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This Article Gets it Right! (Star Wars Related)


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Lucas claims that no critic ever loved his intergalactic serial

That's exactly what the fans wanna hear. How convenient for him and especially the fans to forget that with Star Wars and Empire he was hailed as a god.

?Every time there?s a possibility of a dramatic climax, a chance to engage the audience emotionally with something awesome, [the director] trashes it,? she wrote. She called ?Jedi? ?an impersonal and rather junky piece of moviemaking.?

That's the reason why in 1983 a tear rolled down my eye when I sat in the theatre watching ROTJ. I spotted it immediately. Star Wars was no more.

Yet the early films had plenty of room for humor, romantic yearning, dramatic engagement.

Which made them less cold and not so bland. Also, beneath the action, Star Wars and Empire created "myth". The prequels are only tearing it down.

Dialogue from the early movies is certainly less than Shakespearean, but many phrases have entered the language.

The article doesn't mention the great dialogue Yoda had in "Empire". I think Yoda's lines have entered the language more than "?Leave that to me,? ?You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.?

A good article, Neil! :wave:

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Alex Cremers

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Some people hate EVERY Star Wars movie, so who cares if some people like two and hate the rest or vice versa. I know some who hate Star Wars (A New Hope), prefer the revised versions of the OT, and some even like AotC the best of the 5 that are out right now. Granted, some of the same people I knew who liked AotC most didn't really care for the previous 4, so in the end, it does't matter. Some I know like SW and ESB the least. They are movies with great scores... love 'em or leave 'em. Writing all of this about liking one and hating another is kind of over-done.

-Chris, writing about his over-done argument too. :wave:

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Some people hate EVERY Star Wars movie, so who cares if some people like two and hate the rest or vice versa. I know some who hate Star Wars (A New Hope), prefer the revised versions of the OT, and some even like AotC the best of the 5 that are out right now.

So what? Some people like Battlefield Earth. It's a big world! There's always some crazy bloke who likes the unlikable. But unlike the prequels, there is no real consensus that says that Star Wars and Empire are the worst of the "saga". I find it worthy of notice that Star Wars freaks like Chris fail to see the value of valid arguments. There are some core matters, basic film principles in which the prequels fall short. I guess the prequels are made for the Star Wars freaks and not for movie fans in general.

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Alex Cremers

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What many Prequel freaks also seem to ignore is that many of those who are very vocal about their dislike for the prequels went to the cinema in 1999 in excitement, glad that after all these years there was finally a new Star Wars film.

I wanted to love TPM, i desperatly tried to love it, but in the end there was nothing to latch on too.

I wanted to believe AOTC would correct all the errors Lucas made in TPM and that he would finally deliver the goods.

But again....

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What many Prequel freaks also seem to ignore is that many of those who are very vocal about their dislike for the prequels went to the cinema in 1999 in excitement, glad that after all these years there was finally a new Star Wars film.

I wanted to love TPM, i desperatly tried to love it, but in the end there was nothing to latch on too.

I wanted to believe AOTC would correct all the errors Lucas made in TPM and that he would finally deliver the goods.

But again....

You are very right to say those things. I was one of those who wanted TPM to be good. I felt like a child when I first saw Williams' video clip on MTV. It looked so promising!!! I came out of the cinema liking only two scenes.

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Alex Cremers

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Darth Maul and Qui-Gon duel in the desert:

The music! The style and the movements of Ray Park. The surprising speed of the attack and fighting. The end shot of Darth Maul while he shuts off his lightsaber.

The final typically chopped up duel between Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan and Darth Maul:

Fantastic opening shot with the appearance of the Sith! Great menacing atmosphere all around! The style, the movements of Ray Park. The closing and opening of the energy doors! The waiting! Qui-Gon death! Obi-Wan's dramatic scream! McGregor's rage and determination to kill Maul!

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Alex Cremers

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Darth Maul and Qui-Gon duel in the desert:  

The music! The style and the movements of Ray Park. The surprising speed of the attack and fighting. The end shot of Darth Maul while he shuts off his lightsaber.

That scene was good, I actually wished that was a bit longer (they spend 30 minutes on Padracing and they shortchange you on the first Jedi versus Sith lightsaber fight.....)

The final typically chopped up duel between Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan and Darth Maul:

Fantastic opening shot with the appearance of the Sith! Great menacing atmosphere all around! The style, the movements of Ray Park. The closing and opening of the energy doors! The waiting! Qui-Gon death! Obi-Wan's dramatic scream! McGregor's rage and determination to kill Maul!

It's pretty good, but the music edits kinda ruin it for me.

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So Lucas didnt need to make an exodus through Film companies to make his first movie then?

And what about the Oscars point? We all know Lucas' and Hollywood do not get along well and it is notes in the Academy awards. TPM losing is a crime, and AOC argueable. in 1999 there was not a movie that had SFX as good as TPM.

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I actually wished that was a bit longer (they spend 30 minutes on Padracing and they shortchange you on the first Jedi versus Sith lightsaber fight.....)

