I gave in...and bought 'Batman Begins'

[publicist 4,484]

The collector's usual dilemma...you're out buying gifts and stuff, but as soon as you enter the CD store the indestructible wish to buy SOMETHING for yourself sets in. In lieu of 'WotW' or, god forbid, some interesting older score the only halfway interesting entry on the rack was the Zimmer/Newton-Howard first (and hopefully last) co-op 'Batman Begins'...so i burned another 16,99€ :?

There's an outrageous amount of padding within the 60 minutes of score, where murky basses and synth samples amount to something i'd like to call 'amorphous noise'. You clearly can hear the beer commercial man coming to the forefront in the 'action' moments of the score...always when painfully loud and painfully simple ostinati figures ground another chord-driven french horn theme without any hint of musical finesse.

How Zimmer can march from witty little ditties like 'Matchstick Men' and 'Spanglish' to trailer junk like this is beyond me. Even more beyond me is that an 'indie' director obviously trails Zimmer for a year to beg him for giving him exactly that. But what do i know?

Newton Howard fares better. In half of the cues, the first half is somber and reflective 'Unbreakable' -Howard, while the amorphous noise overtakes the second half and whoever is responsible for that should be made apprentice to Ben Burtt in a hurry. It's just no music.

Best moments are to be found in cues 4, 7 and 11. It's exactly here that Newton-Howards tragic elegy soars into something that has musical flow. It's the usual characterless score written by not one, but two prolific and costly Hollywood composers, with the usual helpings of three dozen people credited for additional noise.

Hereby i command Zimmer only to work on quirky little films in the future, Newton-Howard can do whatever he wants as long it's not check-grabbing for things like 'The Interpreter'.

[Mooz0r 23]

Never been a Zimmer fan - his work is too simple - too cliché ... I really dont like it

[MAG-SI 10]

....Hereby i command Zimmer only to work on quirky little films in the future....

Isn't this quirky little film?

[Morlock 9]

Never been a Zimmer fan - his work is too simple - too cliché ... I really dont like it

Another one? I thought you uninformed anti-Zimmerites were starting to see the light.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

You have your work cut out for you, Morlock.

[bondo 33]

I like it, minus the sfx-like noise on track 6

[John Takis 88]

I was at a Trivia Night two nights ago, and one of the questions was to name the composer of "The Lion King", "Gladiator", "Black Hawk Down" and "Pearl Harbor". I was SO tempted to write down the name of every MV composer I could think of ... but our team needed the point, so I gave them the answer they were looking for.

[publicist 4,484]

What i bemoan, apart from the slaughterhouse finesse of Zimmer's (or whoever is responsible) brachialmusik, is the meager MUSICAL content. When half of the discs running time is taken up by something that sounds like recordings of the inner workings of a steel mill with some overlaid non-thematic chords, it's sound design for 9€.

And last time i checked i still bought CD's for the music, not because i'm a techno DJ in desperate need of new stuff.

Since Zimmer is capable of good music, if he only abandons the wish of writing for a large orchestra, which simply isn't his forte or training, i wonder why he always takes these assignments. The outcome is inevitably clumsy, with no regards to the dynamics of instrumental sections of an orchestra. To hide the bare bones orchestration, a lot of irritating synth is poured on top and voila...ready is McDirt's new meal for the hardened stomach...

Please Hans, stick to writing small pieces with lovely melodies and quirky rhythms...let the symphony orchestra for those who know how to handle it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

I don't know... he's arrogant?

[AC1 3,565]

What i bemoan, apart from the slaughterhouse finesse of Zimmer's (or whoever is responsible) brachialmusik, is the meager MUSICAL content.  When half of the discs running time is taken up by something that sounds like recordings of the inner workings of a steel mill with some overlaid non-thematic chords, it's sound design for 9€.  

And last time i checked i still bought CD's for the music, not because i'm a techno DJ in desperate need of new stuff.  

Since Zimmer is capable of good music, if he only abandons the wish of writing for a large orchestra, which simply isn't his forte or training, i wonder why he always takes these assignments. The outcome is inevitably clumsy, with no regards to the dynamics of instrumental sections of an orchestra.  To hide the bare bones orchestration, a lot of irritating synth is poured on top and voila...ready is McDirt's new meal for the hardened stomach...

Please Hans, stick to writing small pieces with lovely melodies and quirky rhythms...let the symphony orchestra for those who know how to handle it.

You got a clear view on these matters, publicist.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

Never been a Zimmer fan - his work is too simple - too cliché ... I really dont like it

Another one? I thought you uninformed anti-Zimmerites were starting to see the light.

:roll:

zimmer just needs to go away.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

I'm not really sure about this score. Do we really know who did what? I wouldn't be surprised if the praise to Howard/bashing to Zimmer situation had more to do with the constant disliking for Zimmer than the actual quality of the music.

Then again, I haven't really heard anything of it, so what do I know?

[Morlock 9]

You have your work cut out for you, Morlock.

All I can do is spread the truth, and bring light to where there is darkness in the film music fandom world.

zimmer just needs to go away.

