Who is the greatest conductor in your opinion?

[Figo 2]

A documentary on Africa, you say? Yeah, I think I read that somewhere once. Well, that explains it. Sounds damn silly in its new (inadvertant) context.

[Morn 8]

Maybe he didn't have a choice. Maybe Kubrick kept on his back to keep it close. But then how close is close before it starts to become plagiarism?

It's pretty much as far from being it while still being it as you can get if you get what I mean. And here is North on it:

I flew over to London for two days in early December to discuss music with Kubrick. He was direct and honest with me concerning his desire to retain some of the "temporary" music tracks which he had been using for the past years. I realized that he liked these tracks, but I couldn't accept the idea of composing part of the score interpolated with other composers. I felt I could compose music that had the ingredients and essence of what Kubrick wanted and give it a consistency and homogeneity and contemporary feel. In any case, I returned to London December 24th [1967] to start work for recording on January 1, after having seen and discussed the first hour of film for scoring. Kubrick arranged a magnificent apartment for me on the Chelsea Embankment, and furnished me with all the things to make me happy: record player, tape machine, good records, etc. I worked day and night to meet the first recording date, but with the stress and strain, I came down with muscle spasms and back trouble. I had to go to the recording in an ambulance, and the man who helped me with the orchestration, Henry Brant, conducted while I was in the control room. Kubrick was present, in and out; he was pressured for time as well. He made very good suggestions, musically. I had written two sequences for the opening, and he was definitely favorable to one, which was my favorite as well. So I assumed all was going well, what with his participation and interest in the recording. But somehow I had the hunch that whatever I wrote to supplant Strauss' Zarathustra would not satisfy Kubrick, even though I used the same structure but brought it up to date in idiom and dramatic punch. Also, how could I compete with Mendelssohn's Scherzo from Midsummer Night's Dream? Well, I thought I did pretty damned well in that respect........ Well, what can I say? It was a great, frustrating experience, and despite the mixed reaction to the music, I think the Victorian approach with mid-European overtones was just not in keeping with the brilliant concept of Clarke and Kubrick.

Are you familiar with the American composer William Schuman? North's music kind of reminds me of him.

A little familar with him I shall have to get more by him.

[Morn 8]

PS Goldsmith even knew it was the Africa theme, he probably just wanted a chance to record it

[Rogue_Leader 2]

NOBODY BEATS WILLIAMS!!!

NO ONE!!!

[Guest]

As a matter of fact, if you had taken the time to actually read my post instead of immediately getting your panties in a bunch and hitting the response button, you would know that I am a tremendous admirer of Bernstein -- indeed that is whom I voted for in the poll.  You, my friend, are flaying a straw man, preaching to the choir, stroking your own ace, and whichever other cliches you wish to rain upon yourself.  For someone who finds the topic silly -- brother, you sure did say a mouthful.

Figo, who made some of your better points before you did.

Figo, are you sure you are refering to me? Because if you read my post again, I had not in anyway indicated that you hate nor dislike Bernstein. What I said was that you had considered him to be idiosyncratic. What do you think, perhaps you need to learn more english before you get pissed off and drunk by your own perceptions of grandeur.

Furthermore, please don't rewrite my statements to fit your own misunderstanding. Tell me where abouts that I had indicated the topic was silly?

Maybe you ought to read first and make opinions later, since you make so much of it on this board, perhaps you had forgotten how not to, as evidenced of putting your words in my mouth.

This is what I said,"This topic is equivalent to asking, what's the tastiest food in the world?"

Please take some english lessons, particularly the subject of reading comprehension, it will do you much good, so you'd listen more and talk less.

I have been pondering as to what reasons created the tone of your post to me, and the only thing I can think of is that you're not used to being differed, since you're so used to being kissed by your commentaries.

The thing is, you're posting topics to those whose majority mostly listens to film music, not classical music. Hence they're impressed with you. But your comments doesn't impress me much, because it doesn't hold water to truly hardcore classical listeners. I wonder as to how many classical manuscript orchestral scores you have in your collection that you actually study?

But hey, maybe I am wrong, and I am willing to admit so, when I read your commentaries in such publications such as, Gramophone, BBC Music, Classical, etc. Maybe I ought to stop wasting my time reading these journals, listening to their CD recommendations, watching so many classical videos, and just learn from you.

