Let's discuss the 1997 release of Return of the Jedi

[Trumpeteer 302]

For a while I've read many people diss the 1997 Sony release of "Return of the Jedi," saying it is inferior in sound quality to the 1993 anthology.

I've been listening to the 1997 CDs in my car these past two days, and I'm blown away by the way the orchestra sounds. To me, this sounds fuller than "Star Wars," though maybe too much noise on the high-end. But I have no problems with it.

I sold my anthology discs in 1997, so I can't compare. But I want to hear in detail why this release sounds so bad to everyone else.

Jeff -- who loves the synthesized bass in "The Dark Side Beckons"

[Henry B 50]

Comparison clip:

http://www.freewebs.com/cerrabore/anth-se.mp3

I hope an exception to the copyrighted music rule can be made, as this is a very short clip. Anyway, this is "Through the Flames" or "Main Reactor," Anthology to SE. The SE sounds like it's been severely dehissed. Indeed, there isn't a nanodecibal of static, but listen to that poor, poor sound quality.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm curious to hear the comparison, but your link keeps redirecting me to this page.

[Henry B 50]

Copy the URL into your browser's address bar.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

- Marc, who wants these anthology tracks.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

Wow, what a difference

Get the firing squad ready...

[Trumpeteer 302]

OK, I hear the difference. But it seems sooooo miniscule. Maybe they started to sound the same after the 50th listen.

It seems, at least in this comparison, that one of the tapes was adjusted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the days of non-digital recording, didn't each mike record onto its own sound reel? So it seems that in this excerpt, the tape that recorded from the mike closest to the violins was altered in the SE. And if they were trying to dehiss the recording, why do I not hear people saying that "Star Wars" sounds bad? Because I know for a fact that that score was severly dehissed.

What I'd really like to hear is the difference in "The Dark Side Beckons," when Vader is hunting for Luke under the throne room. The bass on the SE is pretty dang good. And then the eruption of chorus sounds fine to me.

But again, I don't have the anthology for comparison. If Neil and/or Ricard would allow it, I'd love to hear more comparisons.

Jeff -- who does agree that "Minority Report" was badly mixed

PS -- Thanks, Cerrbore.

[Henry B 50]

It seems, at least in this comparison, that one of the tapes was adjusted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the days of non-digital recording, didn't each mike record onto its own sound reel? So it seems that in this excerpt, the tape that recorded from the mike closest to the violins was altered in the SE. And if they were trying to dehiss the recording, why do I not hear people saying that "Star Wars" sounds bad? Because I know for a fact that that score was severly dehissed.

I didn't say that the SE was dehissed; it simply sounds like some amateur ran the music through a free audio editor's dehiss function. Really, I have no idea what happened. But to me there is a significant degradation in sound quality. Are you listening on bad speakers?

And Star Wars sounds excellent. Compare "TIE Fighter Attack" to "Superstructure Chase."

Here is "The Dark Side Beckons." The difference isn't as radical as in the action cues... the brass section was hit hard, you see.

http://www.freewebs.com/cerrabore/dsbcomp.mp3

[A24 4,331]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the days of non-digital recording, didn't each mike record onto its own sound reel?

No, there was something called a multi-track tape recorder. The big studio machines usually recorded 24 tracks on a 2" inch tape.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[mahler3 478]

And Star Wars sounds excellent. Compare "TIE Fighter Attack" to "Superstructure Chase."

That would be an unfair comparison as Williams used what seems like a smaller ensemble and slightly different orchestration for the Superstructure Chase

Some moments of Return of the Jedi sound superb to me (Main Title, Forest Battle, Death of Yoda, Into the Trap etc.) but the recording is far inferior to ESB. I find Star Wars to have far too much close-miking for my taste. Compare the '77 Main Title to Williams & the LSO's '97 recording as featured on The Hollywood Sound CD - now that for me is the ultimate performance of the Main Title on all levels of technacility.

