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"Revenge of the Sith" unanswered questions


homiealex
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Hello all,

I've seen "Revenge of the Sith", read the unabridged script, as well as read all six movie novels, but there are some things that STILL remain unanswered (formerly established mysteries, not plot holes in this thread):

* Who was Jedi Master Sifo-Dias (I think that's how he was spelled), and how did he work into the whole story? "Master Sifo-Dias died nearly 10 years ago", "When MY master first contacted you?", "WHOEVER ordered that army did not have the approval of the council", etc. etc.

* Who deleted the Kamino files from the Archives in the Jedi Temple? There was 1 line that seemed to hint that General Grevious did it in the "Revenge of the Sith" novel, but that was a stretch ...

There were a few more but that's all I can immediately remember.

God bless,

Alex

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Palpatine tells Anakin the story about the Sith Lord who discovered how to manipulate the midichlorians to create life. This Sith Lord (I didn't remember his name) was killed by his apprentice. Am I right in assuming that Palpatine was his apprentice? It seemed that this was strongly hinted at in the film, but not actually stated. In which case this great Sith Lord would have been around on Tattoine around the time Anakin was conceived. Then Palpatine killed him shortly after, perhaps knowing that the child would one day become known to him as a possible apprentice. Or am I way off on this?

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In which case this great Sith Lord would have been around on Tattoine around the time Anakin was conceived.

Ah, I had never thought of that. So Palpatine's Master actually 'conceived' Anakin?

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The next set of commentaries is going to be a hoot. I'm curious to see what excuses Lucas is going to pull out of his ass for this sort of things. :P

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Wow that means when Vader trew The Emperor down in ROTJ he was not only saving his son, but also taking revenge for his fathers death.

The plot thickens.

LOL

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Wow that means when Vader trew The Emperor down in ROTJ he was not only saving his son, but also taking revenge for his fathers death.

The plot thickens.

LOL

Yet its holes widen. :P

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Or Palpatine learned it, killed his master, and then conceived Anakin himself. In which case, the Emperor is Darth Vader's DADDY! :)

Ray Barnsbury

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What I want to know is when does Anakin tell Obi-Wan to give Luke his lightsaber? Why doesn't Obi-Wan remember the Droids? How did Lars and Beru have anything to do with not wanting Anakin to join the Clone Wars?

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Okay here is my take on it: Anakin had no father, it wasn't any Dark Lord, I thought of him like a biblical person, not concieved of any body, with the virgin Shmi, and Anakin is the chosen one, not born of man. And the reason that Obi-Wan said to Luke that his father wanted you to have this is simple: Obi-Wan wanted to remember Anakin the way he was before he destroyed himself to the dark side, it is the same reason he bends the truth in avoiding that Vader is Anakin, that Vader is his father. And Obi-Wan probably just says that I don't remember OWNING any droids, and many droids look the same, and I can't remember if Obi-Wan has seen 3PO in his gold plating yet, I know that is why Beru and Lars dont remember him. Around 20 or so years have passed, so these people are not going to remember every little droid they pass.

I always figured the first answer to the first post is that Master Sipodias was Palpatine, I think Palpatine went in disguise to Kamino, and with his powers he was able to erase the Jedi Archieve Memory.

So thats that

WWM

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Droids that they have been around since TPM? How much time passes between the prequels? (At least R2. 3PO was on Tatooine between I and II.)

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Darn, I missed Obi-Wan taking Anakin's saber, or rather I must have seen it but must have been too focused on Anakin & Obi-Wan's emotions to pay attention to this.

Telling Luke his father wanted / would have wanted him to have his saber (don't know the exact line) simply seems like the kind of nice thing to say, whether Anakin actually said it or not-- besides, you can always imagine that Anakin did say at one point something like "When I ahve a son, I'll give him my saber", off-screen.

Obi-Wan didn't own any droid indeed. The same droid may be on his fighter, but he doesn't own it like Anakin does C3-PO. They all look the same, and C3-PO's memory was wiped out.

Oddly, they didn't mention R2's memory.

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R2 can't speak. In the novel, they wipe 3PO's memory because he threatens to tell Leia about her parents.