It would've been much more interesting if they showed us some Padméracing.

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Alex Cremers - thanking Stefancos for the inspiration

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I guess the prequels are made for the Star Wars freaks and not for movie fans in general.

And that's just it. Star Wars was made for movie fans. So was Empire. The rest have been made for Star Wars fans.

My favorite line of the article was, "The only one of the ?Star Wars? movies to receive an Academy Award nomination for its screenplay, the original 1977 film remains a model of streamlined storytelling." And some dare to call it boring.

Neil

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You know in recent years following TPMK I had felt Lucas had lost it with TPM that something had happened between ROTJ and TPM that ruined the series.

However, the more I look back on it I realize the ground work for Lucas taking the SW series downhill was laid in ROTJ and I am talking about more than just Ewoks here.

The way Vader/Anakin just magically "returns" to goodness and is instantly forgiven for everything always bothered me. This is a guy who not 5 minutes beforehand was talking about using his own daughter as a pawn of evil. Yeah sounds like a guy with "good" in him. I just hate the black and white view of SW morality.

ITs like BAM! One minute you are on the good side and BAM next minute you are on the bad side and BAM you're back again. Come on!

That is too one dimensional. Hell, MArk Hamill in an interview years ago reportedlt told Lucas on the set of ROTJ he felt the ROTJ story was weak and too simplistic. Lucas just told him "Hey its a fairy tale". Somewhere between ESB and ROTJ Lucas lost his creative vision. I mean you know when Mark Hamill (who is not exactly known for his deep complex roles) is telling you your material lacks depth you need to add some more dimensions.

Its been a problem ever since. I still feel ROTJ is a good film. It lacks behind the first two butit is worthy of standing bside them. Unlike the Prequel Trilogy. Some might say I feel this way for nostalgia's sake because I feel for ROTJ since I grew up with it. However, its more than that. There was still some of that magic from the first rwo movies in ROTJ. Some of the chessyness of the PRequels too but enough of the magic was still left over to give an accetpable if extremely lacking finale.

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Luke, the article is talking about critics, not Hollywood producers, film studio's and members of the Academy of motion picture arts and sciences.

That's another debate.

The article says that the prequels have not been awarded with any award.

I know what the article is talking about.

I just was pointing what it wasnt talking about, which i think was left deliberately.

Lets say that if we SW fans want to heard that SW and ESB didnt go well with critics, purists also do not want to heard no film company wanted to do that movie in the 1st place, and was only made with much effort from Lucas, and dangerous investment from FOX

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Yes very dangerous, but that's no longer so.

There's no real danger financially in making the prequels, since they are gonna make a profit no matter what.

Even to this days the prequels have not fully sullied the reputation of that 1977 film, and it watching over that franchise, like a good fairy. ;)

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Man you know I just gotta tell all you folks. I am really amazed at where this series has come and gone to since 1977.

In many ways the saga of the course SW series and its fans has been every bit as enthralling as the original movies themselves were.

Hard to believe it!

Its even more hard to believe its really all coming to an end in just over another month.

I wonder if ROTS will REALLY be the last SW film. I am willing to bet its not. Somehow, someway SW will make it back onto the screen within our lifetimes.

MARK MY WORDS!

PRepare yourself in 2020 for: Star Wars - A New Hope - The Remake!

Yes, ladies and gentlemen it could happen after Lucas dies.

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Lets say that if we SW fans want to heard that SW and ESB didnt go well with critics, purists also do not want to heard no film company wanted to do that movie in the 1st place, and was only made with much effort from Lucas, and dangerous investment from FOX

Cool, I like hearing those things. It was a time Lucas still had the eye of the tiger.

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Alex Cremers

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I just want to see the SW sequels happen. With a different director and writer.

I mean come on I would kill to see Mark Hamill wield a lightsaber on screen one more time.

I dunno exactly what the plot would be but it could make for a damn cool movie if done right.

Yeah ... I know. It'll never happen and it probably was not a good idea anyway, but I can dream dammit!

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You will have the Purists and the prequel lovers againt you...

Who me?

I dont see why those two groups would be against me.

IF anything PRequel lovers would want more of SW and Purists would want to see a SW film more like the original trilogy.

What better to give both audiences what they want then a full fledged sequel trilogy? Seems like ir makes sense to me even if it isnt very practical.

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I mean come on I would kill to see Mark Hamill wield a lightsaber on screen one more time.

That's a great idea! I think the audience would stand up and applaude. Who would he fight with?

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IF anything PRequel lovers would want more of SW and Purists would want to see a SW film more like the original trilogy.  

That cannot be done. The point is that there we not made in the 80s!

I do not want sequels that ruin the EU.

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I mean come on I would kill to see Mark Hamill wield a lightsaber on screen one more time.

That's a great idea! I think the audience would stand up and applaude. Who would he fight with?

How about a storyline where Luke embraces the dark side and kills Harrison Ford's Han Solo out of revenge for Ford having a more sucessful career than he had.

