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Anyone good with time signatures/meters?


Foxfan

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While I can easily identify when something is in 3, I often seem to mix up pieces that are in 2 or in 4.

For instance, what meter were these written in: The Raiders' March, Imperial March, Superman, Midway March, March from 1941.

I was told in a class that most marches were in 2 (like Stars and Stripes), but when I listen to 1941, it seems to be in 4. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

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Typically a march is in 2 (as in a literal "march" left right left right etc) but to be honest many marches have been written in 4. The opening measures of Imperial March are in 4-beat phrases, but when the main theme starts it sounds like 2. Marches by their nature are in 2, but there are exceptions, and it's almost impossible to tell how it's been notated just by listening to it. It's all down to the notational preference of the composer. There's no real answer.

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Good answer Mr Twinkle Sir....

For the record, 1941 is in 2, Superman in 4, Raiders march in 4, Midway in 2.....

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Qute often it's by the bass ostinato - listen to the 2-note bass figure of the 1941 march, then the 4-note bass line of Superman or the melody for ROTLA that would be far too drawn out for it to be in two.....

....this is not foolproof however - for example the main Star Wars theme sounds as though it's in 4, but actually it's in 2 for some reason (I suspect that may have to do with hemi-demi-semi-quavers and too many bars to fit into a small space on the page).....

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Its up to each composer whether they want to write in 2 or in 4. I find that very detailed music with many 16ths or 32nds reads easier in 2.

The first note of a measure is usually played a little (tiny tiny bit) louder, so if you don't want the 3rd beat louder, make it in four. If you want every other beat louder, do it in 2.

But even that can be caveated with accent placement.

How does one spot the difference between 2 and 4?

One would really have to see the sheet music to know. What's written in 2 could also be written in 4. I had the last movement of my String Quartet in 4 for the fast part, but changed it to 2 because it was easier for musicians to keep track of the changing patterns and rhythms.

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To Jeshopk you listen, save you he can. Even though a march is intended to be felt in 2 (and after the opening measures I feel Imperial March in 2, I'd be interested to know what the actual time sig is) it's important to note that the strongest beats in 4 tend to be 1 and 3, therefore occasionally giving a sense of 2 also. Greg mentioned the use of ostinato, and that is often the giveaway. However in the case of the Imperial March the ostinato is in 4, whereas I hear the actual tune in 2.

The ostinato: 1:Bom 2:Bom bididi 3:Bom bididi 4:Bidididi

versus the theme: 1:Bom 2:Bom |1:Bom 2:Bom ba|1:Bom 2:Bom ba|1:Bommmmmmm| etc

That would have been so much easier if I had music figures on my keyboard!

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The ostinato: 1:Bom 2:Bom bididi 3:Bom bididi 4:Bidididi

versus the theme: 1:Bom 2:Bom |1:Bom 2:Bom ba|1:Bom 2:Bom ba|1:Bommmmmmm| etc

Most impressive notation!

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1941 is in 4:

1941-2.JPG

Hmmm - interesting - that's the only version of that piece I've ever seen that is in 4....I wonder why that is?

Strange....

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well, 1941 is the signature edition, supposed to be the original, reviewd by JW with preface by himself.

BTW: I have theme from Superman sheet music starting in 4/4 for 7 bars, then switching to 12/8 for later back to 4/4 and again back to 12/8.

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Indeed - Superman is in 12/8 much of the time, however 12/8 of course still equates to 4 beats in a bar.....I didn't want to confuse the issue any more!! (Foxfan - 12/8 is usually 4 sets of 3 quavers in a bar - compound time giving a different feel to the music and it lengthens the beat but shortens the quaver length.....listen to Midway March for another example of Compound Time - you'll hear the diffenrece)

As for 1941 - I have never seen, played nor conducted the Sig edition, but as I said it is the only version I've ever seen that is in 4.....which is interesting as it is a straight American quick-march and is in a 2-feel.....

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