Horner's Top Five

[Guest]

I know this is a Williams board, but ever since I bought Braveheart last weekend, I've been wondering what the general consensus on it was.

Personally, I think it's a lot better than anything Jimbo's done lately, but not as good as the old stuff.

Here's my top five:

1. Star Trek II

2. Apollo 13

3. Rocketeer

4. Willow

5. Braveheart

[Romão 2,274]

I only have a score composed by Horner, The Name of the Rose (becasue I love the book so much), so I can't make a top 5.

Romão, who really never gave Horner a chance.

[stewdog1 50]

Titanic is no where near my top five.

My top five in no particular order:

Braveheart - he should have won the award for this one.

Star Trek II - Oh how I would love a complete release to this one.

Rocketeer

Apollo 13 - Same as ST II.

Glory

[NickMahon 0]

Are we forgetting Legends of the Fall, possibly his best score (and one of the top 25 of the 90's, IMHO).

[Guest]

Don't have it Legends. What's it taken from, mostly?

[bruckhorn 105]

Off the top of me head (in no particular order):

Star Trek II

Brainstorm

The Rocketeer

The Land Before Time

An American Tail

The most recent one you'll notice is Rocketeer. These are all back in the days when Horner knew how to use all of the orchestra. Field of Dreams is a close sixth, despite the use of the Japanese Flute. Listen to the End Title from Apollo 13 and then listen to the End Title to Star Trek II. Notice the difference in the accompaning figures. Apollo 13 is a peddle tone. Star Trek II has figures instead of the drone.

As for Legends of the Fall as much as I enjoy it, listen to the Revenge track and then listen to Revenge on the Braveheart soundtrack. And think: the same orchestra played both pieces. I'd be embarassed to pull that kind of manuver with the London Symphony Orchestra.

bruckhorn

[stewdog1 50]

Listen to the End Title from Apollo 13 and then listen to the End Title to Star Trek II.  Notice the difference in the accompaning figures.  Apollo 13 is a peddle tone.  Star Trek II has figures instead of the drone.

bruckhorn

Could you please explain this to me. I'm not sure that I follow you.

I'd be embarassed to pull that kind of manuver with the London Symphony Orchestra.

bruckhorn

That hasn't stopped him before.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I like Aliens, Titanic, Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, and Field of Dreams.

[Guest]

Horner's Top 5:

5. Aliens

Hugely influential, one of the greatest film scores of all time. Used in countless trailers.

4. Field of Dreams

The most beautiful score of the 80's.

3. Cocoon

Stunning melodies and orchestration. One of the most influential scores ever written.

2. Glory

1. Titanic

The perfect score. Even Williams can't top it.

[Guest]

Braveheart, The Mask of Zorro, Apollo 13, Star Trek II and Willow.

1. Titanic

The perfect score. Even Williams can't top it.

I am sorry I just have to comment on this. First off, the Titanic score is good but overrated. It has some amazing work by Horner, some of his best, but too much of it rips off Braveheart. There was no place for irish/celtic music in this score. Bagpipes were totally out of place. Trying to cash in on the celtic trend if you ask me.

[Guest]

There was no place for irish/celtic music in this score.  Bagpipes were totally out of place.  Trying to cash in on the celtic trend if you ask me.

Really. So how do you account for the fact that the Titanic ship was built by the Irish, and virtually all the 3rd class deck passengers were Irish and Scottish?

[Miz 139]

It doesn't matter. It still makes it an overated score. John Williams can and has topped it many a time. I consider it absolutely ludicrous that someone could think the Titanic score is better than E.T. or ESB.

Surely Willow has to be in everybodies' top five? I wish I had the Aliens one, it sounds as if it's great. Anyone think not? I need a balanced opinion before I purchase.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

1. Braveheart

2.... um... I really don't have a 2nd fav... :twisted:

And I simply must disagree about Titanic. In my film score CD collection, I rate it as one of the worst. Don't ask me why... I just hate it. And I'm not a Horner basher, and I thought that Titanic (the film) was a good (but overrated) movie. I just think the score is poor. The Perfect Storm may be the only worse that I have...

Braveheart is unbelievable. But I don't care for anything else the guy has done. I've given them all a listen... just don't reach me.

[KittBash 282]

1. Star TrekII - the first Horner album I listened to and thought I had

found another GREAT composer to listen to.

