, why not reconstruct Superman II as close as possible to Donner's vision. There is nothing wrong with the Lester footage, aside from that fact that it is not Donner's. It shouldn't be widely released as a special edition or directors cut (because it's not), just a reconstructed version aimed at fans of the Superman. Imagine a DVD, where you can watch Superman II using only Donner footage, title cards and storyboards OR you can watch the movie that incorporates Lester footage to fill in the gaps.

What if some, but not all, of the cut footage was found from The Magnificent Ambersons. Should we not be able to see it in the context of the film as Welles originally planned? As a film lover I think these artists are owed this much, they're work should be preserved and appreciated even if it is incomplete. I'm more than willing to use my imagination to appreciate what the final film would have been. Simply including cut footage as a DVD supplement isn't enough.

Jeff

[Lurker 5]

Whether we like how it was done or not is irrelevant. Superman II was completed in 1980, and that's all there is to it. We can never see a Donner version simply because the raw materials are not there.

And Metropolis works with the cards because it's a silent movie. We're already reading text to describe dialogue and locations. I don't see that approach working on a sound film.

And Drax, you poor guy, suffering with that 3 hour bloated version of Superman. It's an interesting curiosity, but it's not Superman - The Movie.

Neil

[MrScratch 292]

I've seen many a DVD (of sound movies) where deleted scenes, alternate openings and alternate endings are reconstructed using remaining footage, title cards and storyboards. And they are quite watchable and enjoyable. In the case of Superman II, there is an abundance of alternate footage in addition to the released version. Title cards probably wouldn't even be necessary.

It might not be 100%, but there is enough to craft a watchable, enjoyable recontstructed version of the film. It may be a 90% work-in-progress cut of the film, but why not? Have you ever seen the Beauty and the Beast unfinished print? Different circumstances, yes, the film was still being completed but this cut was actually shown to audiences. The point is, that incomplete cut of the film was a resounding success. The audience was able to appreciate and enjoy an unfinished work because enough of it was there to see how good it eventually would be. They were not distracted by this or that incomplete shot.

If there is enough of Superman II there to see what Donner had in mind, then why not enjoy it? Should Donner's work on the sequel just be discarded as a mere curiosity in the what-ifs of film history? Why does the crafting of a film automatically end for you in the cutting room and scoring stages at the time of production? If it didn't meet that deadline, then it doesn't belong in the film! That is a very narrow-minded way of thinking when we are talking about art. And yes, movies are definitely art.

Jeff

[JoeinAR 1,759]

Maestro, you forget one thing, Superman II is a Richard Lester film.

this has nothing to do with a deadline, this was a creative decision from the owners of the film, not the director. I would love to know the whole story, because we have only gotten a partial story.

I also would love to see as an extra the Donner version of Superman II edited as best as possible, but not released as a film itself, it would be incomplete, and as an oddity exciting but it would leave us wanting more no doubt.

[krosstj 0]

Never saw the big deal with the Superman films. They bore me.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

then why reply to a thread that is about a film that bores you.

[MrScratch 292]

Maestro, you forget one thing, Superman II is a Richard Lester film.

Who refilmed stuff Donner already filmed. Not to mention there is still Donner footage in Richard Lester's film. No Joe, Superman III is a Richard Lester film.

this has nothing to do with a deadline, this was a creative decision from the owners of the film, not the director.

All the more reason the original director (who should not have been fired) should be allowed to finish his work, as best he can.

I also would love to see as an extra the Donner version of Superman II edited as best as possible, but not released as a film itself,

I don't think it should be released as a stand-alone film either. But the work should be done restore/reconstruct the Donner film and put it out on DVD labeled as such (a reconstructed edit), maybe as part of a Superman collection coupled with the 1980 version. I'm not talking big theatrical release here, I thought I made that clear.

it would be incomplete, and as an oddity exciting but it would leave us wanting more no doubt.

...and the 1980 version doesn't leave you wanting more??

Jeff

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Superman II simply isn't worth the effort of such a restoration.

[Lurker 5]

Maestro, you forget one thing, Superman II is a Richard Lester film.

Who refilmed stuff Donner already filmed. Not to mention there is still Donner footage in Richard Lester's film. No Joe, Superman III is a Richard Lester film.

If a Superman II restoration were to happen there would still be Lester footage in Richard Donner's film. No Jeff, Superman - The Movie is a Richard Donner film.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,759]

and the 1980 version doesn't leave you wanting more??  

it just leaves me wanting to throw up.

I remember how this film was almost universaly praised as a great sequel, when I never thought it was.

Parts of it I like, I think the acting between Reeve and Kidder is just fantastic, I think the story is muddled and confusing. The love story works but the action adventure parts do not, I do like Clark's revenge on the bully, but worst of all I hate the toupe on Marshall as President. Bald is better.

[MrScratch 292]

If a Superman II restoration were to happen there would still be Lester footage in Richard Donner's film.

Through no fault of Donner. Remember when I said...

Imagine a DVD, where you can watch Superman II using only Donner footage, title cards and storyboards OR you can watch the movie that incorporates Lester footage to fill in the gaps.

...sigh.

Jeff

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

And Drax, you poor guy, suffering with that 3 hour bloated version of Superman. It's an interesting curiosity, but it's not Superman - The Movie.

I never suffered with it. I really liked it.

[MrScratch 292]

I'm not that crazy about all of the footage scene here, but if nothing else the Clark and Lois scene should be added back to the film and the kiss of forgetfulness should be removed.

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/index1.htm

Jeff