I am a huge fan of Bernstein, and I had not argued about your choice of Poll, and as you accuse me as someone who needs to hold back and read before I answer, well, it's intriquing that you have failed to do the very thing that you preaching to me I ought to do. Look carefully and you'll notice that I had indicated what you had neglected to do, which is to give some possible reasons as to your labeling of Bernstein's "idiosyncrasies".

If I am wrong in my perceptions of you, I apologise.

Still, I hold my ground that, for anyone to consider just one conductor to be the greatest will be limiting their potential reward to find other lesser-known, or lesser conductors, to be superior at some pieces over your favorite dirigent.

But to bring this to a peaceful and respectable close, I apologise in advance for any hard feelings.

[Morn 8]

I had not in anyway indicated that you hate nor dislike Bernstein. What I said was that you had considered him to be idiosyncratic.

He has said that he pretends to be the composer that wrote the piece while conducting, if that isn't idiosyncratic what is?

[Tippett 0]

It's obvious Kubrick showed the film to North with his own music already in place,

....can«t you hear that in Star Wars ANH?

Holst - The Planet, Stravinsky - The Rites of Spring, Dvorak etc..

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

....can«t you hear that in Star Wars ANH?    

Holst - The Planet, Stravinsky - The Rites of Spring, Dvorak etc..

I hear Holst (it's really just that ostinato, not that much) and lots of Stravinsky. Where's the Dvorak?

Marian - who never noticed him.

[ocelot 508]

FIrst of all I agree with the fact that Williams shouldn't really be on this list. He really only conducts his own stuff, plus, as much as I love the guy for his compositions, he really isn't in the realm of these other guys when it comes to conducting. He is very good, don;t get me wrong, but conducting hundreds of different styles of works by hundreds of different composers takes a lot more than just being a good conductor.

My vote went to Solti. They are all amazing for various reasons, but there is something about some of Solti's CDs that just grab me.

As for classical music verses film music.... John Williams wound NOT be the composer he is if it weren't for classical music. Out of all the composers out there doing film, the reason we like Williams so much is because he can draw from all these classical styles and give us incredible orchestrations, themes, and a tons other things the other "film" composers cannot... So let's not go knocking classical music... It's the basis of what John does!

[Figo 2]

Please take some english lessons, particularly the subject of reading comprehension, it will do you much good, so you'd listen more and talk less.

You're a hell of one to be telling me to take English lessons!

Well, as a matter of fact, if you are so well-versed in classical periodicals, you probably have read my work, Mr. Smarty-pants. A good portion of my income is through freelance music-writing and record reviews. How do you suppose I'm able to get away with spending so much time on the computer? We're not all unemployed like Morn, you know.

Bernstein was idiosyncratic. As I said, I saw his alterations to the Sibelius First with my own eyes. You can't tell me his DG recording of the Tchaikovsky Pathetique is not idiosyncratic. Or Elgar's Enigma Variations. That's not to say he didn't feel the music. I do not for one second doubt his sincerity, but the fact of the matter is, on occasion, he did have a tendency to go way over the top. That's just the kind of guy he was. So perhaps it is you, not I, who needs to pay more careful attention to what is being said, and to the definitions of words.

In any case, thank you for your apologies (in advance, no less) and for your hopes to bring things to a peaceful and "respectable" [sic] close, Anonymous.

Just don't forget to take your Ridlin.

[SkyMaker 0]

Just don't forget to take your Ridlin.

I take 800 mlg once every hour!

.....just kidding.

[SkyMaker 0]

He is very good, don't get me wrong, but conducting hundreds of different styles of works by hundreds of different composers takes a lot more than just being a good conductor.

As for classical music verses film music.... John Williams wound NOT be the composer he is if it weren't for classical music.  Out of all the composers out there doing film, the reason we like Williams so much is because he can draw from all these classical styles and give us incredible orchestrations, themes, and a tons other things the other "film" composers cannot... So let's not go knocking classical music... It's the basis of what John does!

Totally agree with you there, Ace. I've noticed that you and have similar thoughts on things. beerchug

[billybobab 0]

Williams. I like Ozawa, but I think Williams is the Pele of Composing and Conducting. He does not have many CD's out without his music though. Also, a conductors ability is somewhat limited by the orchestra. He can not make a instrumentalist better. He can only change the style something is played, and that only to an extent.