Yes, the good always go young, don't they?

Morlock- who's opinion on the matter is one of his few opinions on film music that has not changed over the past 3 years

[Lurker 5]

Morlock- who's opinion on the matter is one of his few opinions on film music that has not changed over the past 3 years

My opinion of Zimmer and what he is doing to quality film music has been the same for far more than a mere three years.

Neil

[Morlock 9]

And how's that workin' out for ya?

[publicist 4,484]

Then again, I haven't really heard anything of it, so what do I know?

You soon have a chance to listen to it...trust me, you know when it's Zimmer (or his posse) and you know when it switches to Howard. It's the difference between 'Barbarian Horde' and 'Reflections of Elijah'. It's not that hard to spot.

I even sympathize with Morlock inasmuch i like 'Matchstick Men', 'Thin Red Line', 'Spanglish', 'Laura's Stern', 'Radio Flyers' and some other Zimmer scores, which all lean on rather small ensembles and betray a good sense for melody and ensemble playing ('TRL' excepted, that's nice for it's stillness).

But as soon as the man gets the opportunity to make 'BIG' movie music with 100-piece orchestras, it's a mess. He isn't fit to do it and only the musical illiterateness of Hollywood allows for this kind of charlatanerie.

The problem isn't even the occasional 'Gladiator', but the abundance of these so-called scores in lots of very visible studio films. Their inability to translate dramatic content to concise musical statements leads to wallpapering, save the nice melody here and there, and makes the function of film music, at least if we follow the rather dogmatic definitions of the past, obsolete.

[AC1 3,565]

Of course, in all fairness, writing music for a 100-piece orchestra is something few can succesfully pull off. Williams is one of the exceptions.

---------------

Alex Cremers

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Silvestri could do it. Yet he was replaced by Klaus Badelt and the MV posse on Pirates of the Caribbean. Such a shame.

[batmanand 0]

I enjoyed Gladiator. Some excellent battle music - if one forgets the synths - and some powerful, soaring elergies make for a very emotional and exciting score. But apart from this and Lion King, and maybe Crimson Tide (for adrenaline!), I find Zimmer dull.

[bondo 33]

Funny no one ever stops to think that these Zimmer soundtracks aren't just what he does in his free time, but rather what he's PAID to do, ie a job. Sure he has major input, but the sound of a score is often the product of what the director and producer(s) want. Why are there droning sound-effect laden tracks? Probably because it's what the director wanted. He made it very clear this wasn't going to be a typical super-hero score.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

Why do so many directors and producers these days like bad music then?

[King Mark 2,924]

But as soon as the man gets the opportunity to make 'BIG' movie music with 100-piece orchestras, it's a mess. He isn't fit to do it and only the musical illiterateness of Hollywood allows for this kind of charlatanerie.  

.

You will see,that music will be mixed in the film so loud it will make your ears bleed,while you'd need to bring somekind of special in-ear amplifier to hear Williams music clearly in most of the films he's scored lately.

K.M.

[bondo 33]

Why do so many directors and producers these days like bad music then?

Everyone's got an opinion, yours just doesn't happen to match theirs. Most of them don't specialize in music, and I doubt most were clasically trained

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

It seems like the only filmmakers who use good music in their movies are the ones who grew up listening to film music. (ie Spielberg, Matt Groening--though not a filmmaker) It's just as in real life. There aren't that many people who listen to strictly film scores, so for those who do that and are filmmakers...mediocre musical tastes=mediocre scores for films. It makes sense. How can you masterfully use something that you've never explored?

In this instance (and quite a few others), Peter Weir is a genius and quite a formidable advocate of using music to its potential in his films (even music not written for his films--i.e. Gorecki's 3rd Symphony at the end of Fearless).

[Saxbabe 28]

If you want to "try before you buy", there is an AOL Listening Party for the Batman Begins score. Don't know if I'll be able to buy the soundtrack before I go to the showing at midnight, so taking advantage of it now.

http://music.channel.aol.com/musicstyles/s...soundtracks.adp

Greta

[MAG-SI 10]

Thanks!!

Now..even more... I don't understand why is this shit being discussed here?

OMG is BAD!!!

Ok, maybe for someone this videogame music is wet dream material, but for me it is Shit (with capital 'S')!

[Morlock 9]

Silvestri could do it. Yet he was replaced by Klaus Badelt and the MV posse on Pirates of the Caribbean. Such a shame.

It's not MV's fault Brookheimer is an idiot.

Morlock- who is still not sure if Silvestri was fired, or if he quit after he was asked to rewrite the score.

[gkgyver 1,638]

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[Justin 2]

Silvestri could do it. Yet he was replaced by Klaus Badelt and the MV posse on Pirates of the Caribbean. Such a shame.

Morlock- who is still not sure if Silvestri was fired, or if he quit after he was asked to rewrite the score.

I doubt Bruckheimer asked Silvestri to re-write the score.

That just doesn't seem like something he would do.

Justin

[Morlock 9]

I know, but the Kaplans over at FSM said that he was brave for walking off the picture.....