2. The Rocketeer - The only Horner album other than Bravehart that I

want!

3. Apollo 13 - Love this score! Just wish there had been more on the disc.

4. Mask of Zorro - Bought this and was a little scared because I don't

usually buy Horner albums without doing research! (eg.

did he copy himself, will it bore me to tears! etc...) But

I loved it Brilliant

5. Braveheart - I may not have this one but I've heard it! I'd like to know

where Horner pulled this one out of! He may not be

brilliant all the time but sometimes he gets a spark that

shows off something special.

I do have to say that I've felt like being a horner basher a time or two! I've given the score to Titanic more chances than I can count but I just can't make myself like it! There are of course other scores than these that I've liked but I usually steer clear of Horner in genral with those few exceptions.

Brian99_1 - because of this thread has pulled Apollo 13 out of storage!

[AMVANQUISH007 1]

Personally I rate Williams/Horner and Goldsmith as my favorite composers,but if i was to rate Horners top 5 it would be:

1) The Rocketeer for its soaring crescendos

2) Star Trek 2-best scifi horner although Aliens comes close.

3) Titanic-for a simple yet powerful and understated score

4) Batteries Not Included-for the use of a dynamic jazz score(and the Cocoon films)

5) Willow for impressive use of the LSO with a superb rustic score

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

Legends of the Fall is incredibly great and touching and Aliens is a must have (either original or expanded). Very diverse of each other and very very good scores they are. I am not a Horner fan but I couldn't do without these two especially.

[Justin 2]

1. Glory

2. The Rocketeer

3. Legends of the Fall

4. The Land Before Time

5. Aliens

Who also like Krull and Willow.

Justin

[Figo 2]

5. Aliens  

Hugely influential, one of the greatest film scores of all time.

Uh... somebody needs to get out more.

4. Field of Dreams  

The most beautiful score of the 80's.

Um... "E.T." (1982), anyone?

I wonder if A.I. has ever heard Aaron Copland's music for "Our Town." Horner obviously has. LOL

1. Titanic  

The perfect score. Even Williams can't top it.

Ah, I see. Judging from this remark and your choice of a screen name, I finally begin to realize exactly the kind of person I am dealing with.

Figo, who likes ST2 and "The Mask of Zorro," but is hard-pressed to stretch it to five.

[Lurker 5]

Here are my top 5 Horner scores:

Krull

Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan

Brainstorm

Star Trek III - The Search For Spock

Aliens

I must take issue with AI's statement that Aliens is an influential score. Yes indeed, it is used in many trailers (Minority Report being the most recent) but Aliens is such a pastiche of previous Horner scores, Goldsmith scores and the music of Aram Khachaturian that I can hardly consider it influential. In Horner's defense, he only had 3 weeks to write the score, but Goldsmiths Capricorn One can be heard at several times as well as Horner's "Klingon Theme" from Trek III. I would say that those are instead the influential scores. Aliens is a good score, but if it's "balls to the wall" action scoring you want, try Goldsmith's Total Recall (which I know is slightly derivative of Poledouris' Conan - The Barbarian).

Neil

[Morn 8]

This is not a way to make friends Figo...

And.... what did Aliens influence?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I'm deeply shocked that nobody mentioned Sneakers. That's by far his best score.

Marian - "Tahiti is not in Europe"

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

And.... what did Aliens influence?

The Matrix, for example. The sentinel music is VERY similar to Ripley's nightmare sequence, for example.

[Morn 8]

Maybe, but I think it's influenced much more by people such as Christopher Rouse.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

How can anyone mention Titanic as being a, say, Horner's "masterpiece" as it would not have been the way it is hadn't it been for "launch/systems ready" Apollo 13's suite? All cool about Titanic comes straight from launching sequence music. Everyone does it but I suppose masterpieces are somewhat supposed to be original or innovative as much as possible. Wrong was I.

[Ollie 1,059]

My five favorite Horner scores are:

1. Cocoon - a very moving score that is underrated and really doesn't get that much discussion for some reason. Sure it has a direct quote from "Genesis Countdown" from Khan but other than that one of his more original works.

2. Star Trek II - A rousing score for one of the better Trek films. He borrows from Battle Beyond the Stars but still effective.

3. The Rocketeer - This one is filled with previous scores but still a fun ride for a underrated film.

4. Glory - Take away the direct Outlaw Josey Whales rip and you have a pretty moving score. A few Horner rips occur but this score should have been nominated for an Oscar and won.