Billybobab

[Figo 2]

That's what you think. A good conductor can definitely inspire his musicians to exceed themselves. In the old days, people like Szell and Reiner used to put the fear of God into their orchestras. There was at least one incident of someone committing suicide in Cleveland, he was so stressed out. Of course, that's all different now, with the unions, and these days conductors generally try to play the nice guy. I hate to say it, but however they did it, those old-timers got results.

The Boston Pops is a fine orchestra. Listen to any of their recordings under Fielder. Fiedler doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves. I have some old recordings of him conducting Hindemith -- not exactly Pops-fare! -- with the composer on solo viola. He was a real conductor.

The problem with Williams is that he doesn't seem to penetrate very deeply under the skin of other composers' compositions. Even the pops stuff seems weak to me, but this may be in part the fault of the engineers. I have never heard him conduct live, so it's entirely possible I have a distorted point of view. But this is the story his recordings tell.

Compare his Holst to that of Dutoit or Boult. Compare his Orkney Wedding to the composer's own. His Kabelevsky, Gliere, Rimsky-Korsakov, and Borodin to that of Reiner, Ormandy, and hell, just about any other major conductor. For point of argument, let's pit his Russian Sailor's Dance against that of Ormandy. There's no contest. Williams generates all the excitement of a high school concert orchestra. These Russian miniatures are not rocket science, and yet Williams can't do anything with them except get the musicians to play together.

This is not a swat against his wide musical education or his abilities as a composer, but his conducting -- again, on record -- is serviceable, at best.

[Hitch 57]

What about John Doe who conducts the number 25 bus from Oxford Street to Picadilly Circus.....sorry just kidding....

What about this honorable person who was not listed!

Herrmann, Bernard :cool:

Hitch,

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Please...Bennie conducted his own work much...to...slow...

Stefancos- wondering if Sir Hitch got his email?

[Figo 2]

Bernard Herrmann was a terrible conductor!

Figo, who thinks his recording of Ives' Symphony No. 2 is a train wreck!

But what a wreck!

[CruciformSword 2]

I have never gotten to see anyone conduct, except for watching John Williams conducting at the winter olympics on tv. :cry:

-Jasn

[Figo 2]

For those of you who think of Andre Previn as "vanilla ice cream," I think you should know the 73 year-old maestro -- who, on his best days, looks all the world like Morocco Mole -- has just married the 39 year-old violinist Anne Sophie Mutter, quite simply one of the biggest babes in all of classical music!

True, Previn is an excellent interpreter of Rachmaninoff, Walton and Vaughan Williams; he did a gorgeous Strauss cycle for Telarc; and his recording of Nielsen's First may be the very best ever -- but Anne Sophie Mutter?!!!

Clearly, there is more to the man than meets the eye.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Clearly, there is more to the man than meets the eye.

:wow:

That guy must indeed be a virtuoso with his baton.

Stefancos-

[Wickenstein 0]

My experience with most of those conductors is in my numerous Wagner recordings. I think Karajan is the best conductor of that bunch. Sure, the orchestra usually couldn't stand him, but he got results. The man knows what orchestral power is. I've got to mention my fondness for Solti too though. His Ring recording can't be touched.

Where's Furtwangler and Knappertsbusch?

[Eplicon 53]

I've always enjoyed Lenny Bernstein's works under the NY Philharmonic. As for Williams, I've always felt he is best when he is conducting his own material than when he does cover versions of other composers' music.

[Morn 8]

But Williams is usually brilliant with other composer's film music.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Clearly, there is more to the man than meets the eye.

:wow:

That guy must indeed be a virtuoso with his baton.

Stefancos-

Ah yes!!!!

Ill be back in a couple of minutes

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Back...

Hector - has nothing to say... for the moment

Hector2 - who knows he's also a virtuoso... at something

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

The giants of our own time (that is to say, the last half of the 20th century) were Karajan, Bernstein, and perhaps even Solti (on a good day).  Karajan was the most Apollonian of the three, and toward the end of his career seemed to focus almost exclusively on the sheen of his orchestra (the Berlin Philharmonic).  Bernstein and Solti, on the other hand, were complete folowers of Dionysus.  

I've heard this expression plenty of times, "apollonian", "dyonisian". What does this mean?

Hector - asking to know more

Hector2 - who thinks Williams is a great conductor of classics, but unfortunately there are no recordings of complete works

[Lurker 5]

Hector, something tells me Figo's not going to reply to your question. I could be wrong. I guess we'll find out.