[jamesie 1]

Sooo... What are the best tracks I should *gasp* download if I want something RELATIVELY good??

[bondo 33]

3, 8, 10, and 11

[THEfranz_conrad 0]

Silvestri never recorded a thing on POTC. He left after disagreeing on general approach with the director and producer. He has said as much in an interview, though to be sure he may have been diplomatic for the press.

[AC1 3,565]

Right, I haven't seen the film yet, and I believe Zimmer when he says that an Elfman- esque approach would have been slightly inappropriate, but (aargh, that PotC motif AGAIN!!!) why does he abandon the SOUND of the old films? Change the style of the music, do it, after all it's a different kind of Bat- film, but why oh why can't you keep the power of a real orchestra? It belongs to Batman, no matter how emotional these films become.

You better believe it. Elfman's fairy tale music would've been highly unfitting for a gritty Batman movie such as this one. Ah, I only hope that Zimmer's music won't kill the experience that lies ahead of me.

Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale ...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

Elfman's first Batman wasn't "fairy-tale" like. Batman Returns however...

[QMM 4]

I'll be getting the score today, I've tried to not listen to any of the preview tracks so my impressions will be rather fresh.

[Luke Skywalker 1,286]

Good luck, and may the force be with you.

I think it says it all...

[John Crichton 4]

Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale, Bale ...

Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam....

John- who just couldn't resist

[King Mark 2,924]

Well,I haven't heard it,but can very well imagine how it sounds.A movie can't be above mediocre if the score is deficient.

K.M.

[bondo 33]

It pretty much goes like this: (based on the album, not the film)

Action music - Distinctly Zimmer, motifs most closely resemble Black Rain and Pirates of the Caribbean

Quiet, reflective music - Mostly Howard, his typical Unbreakable/Signs beautiful underscore

The rest seems to be Zimmer's normal string underscore. Personally, I think it matches the description of the film perfectly. It's not overly heroic, and it's very moody and at times horrific.

[diskobolus 3]

Just saw the movie, and it was really good. Three stars. I thought the score was ok, appropriate for the film and well used, but the main theme, which I thought was just an atmospheric thing, was repeated way too much. I could really tell what was Zimmer's and what was Newton-Howard's. A couple really nice passages of Howard's that might be worth getting the OST.

[Saxbabe 28]

Just got back from the film as well. It was incredible. Everyone was blown away in our theatre. My mind has to still take in and process all that I saw. There were several "virtuoso" sequences that were stunning. Right now I can't say much would be sufficient, besides that it's one you should experience live (and in IMAX if you're able)! I've got to hand it to Nolan for this one.

I echo diskobolus's comments on the score, though I actually enjoyed the Zimmer parts in the film more than I expected. His stuff can work fine in film, (sometimes very well in this one) but doesn't offer much of an out-of-film listen.

There was a Batman big theme that was nice but only appeared a couple of times in the last half hour or so - and extreme overuse throughout of another not even theme, but a Batman "motif", that is two notes (a minor third) each played very looong, with a big crescendo on the first one and diminuendo on the second one.

The "love theme" was the most gorgeous material of Howard's. He had a lovely solo piano for Bruce Wayne's childhood memories and in general, emotive string writing of a fine quality.

A standout music/visuals moment for me was when we first see Gotham City panned over as Bruce and his parents pass it in the train, accompanied perfectly by one of the very nice JNH passages.

In all, one of the best cinema experiences I've had in years. And Bale rocked, just super. I liked Liam Neeson's performance in this as well. Katie Holmes was also better than expected. 4 out of 5 stars.

Greta

[Lurker 5]

Very good movie. Score from hell though. Nothing memorable. Works decently in the movie, but the stuff featured in the end credits did nothing for me. There was no strong identifiable theme, just lots and lots and lots of wallpaper. Sad, this is the first Batman score I won't be buying.

Neil

[bondo 33]

Were the end credits entirely score?

[QMM 4]

I just saw it and I give the film 5/5 stars, the perfect Batman movie. I'll give reasons later on why but I'll just go onto the score now.

I liked the score probably a lot more than most people here and I wasn't bothered much by the Zimmer parts, not nearly as bad as POTC. There should be no comparisons to Elfman's Batman though. Tim Burton's vision of Batman was never the real Batman and the score reflected that, it was more fantasy and whimsical, something akin to a Spin-off of a real comic series. Begins is the real story of Batman and the score does fine with it, the few motifs and themes in the movie satisfied me (from a person who only wants themes in movies) and really did support Wayne's dark persona.

Max

[King Mark 2,924]

Very good movie.  Score from hell though.  

Can a movie still be very good if the score is bad?

K.M.Who's appreciation of the score takes a big place in his overall impression of a film.

[batmanand 0]

Goldeneye?

[gkgyver 1,638]

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[QMM 4]

The only thing that's irked me about the soundtrack is that the music from the trailer (the cello theme when Bruce gets on the plane) isn't on the soundtrack, only a variation of it.

[bondo 33]

Isn't the trailer theme the 'big' theme that wasn't really used, but hinted at in track 8?