5. Braveheart - Horner owes alot to Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky on this one but it is a good solid score. Should have won an Oscar.

Honorable mention:

Rose's Theme from Titanic

I like these but they all aren't the most original of his works - Aliens, Williow, Krull and The Land Before Time

Also check out Basil Poledouris' Lonesome Dove and you'll see where Horner got his inspiration for Legends of the Fall.

[Figo 2]

What is WRONG with this guy? How can anyone have such a firm grasp of technique and yet no concept whatsoever of what it means to write an "original" score? He reminds me of Longfellow's John Alden, in "The Courtship of Miles Standish." Why don't you speak for yourself, John (or in this case, Jim)?

[Braveheart 0]

How can anyone mention Titanic as being a, say, Horner's "masterpiece" as it would not have been the way it is hadn't it been for "launch/systems ready" Apollo 13's suite? All cool about Titanic comes straight from launching sequence music. Everyone does it but I suppose masterpieces are somewhat supposed to be original or innovative as much as possible. Wrong was I.

I don't think you were wrong.

You know, before I started to listen to James Horner's music I was convinced that no composer has the time to go back and actually read his or her previous music before composing any new pieces. However, with James Horner, I've heard sequences of up to 9 notes played on the same instruments at exactly the same tempo in more than three scores! The man must be re-reading his music to see what he can steal (from himself... I won't even go into the rip off he does from the other composers)!

[Trumpeteer 302]

Before I go into my top five, I have to say that there isn't a composer alive whose music isn't influenced by another composer. What Horner does so often is self-plagarism. If you say his Legends of the Fall score leans heavily on such-and-such, I call that influence, especially if he doesn't cut and paste a melody or rhythm. Every score after his remarkable Apollo13/Braveheart year (1995) have been major examples of self-plagarism (Windtalkers is a recent example).

So here I go...

1. Aliens -- I love every note of this score. Very atmospheric. I especially like the use of the string instruments as percussion. They seem to mirror the dripping water/dingy atmosphere of the planet's colony. And then, there's "Bad Dreams," "Ripley's Rescue," "FaceHuggers," "Futile Escape," "Going After Newt," "Bishop's Countdown," and "Queen to Bishop." Great action writing with a little bit of heart thrown in. Oops. Looks like I just named off cues from the entire CD!

2. Braveheart -- I wish this film had been released in 1997. Then maybe Horner would have won Best Score. This is a major achievement for Horner, using instruments that obviously enamored him. My favorite cue is "Revenge." It's a wonderful blend of synth and orchestra.

3. Field of Dreams -- just for the final half hour.

4. Titanic -- the second half of the film (just after the iceberg hits) is too familiar. But that love theme! And that song! Celine does a great job with the melody.

5. Sneakers -- Horner having some fun, and stretching his jazz legs as well.

I'm renting The Rocketeer, Star Trek 2 and Willow soon to hear what everyone's talking about.

Jeff -- who never gets upset by Horner's self-plagarism; just saddened

[Guest]

Before I go into my top five, I have to say that there isn't a composer alive whose music isn't influenced by another composer.

Yes, we know, blah blah. As far as self-plagiarism goes, yes, a lot of famous baroque composers in particular were not above it. What is indefensible is the fact that Horner outright steals from OTHER composers. That's right, he doesn't even bother to change their music. That's why, for instance, "Willow" is not all that great a Horner score -- very little of it is actually Horner! :evil:

[Figo 2]

Oh shit -- that was me.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Man, Figo likes to mix it up, doesn't he? That's cool, but try not to belittle other's artistic opinions (I think that's why some people tend to not reply to your posts... afraid of you lashing out at them).

Now, I know that the only Horner score that I bought and love (Braveheart) stole from the only Holst work that I own (The Planets, to which I have the Williams/BP album), but hey... I still dig it.

[Figo 2]

Just trying to live up to my reputation, friend.

Fig

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

"Your reputation is secure. Mr Scott."-Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III- The Search For Spock

Stefancos-

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I know. But keep in mind that I've offended many people here with much, much less. Some of these guys are sensitive (sometimes I can be sensitive too, so I'm not belittling them).

[Figo 2]

Okay, okay...

Sorry, A.I. I was just being a dick.