I didn't see Obi-Wan take Anakin's lightsaber. When did that happen?

Even if Obi didn't OWN the droids, I think his reaction to seeing a droid he was around for fifteen years would be more than "I don't recall owning any droid."

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Before Anakin is left to his fate on Mustafar, Obi-Wan picks up the lightsaber and leaves. Before the prequels ever came out, I always thought about a scene where Anakin has a moment with Obi-Wan about his upcoming fatherhood, and that he'd say something along the lines of, "If anything ever happens to me, I want you to give my lightsaber to my son." But that was before Lucas explained that Jedi were like priests or monks (no marriage, no material possessions, etc.) The good Anakin would have wanted his offspring to follow in his footsteps, and I would have liked a scene where he tells Padmé of his dreams of raising a future Jedi.

It is subtlely implied that Anakin was the "create[d] life" that Palpatine refers to. But I largely think Palpatine was using that as bait to reel in Anakin further into the dark side.

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Master Sifo-Dias was killed by Count Dooku as he left the Jedi and this was his first assignment by Sidious. He also deleted all files in the temple cos the army should be a secret. For his success he got the title Lord Tyranus.

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Another thing; If Jedi cannot possess anything, and cannot get married, how does Luke marry Mara Jade and Leia Han in the novels? Lucas messed that up.

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marriage for a jedi isn't forbidden. in the novel for TPM there are serveral one's who married. It's not common for a jedi but it's tollerated (as far as the book says :) )

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The next set of commentaries is going to be a hoot. I'm curious to see what excuses Lucas is going to pull out of his ass for this sort of things.

"... Now this scene went through some major re-colorization in post-production. Did you know those walls used to be blue? Yep, but you see, the guys at ILM meticulously cut around Anakin, Palpatine, and the extras in this shot to turn the walls red. I think it really adds a lot to the scene; the audience is gonna have some reaction to the red in the wall... because, well, red is angry, as you may have heard, you know, it's an angry color, which represents Palpatine's plans to--HOLY ****, a starship! I gotta tell you about how we rendered this baby. You see, first some graphics artists came up with a rough model, and that was way back during Clones... "

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Or Palpatine learned it, killed his master, and then conceived Anakin himself. In which case, the Emperor is Darth Vader's DADDY!

Hmm, that would also make the Emperor Luke's and Leia's grandpa.

:?

Family Christmas with the Skywalkers must be really awkward.

Ray Barnsbury

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I guess with Luke being the only Jedi then (ok, Leia can be left aside in this regard), who was there to tell him "you can't do that"? ;)

Also, I don't recall Ben telling Luke "now that you'Re a Jedi, you can't marry". :) So how would he know...

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About 15 years I guess between TPM and ROTS.

And 18 between ROTS and ANH.

And how much time between the start of Revenge of the Sith till the end? 'Cause Padme's pregnacy develops thoroughout the movie.

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Seeing how every human being in the SW universe ages according to Earth time, it's probably 9 months. Unless Padmé was really just a damn fine looking alien. Rrrrrrrr...

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From an e-mail I received earlier today. It will answer every question.

This is ABSOLUTELY from an early draft of EPISODE III.  (Perhaps people would have thought this scene was boring in Lucas' eyes...)  Not a joke:

ANAKIN: What have I done? 

SIDIOUS: You made the right decision, you are fullfilling your destiny... 

ANAKIN: I haven't joined you! I saved your life for Padme! You are going to stand trial before the galaxy for your crimes. I am a Jedi! 

SIDIOUS: Are you? 

ANAKIN: What? 

SIDIOUS: Do you remember the story of Darth Plagueis? Do you remember what I told you about Dooku and your mother's death? Do you remember me predicting the Jedi's treasonous attempt to take over the Republic? 

ANAKIN: Yes... 

SIDIOUS: Now that I am revealed, it is time to tell you everything. The whole, terrible truth I learned from Dooku, when he became my apprentice, but I must start at the begining. Darth Plagueis was my master, it was he who had power over life and death. I did not finish learning how he could stop death, but I did learn from him how to create life. 

ANAKIN: You said you could stop death! You lied to me! 