Neil

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

But others might know.

[Morlock 11]

I think Fiedler was a great conductor.

[Smaug 0]

I like many of the works conducted by Bernstein, Solti, Karajan and Williams (!) but I've got to go with Zubin Mehta on this one.

[Morlock 11]

Yes, I must agree - If I had to choose, It'd be Mehta.

[Smaug 0]

Apollonian and Dyonisian as I understand them, are two different approaches to life.

These are the best explanations I?ve found:

Apollonian: Derived from Nietzsche?s symbolic use of the name of the Greek god of light and truth, Apollo, to describe a psychological condition, the term can be either a noun meaning "one who must have order and discipline in his or her life" ? or an adjective, referring to the orderly, rational component in a person, a society, or a work of art.

The Apollonian spirit is scientific and critical; by emphasising reason, it offers assurance that the universe is intelligible. More than that, it demands that intuition be held in check by the clear light of rationality. An Apollonian person delights in connections that make sense out of apparently unrelated phenomena.

Dionysian: Derived from Nietzsche?s symbolic use of the name of the Greek god of wine and vegetation, Dionysus, to describe a psychological condition, the term means "one who enjoys excess in pleasurable activities" or "one for whom intuition and spontaneity predominate," and as an adjective refers to the spontaneous or creative components in a person, a society, or a work of art.

The Dionysian spirit is found in abundance in the humanities. It is the moving force behind most of the world?s great music, dance, poetry, theatre, and visual art. The Dionysian person is not afraid of trusting hunches and intuition, of expressing deep-rooted emotion

So there ya go??

[hitman20 0]

Jean-Baptiste Lully

[Beowulf 4]

Wow, this thread has randomly been resurrected from the ashes!

Well since the original posting of this thread by me a year and half ago, I think my decision has changed somewhat slightly (although Solti is still my second fave). Since then i've listened to a s*$%load of more music by other conductors, and I must say that Karajan has to take my vote now. You can say whatever you want to about the man, but damn was he passionate about the music he conducted. My favorite CD in my entire collection at the moment are his 1976 recordings of Tchaikovsky's 4-6 symphonies with the Berlin Philharmonic. Absolutely brilliant interpretation/playing!

[MSM 126]

1) Karajan

2) Bernstein

3) Williams

[MSM 126]

For those of you who think of Andre Previn as "vanilla ice cream," I think you should know the 73 year-old maestro -- who, on his best days, looks all the world like Morocco Mole -- has just married the 39 year-old violinist Anne Sophie Mutter, quite simply one of the biggest babes in all of classical music!

True, Previn is an excellent interpreter of Rachmaninoff, Walton and Vaughan Williams; he did a gorgeous Strauss cycle for Telarc; and his recording of Nielsen's First may be the very best ever -- but Anne Sophie Mutter?!!!  

Clearly, there is more to the man than meets the eye.

Andre Previn's dead right?

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Nope. He's getting busy.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Wow, this thread has randomly been resurrected from the ashes!

Well since the original posting of this thread by me a year and half ago, I think my decision has changed somewhat slightly (although Solti is still my second fave).  Since then i've listened to a s*$%load of more music by other conductors, and I must say that Karajan has to take my vote now.  You can say whatever you want to about the man, but damn was he passionate about the music he conducted.  My favorite CD in my entire collection at the moment are his 1976 recordings of Tchaikovsky's 4-6 symphonies with the Berlin Philharmonic.  Absolutely brilliant interpretation/playing!

Love your Tchaikovsky avatar

[Magnus 0]

ah... so many!

Manfred Honeck, Mark Wigglesworth, Valerij Gergiev, Esa-Pekka Salonen, Carlos Kleiber... the list goes on... 3 of those I know pretty well (Honeck, Wigglesworth, Salonen) and I've met Gergiev once, I'll go see him rehearse in the Berwaldhall this week

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Cool

[Magnus 0]

I just sat through the most effective rehearsal ever... Maestro Gergiev had the orchestra play through the piece (Berlioz's Romeo and Julia) with small adjustments on the road and even sent the orchestra home more then an hour early I wanna be able to rehearse that way too!

[Donnelly24 0]

James Levine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Justin 2]

Not that I know anything about conducting but I whenever I see Karajan conducting he always seems on the verge of falling asleep. Maybe it's just me.

Justin -Who didn't vote because he has no idea who half of these people are.