Is that better?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

(sometimes I can be too, so I'm not belittling them).

HA!!!

Stefancos- imitating Miss Crandle...."What, here name is Crabapple????....i've been calling here miss Crandle for years....D'oooohhhh, she must think i'm an idiot."

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

:cry: Waaa! Stefancos made me cry, but I dried my tears and now I am mad! Delete it and ban him! Waaa! :cry:

[Figo 2]

No text. The hilarity continues below.

[Figo 2]

I've seen the error of my ways. For all I know, the guy could have been calling himself A-One, after the steak sauce.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

:cry: Waaa! Stefancos made me dry! Delete it and ban him! Waaa! :cry:  

 

I made you dry???

Sorry boy, better use the towel yourself, or let your mommy dry you off.

Stefancos-

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Stop editing my posts, Steef!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah...right.

Stefancos- who preserved the evidence.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,I said I wouldn't participate in another Horner debate,but here's my top 5(not in order)

Land Before Time

Star Trek 2

Krull

An American tale(minus the song tracks)

Cocoon

K.M.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I only have two Horner scores, Titanic and The Land Before Time. The Land Before Time is above Titanic for me . . . wonderful themes!

Ray Barnsbury

[King Mark 3,631]

What is WRONG with this guy?  How can anyone have such a firm grasp of technique and yet no concept whatsoever of what it means to write an "original" score?  He reminds me of Longfellow's John Alden, in "The Courtship of Miles Standish." Why don't you speak for yourself, John (or in this case, Jim)?  

hmm,Figo,you seem to know lots about classical music,but what else?

K.M.Who knows little about musical techniqes,but,these are not my only field of education or interests,in fact they contradict artistic likings.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

"I don't know why we are having beans on a small boat?" - Robin Williams.

My mom walked in the room and looked at the screen and said "Who's quoting Robin Williams??? Usually if you try to quote someone, shouldn't it be impressive?"

LOL

[Pianoman 0]

My top five.......

5.) Apollo 13

Incredible score, but you need the Promo release to fully experience it. "All Systems Go-The Launch" is one of the best tracks ever in film music. Guaranteed to get you pumped.

4.) The Land Before Time

The great thing about this score is that every moment is SO good. Picking a favorite track is difficult because every single one is wonderful! Lots of different melodies and lush orchestration, I adore every second of this score.

3.) Legends of the Fall

I was listening to this soundtrack with my friend, who doesn't even listen to film music, and he thought it was awesome. As his mom walked in the room, he was like "Hey mom, isn't this just the most beautiful music you've heard in your LIFE?" Such beautiful sound and melody. It's gorgeous. Watch the movie and see how perfect they are together.

2.) Braveheart

Such an awesome score...one of the best love themes ever written...great battle tracks...so many sweet melodies..and just so much EMOTION... Watch the movie and you'll never forget it. I think everybody's heard it and everybody loves it.

and finally...

1.) TITANIC

I agree with AI that this will never be topped. The perfect score, the perfect song, the number one soundtrack by James Horner. And don't forget the extra score thats on the follow-up Back to Titanic. "The Portrait" and "A Building Panic" add to the greatness of a score I will never tire of. An unbelievable score by Mr. Horner!

--Pianoman

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

I don't think you were wrong.

Thanks for the level-headed post, Braveheart!

Sorry, I hope I didn't make you feel angry about my post, Braveheart! I also didn't think you the fan who speaks so highly about Titanci score. It was somewhat a quale interjection of mine because in fact many people around me take for nothing but granted that the highest selling movie score must automatically mean it's the best deed in the realm of filmscoring. I intended to suggest I disagree so much about this conception.

Well, I also have Titanic score on CD (...reddening...), even I have the back-to follow-up and must hand to Horner that he managed to make a best seller with "only" a "very good" score. Even James Horner can do pretty MUCH better than that (e.g. LotF, Braveheart) and oddly haven't been nodded at Oscars for neither of the two mentioned above.

I don't mind him citing himself in a number of scores of late. It makes me save some money on purchasing his scores so I can get something else... Anyway, myself being a big fan of Williams', I have solid 10 scores by Horner. Legends of the Fall made me be more interested in what else he has to offer...

Yoda L.:alien:

[chs058 0]

Willow

Legends of the fall

Mask of Zorro

Titanic

Cocoon

[chs058 0]

Oh Yes, by the way, you know?