SIDIOUS: I am not done yet, there is much more to my story. I was proud of my master, but he was growing dangerously soft. He was going to reveal himself to the Jedi, and join them. Betray the Sith Order to help the corrupt Republic! So I killed him when he couldn't save himself. But I needed an apprentice for my new plan, the ultimate apprentice. I used my powers of the darkside to influence the midichlorians in a woman I chose to create an incarnation of the Force, of power itself! YOU... 

ANAKIN: No! That is impossible! 

SIDIOUS: Ohh, but it's true. You will find the truth in yourself. You could call me your father. 

ANAKIN: Then why did you leave me as a slave on Tattoine! 

SIDIOUS: I never intended that. Some of the most wise and unclouded Jedi sensed your creation: Master Yoda, Syfo-Dyas, and Dooku. Yoda and Windu ignored it, refusing to believe it, for if their Chosen One has come that must mean their most cunning enemies, the Sith, must still exist. Dooku and Syfo-Dyas believed it, found your pregnant mother, and sold her into slavery to the Hutts to hide you from the Jedi, since murder is not the Jedi way. Yoda knew of this after it happened, but refused to search for your mother, thinking the Force would bring you to them when you were ready. 

ANAKIN: The Jedi sold me into slavery? 

SIDIOUS: Yes. I was lost because you could not be trained as my apprentice, and I didn't know what happened to you. It was to risky to try again, so I trained an orphan, Darth Maul. After a decade I created a tax on the greedy Trade Federation in the Senate, and contacted them as Sidious to invade Naboo with their droid armies to protest the taxation. This crisis would get me elected as Chancellor, and create a larger crisis to the Senate that would give me emergency powers. But then you were revealed, my apprentice died, and the Federation was defeated. 

ANAKIN: Why did you leave me to the Jedi, then? 

SIDIOUS: I considered taking you away, but then I thought it would be better that you realized how evil the Jedi were on your own. But you know I have guided you for the last thirteen years... Syfo-Dyas tried to persuade the Jedi Council to create an army to battle my droid armies in a coming war he had forseen, but was refused, so he ordered the Clone Army on Kamino for the Jedi Order to use to defeat the Sith and take over the corrupt Senate, if it grew to that. And Dooku joined him, erasing the planet from the archives. Dooku searched for me, and I allowed him to find me. I convinced him I was only trying to save the galaxy from the corrupt Senate, and joined me as my new apprentice, Darth Tyranus. He told me of the Clone Army, which we then took over, using Jango Fett as the host after he was tested by destroying Syfo-Dyas. 

ANAKIN: Was my mother's death a part of your plan, too?! 

SIDIOUS: Of course not, I cannot have complete control over my followers, yet. Dooku learned before he left the Jedi of you, and shortly before Geonosis he arranged the capture and murder of your mother by the Sand People to keep you from getting involved in the coming war, which I had no knowledge of at the time. Dooku and I had prepared the Clone Wars, with him and Grievous to lead the droid armies of the Separatists, and the Jedi and myself to lead the clone army of the Republic. The wars gave me the absolute political power from the Senate I sought, and destroyed most of the Jedi. Now with Grievous's death and Windu's failed assasination I can declare the Jedi traitors, and end this war, after declaring I will keep my power for life as Emperor of a New Order for the galaxy. And with Dooku's death, and the truth revealed, you can become my apprentice... 

ANAKIN: Then the war was meaningless, just for your selfish desires! And you setup the Jedi to attack you! 

SIDIOUS: Partially true, Anakin. It is selfish of me to become absolute ruler of the galaxy, but is that any more wrong than you betraying Mace Windu to save Padme? And the Jedi were tring to take over the Republic, Anakin. If Syfo-Dyas had lived he would have used the Clone Army to take over the Republic, and even lately I had a vision that the Jedi were going to take over the Senate if I had not released my powers, even before they knew I was a Sith! 

ANAKIN: I can't betray the Jedi, they are my friends! Even if they are trying to take over the Republic, you are too! What makes you any better? 