It would be perfect! Luke kills out of envy just like his father did and for rrying to take his woman Leia away from him.

Sounds good to me. You could end it with Luke taking his rightful place as the new Emperor with Leia at his side.

Now there is a finale worth a damn!

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Anf they can include boring wooden Ford too, in an attempt to revive his career.

Han with earring, now THAT'S a rebel!

;)

He would have to have his own daughter from Leia as his love interest in the new movies. Since its now a requisite for Ford that he must be with a woman less than half his age.

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Anf they can include boring wooden Ford too, in an attempt to revive his career.

Han with earring, now THAT'S a rebel!

;)

He would have to have his own daughter as his love interest in the new movies. Since its now a requisite for Ford that he must be with a woman less than half his age.

INCEST!

Now THAT is Star Wars!

;)

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Damn right it is!  

Oh and what about Lando?  

He would have to come back too!  

Maybe he and Chewbacca could spark up a romance.

Lando has to a lowlife alcohol drinking nobody, sitting only in darkly lit bars. And nobody would believe he ever "owned" a town in the skies.

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I actually have to agree with George, who cares what the critics think, if I as the director was happy with the movie I just made.

Now as a fan, its a whole 'nother ball game.

and the whole adjusted for inflation bullcrap when no one can actually state the formula. :roll: If it were true, E.T. would be ahead of Star Wars, because the ticket price difference between 77 and 82 was nearly insignificant. Oh and Star Wars gross should not reflect the Special editions, as they are a new and different film.

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I actually have to agree with George, who cares what the critics think, if I as the director was happy with the movie I just made.

Trust me, he cares. It's a natural reaction to say you don't care when critics attack you. I read too many interviews to believe otherwhise. The fact that he says they never liked him is an act of bitterness. Being acknowledged and admired is always a pleasant thing. George is just lucky that his movies have generated enough freaks to ensure his income. He's happy to have the freaks. He would be more happy if the critics also admired him.

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Alex Cremers

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George is just lucky that his movies have generated enough freaks to ensure his income. He's happy to have the freaks. He would be more happy if the critics also admired him.

I agree. Plus, that is just one funny comment. :)

Neil

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Well, with the 60 minutes interview he admitted it bothered him but that he had to make the films how he wanted or something like that.

It would be interesting to have a more scientific survey of what the reviews were at the time of Star Wars. Something like the RottenTomato meter (the rating is high now but its pretty much all reviews after the fact). I like the article but it seems too ancedotal to be convincing. Roger Ebert disliked AOTC but he liked TPM, for example, so he?s probably not the best spokesman to support the author?s case.

While I think the reviews were probably better than the prequels, it wouldn?t surprise me if there was quite a bit of critical reaction at the initial release of Star Wars. So there may be something to what Lucas is saying. I know that the films don?t work for me like they used to and there?s a large percentage of the population that never got into these films at all - females, to a large extent, for example. Even the people involved didn't realy anticipate the chord that Star Wars would strike so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of critics missed it too, initially.

RotJ is the most controversial because, as the author admits, the film did in fact make a lot of money and I suspect audience satisfaction was pretty high if they were measuring that kind of thing back then. And to the extent that fans have pretty strict and often different expectations about what a true Star Wars movie would look like, there?s bound to be some backlash.

I remember looking at some old ESB reviews saying that the fun was no longer there from the first film, etc., etc. And I could sort of see where the critics were coming from though I disagree with the conclusions. And my sister said the only real human emotion she felt in TESB was generated by a non-human, Chewbacca, as he comes to the aid of Han. There again I could sort of see her ironic point about the depth of the Star Wars characters even if its my favorite movie of the series.

So there ought to be some critical reviews to the original triology that refelcts different perspectives - the films seemed sacrosanct as a child but I don?t think they?re THAT good. But, yes, they?re better than the prequels, IMO, so I guess if that's his main point, I would agree.

- Adam

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Please, this article is really lame. If it proved something, it is that some critics have liked the first two movies of the OT, nothing more. It is so weak that it sounds like some frustrated fanboy wrote this. Cmon........

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Please, this article is really lame. If it proved something, it is that some critics have liked the first two movies of the OT, nothing more. It is so weak that it sounds like some frustrated fanboy wrote this. Cmon........

I guess you're a fan?

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You know, I love Jurassic Park. I watched it when I was 9, and it literally changed my life. It's the reason I'm in Film School right now, and it defined the kind of movies I would love later in life. I was obsessed with that movie for three years - made me a fan of Spielberg, John Williams, dinosaurs (a hobby I dropped with time), etc.

When I was 12, The Lost World came out. I was giddy like a schoolboy (which I was, actually) when I walked into the theater. I so wanted another Jurassic Park ... But I hated the movie, you know. It was anything except a Jurassic Park sequel. Spielberg's lowest, I think to this day. Some people love it, some think it's better than the original; the majority thinks the original is better. But at the end of the way, I was a kid without my Jurassic Park again. But you know what? I got over it. And life is just much better this way. I can even watch The Lost World and have fun with it.

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