Just received Intrada's new Capricorn One CD yesterday, now there is a beautifully recorded score from the Star Wars era - so crisp! Reminds me of the Varese MacArthur CD - another great sounding disc. Anvil was very behind the times in comparison to US sound facilities of course.

[King Mark 3,631]

The sound on the JEDI SE is muffled.The instruments are indistinct.The best comparision is to listen to the few tracks that were re-mixed(from another source?) on the bonus DVD disk of the RotS soundtrack.

K.M.

[robthehand 3]

The best comparision is to listen to the few tracks that were re-mixed(from another source?) on the bonus DVD disk of the RotS soundtrack.

That's so annoying. I hate Sony for their 2004 release. The hologram on the cover is really disturbing too.

[Morn 8]

The SE ROTJ is certainlly inferior. However it has much more of the music.

They said though that that weren't able to find the original 24 track tape used an already mixed tape. If you notice TESB, the SE does sound much better, even if the mixing has errors.

[christer 0]

First of all; If I remember it correctly the front cover of the CD edition of the original 1983 release, stated that it was indeed a DIGITAL recording? (on the little flap on the top right) So what happened to these original tapes? Clearly they are not the base for any of the re-releases. :?

Second of all; I don´t think listening through a CAR audio system will be a fair treatment of an orchestral recording by any means. Using a high end audiophile system reveals the difference between the 1993 and the 1997 editions with heartbreaking clarity. The 1997 simply SUCKS!!! It´s a little uneven though, some tracks are better than others, but the overall sound quality is extremely low. this can´t be a seriously meant release. It´s an insult to us music lovers!!!

[Damo 0]

has anyone got the 2004 release of Return of the Jedi?..because i only got the 2004 release soundtrack version for the new hope, empire strike back, and return of the jedi.

[robthehand 3]

has anyone got the 2004 release of Return of the Jedi?..because i only got the 2004 release soundtrack version for the new hope, empire strike back, and return of the jedi.

Uh - I might have misunderstood you, but it seems you have it. :?

And I do too. Regretably.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

i think he meant if the 04 version has improved sound over the 97...

[Greg1138 3]

They sound identical to me.....

Greg - who still reaches for the Anthology set when wanting to listen to ROTJ....

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I reach for the original single CD when I listen to ROTJ

[Lurker 5]

First of all; If I remember it correctly the front cover of the CD edition of the original 1983 release, stated that it was indeed a DIGITAL recording? (on the little flap on the top right) So what happened to these original tapes? Clearly they are not the base for any of the re-releases.  :?

Jedi was an analog recording.

Neil

[Todd 30]

Nice comparison's C....pisses me off...

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

ROTJ SE sounds very filtered and airless. The other SEs sound rather harsh. Listen to the remastered CE3K and tell me you wouldn't like to hear Star Wars CDs that sound at least remotely like that.

Marian - persistantly annoyed.

Jurassic Park III (Don Davis)

[Trumpeteer 302]

The difference isn't as radical as in the action cues... the brass section was hit hard, you see.

Apparently, judging by the differences in "The Dark Side Beckons."

I will contend that the brass does sound muted. The trumpets don't seem to have that ear-tingling pitch.

They said though that that weren't able to find the original 24 track tape used an already mixed tape.

OK. Now it makes sense. If they had the original (as I assume they did for the previous two) it wouldn't sound so bad.

Well, since I don't have the anthology I'm very happy with the 1997 release. Plus, I have more music, as Morn notices, and it's chronological.

I do miss the original "Ewok Celebration," though.

Jeff -- who listened to "The Return of the Jedi" two-and-a-half times on the way to work

[Willy 0]

The LP of ROTJ sounds excellent. It really puzzles me why the '97-release sounds like someone put blankets over my speakers.

[Trumpeteer 302]

The LP of ROTJ sounds excellent. It really puzzles me why the '97-release sounds like someone put blankets over my speakers.

From what I now understand, it's a copy of a copy. You lose some in the translation.