SIDIOUS: Only I can save Padme, only I am your friend, only I am willing to use all the options to obtain peace for the galaxy. Unlike the Jedi, their vision is clouded and flawed. Do you really believe they are you their friends? You know in your heart they aren't. They will not be happy with your marriage to Padme, or your betrayal of Mace Windu. The Jedi have never trusted you, respected you, or cared for you.. unlike I, your creator. They didn't let you go back to save your mother soon enough, and they will not let you save Padme. The Jedi do not have the answers you seek, only the Sith. Now that they know my identity they will never stop the attack, they are a threat to galactic peace and my life. They must all die, do you want Padme and yourself to die with them? There is no going back now, they will never accept you now. And you will need me to save Padme. 

ANAKIN: You lied to me, you also say you can't save Padme! 

SIDIOUS: You're right, I can't, alone. But together we can rediscover the secret of my master. It is possible, I created you to be the most powerful being ever! With my teachings and your powers combined we can save Padme! The galaxy will be under our control, whatever you desire will be yours! Anakin, I am your only hope. 

ANAKIN: Then I promise to join the Order of the Sith, for the power over life and death. 

SIDIOUS: Good, goood! It will be done. We will do it, together, and bring peace and order to the galaxy. Rise, Darth... Vader! Dark Lord of the Sith

Neil

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Just a tad more involved than the film version:

ANAKIN: What have I done?  

SIDIOUS: You made the right decision, you are fullfilling your destiny...  

ANAKIN: Then I promise to join the Order of the Sith, for the power over life and death.  

SIDIOUS: Good, goood! It will be done. We will do it, together, and bring peace and order to the galaxy. Rise, Darth... Vader! Dark Lord of the Sith

Ray Barnsbury

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no, I was busy helping my Mom get the last of her stuff out of her old apt. and into her new apt. I might actually get to see the movie tomorrow, maybe.

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That was no joke. It really does come from an early version of the script. I'm not about to kid around in someone elses thread, and I'm not going to waste my time and write my own ROTS fanfic and I recieved it from a trusted individual. It is very much real.

Neil

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Interesting. It wasn't in the illustrated screenplay.

It answers things most of us have guessed, and it was rightly cut. This scene would not only have brought the movie to a screeching halt, but would've destroyed what little mystery there is left.

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I think it's too good to be fanmade. It's also enough material for an entire new movie.

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Darth Plagueis

|

Darth Sidious__Darth Maul

|

Darth Tyranus

|

Qui-Gon Jinn

|

Obi Wan Kenobi __ Luke Skywalker

|

Darth Vader

I think Obi Wan won't feel proud of his Jedi descendence...

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Well i dont know how the public would have reacted about Palpatine insemiclorianing Shmi, but affecting midiclhorians, they surely would not have been happy.

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Unanswered question.

Why didn't ObiWan and Yoda try to destroy Palpatine together after Yoda almost beat him alone?

There was a window of time right after Vader was burned when Obiwan and Yoda could have kicked Palpatine's ass.

IMO, Palpatine/Vader seemed weak enough so that ObiWan/Yoda could have defeated them between Episodes III-IV.

Unless they explicitly knew that Luke would win through appealing to Anakin's good side, they should not have assumed Luke would be stronger than them combined.

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Interesting. It wasn't in the illustrated screenplay.

It answers things most of us have guessed, and it was rightly cut. This scene would not only have brought the movie to a screeching halt, but would've destroyed what little mystery there is left.

I disagree, it would have made for a better movie, if they needed to cut anything it was the stupid space battle at the beginning..., and the Frankenstein moment...., and the constant somersaults and acrobatics....., and McDirmids cheese......, and....

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R2 can't speak.

Of course he can. He doesn't speak English, but he can communicate: C3-PO obviously understand him; Anakin, Ben, Luke, ..., understand what R2 / R4 units tell them; they may not get everything they say, but enough.

And anyway, since he's a droid, his memory can be read.

It's odd, thus, that his memory isn't ordered wiped.

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I found it cool.

But the funny thing must 'forgot' to mention everything to luke...

Maybe he stored it somewhere waiting for some encoded order...

I think that has material for a book, in which Luke and Leia are told at last the complete story...

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3PO is an interpreter. When R2 or R4 communicates, it is usually in a spaceship (unless there's some communication on Dagobah I can't quite remember now). In a spaceship, the bleeps and bloinks are translated to a computer screen in the cockpit.

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