[Morn 8]

It's an old aged copy of a copy

[ymenard 54]

I don't think that *all* of the ROTJ SE sounds bad. Of course superstructure chase is the worse here, you kinda picked the worse cue of all. There's stuff in Jabba's lair that sound almost like a bootleg, but not the entire soundtrack. The alternate cue during the Rancor battle, the actual action cues, the stuff with the Emperor, etc... it sounds good, similar to the Anthology 4CD. But when its bad, yeah its bad.

That marketing crappy thing DSP or whatever that Sony adversited for the new releases was pure marketing lies.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

The alternate cue during the Rancor battle

(Sail Barge Assault )

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Actually, the cues in the X-Wing game series, which are taken from the Anthology (as far as I know) sound better on my computer speakers than the ROTJ SE does on my stereo system

Marian - :?

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Actually, the cues in the X-Wing game series, which are taken from the Anthology (as far as I know) sound better on my computer speakers than the ROTJ SE does on my stereo system

Marian - :?

You are exagerating, ROTK SE sounds better than midi!

i know you are talking about new versions...

[Damo 0]

i think he meant if the 04 version has improved sound over the 97...

Yes. The 04 version is newly remastered using Sony Music's DSD (Direct Stream Digital) technology. which has improved the sound quality over the previous versions.

[Henry B 50]

But not really.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

You are exagerating, ROTK SE sounds better than midi!

What were you thinking foolish idiot?!

I think he meant ROTJ SE.

[Morn 8]

Isn't it like in mono in that game?

[Lurker 5]

i think he meant if the 04 version has improved sound over the 97...

Yes. The 04 version is newly remastered using Sony Music's DSD (Direct Stream Digital) technology. which has improved the sound quality over the previous versions.

No it hasn't. You can't take a digital master, run it through a new process and improve the sound. It would only benefit if the analog masters were transfered to DSD and then re-assemled. As it is, it's just marketing. There is no improvement in the sound of the 2004 releases.

Neil

[Morn 8]

Hmm, what makes you think that remastered means using the digital master and not the analog tape?

[Lurker 5]

Hmm, what makes you think that remastered means using the digital master and not the analog tape?

Because the credits on the inside of the album are identical to the RCA albums.

Neil

[Morn 8]

Ahh...

[robthehand 3]

Talking of the inside of the 2004 release of Return of the Jedi, "Luke Confronts Jabba" has an asterisk next to it. Why? I looked all around that stupid fold-out thing and can't find what it's supposed to reference.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Somebody must've forgotten to remove the asterisk from the RCA tracklist, where it indicated the track was previously unreleased.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

LOL

how sad...

[Chris Malone 49]

For a while I've read many people diss the 1997 Sony release of "Return of the Jedi," saying it is inferior in sound quality to the 1993 anthology.

Hello there

Try this link, it should answer your questions:

http://www.users.on.net/~jennychris/starwars.htm

[Henry B 50]

That was very informative.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Yeah, and now i almost think of the SEs as bootlegs...

Thanks pal!

j/k, very informative indeed

Now we know why Superstructure Chase sounds that bad.

[Willy 0]

Hello there

Try this link, it should answer your questions:http://www.users.on.net/~jennychris/starwars.htm

That's what I call a good read!

Thanks for sharing, Charlie!

[robthehand 3]

I didn't read it in great detail... yet... but what joke did make Coca-Cola come out of George Lucas' nose?

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

I think those are jokes...

I wouldnt hesitate to put them if they were true....

[Trumpeteer 302]

Thank you very much for the link, Charlie. That was a hefty read.

Now I understand why "Jedi" does sound a little muted in the trumpets on the second disc, and why "Superstructure Chase" is so obviously different.

I still love listening to my Special Edition discs, despite the sound differences from the anthology.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

*I did a search on this but didn't find anything, so apologies if it's been discussed before*

I just noticed that "Victory Celebration" is basically "Luke and Leia" with a flat here and there. I think I've been on this forum too much haha. Pretty sweet. I always liked that track since hearing it in the theater. Can't believe I never picked up on it.

[Trent B 337]

Edit: I didn't realize this thread was a year old.... ooops.... :oops: