Sergei Prokofiev

[Incanus 5,713]

I just listened to an album called Prokofiev goes to the Movies and I must say I was long overdue listening this brilliant Russian composer. The CD has three suites of his work, Ivan the Terrible, Lieutenant Kije and Alexander Nevsky. All are wonderful examples of first rate composition and film music. They are powerful moving and humorous(the Lieutenant Kije). I had no previous experience of the composer's music beyond Peter and the Wolf and few pieces from his Romeo and Juliet concert suite. Prokofiev's music does not seem dated or old fashioned to my ears. Here is a composer well worth listening to. I think I go hunting for his soundtracks right away. What do you think of the particular composer?

P.S. I know now where Horner has gotten part of his mannerisms. I could hear very similar tone and style in Prokofiev's music (theme from Glory bears a resemblance to a theme in Ivan the Terrible by the way).

Also Joel McNeely seems to have copied the magnificent choir from Battle on the Ice from Alexander Nevsky to the Shadows of the Empire (The Destruction of Xizor's Palace). But a great composer has always many imitators.

[MSM 126]

Prokofiev is after Dvorak my fav classical composer. Williams has learned a lot from his works and even imitates his style often. Some of his best works are, besides the ones you mentioned, 7th symphony, 5th symphony, Scythian Suite, Love for Three Oranges, Night Suite of the Duenna, violin concerto in D.

[nicholas 1]

The piano concertos are amazing. Number 5 contains some of the most ferocious writing for the piano. I love the jazz influences too - the opening of concerto no. 2 is quite magical (or do I mean 3???). For an amazing but completely un-hummable tune listen to the slow movement of the fifth symphony. The passionate string writing is slightly redolent of JW.

[Romão 2,274]

I love Alexander Nevsky, which is film scoring at its finest. The Field of Death is breathtaking. I love Previn's recording.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Prokofiev is after Dvorak my fav classical composer. Williams has learned a lot from his works and even imitates his style often. Some of his best works are, besides the ones you mentioned, 7th symphony, 5th symphony, Scythian Suite, Love for Three Oranges, Night Suite of the Duenna, violin concerto in D.

What about his 1st and 2nd symphonies?

-Ross, who thinks they're brilliant.

[Jeshopk 8]

I love Prokofiev's Ballets and Film Scores. To me they contrast with his other concert music because they are so Williamsy (or the other way around). I haven't warmed up to his concertos and symphonies as much as his Ballets and Film Music. But I have another 7 decades to learn about those.

My favorite is probably Lt. Kije and my second favorite is probably Cinderella or Romeo and Juliet. I used Scythian and Cinderella in a student film. I can show clips if Neil will allow it.

Jar Jar's theme and Anakin's theme are very Prokofiev-esque. But certainly Williamsesque as well.

I think Williams is more diverse than Prokofiev, but it is good that Prokofiev took so much time to define that style, or else Williams would today sound somewhat different.

[Marian Schedenig 8,175]

The CD has three suites of his work, Ivan the Terrible, Lieutenant Kije and Alexander Nevsky.

There's a double CD on Decca with the full Ivan conducted by Muti (LPO) and the Nevsky suite conducted by Previn (LSO). Highly recommended.

P.S.  I know now where Horner has gotten part of his mannerisms.

Part?

The Approach of the Greeks sequence in Troy is visually very much based on a similar scene from Ivan. Horner's score for that scene is built nearly exactly the same way as Prokofiev's.

Marian - who found that scene highly annoying.

[Jeshopk 8]

On second thought, my favorite would have to be Romeo and Juliet. Just amazing. But Kije's charms are very strong.

[flytrumpet 0]

I'm playing Cinderella next week.I'm looking forward to it as the first trumpet part is quite challenging.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I only know Prokoviev through James Horner, but what I've heard sounds good.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I've got some Prokoviev for you. Conducted by John Williams.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

To see just how Prokofiev influenced film composers listen to the Juliet's Death at the end of Romeo and Juliet. Then watch Star Trek 3, the moment where they blow up the Enterprise and watch it exploding from the surface of the planet. The music is a classic homage to Prokofiev at that point. Works beautifully too. It's the moment when the violins suddenly leap up 2 octaves!

Try the complete ballets Cinderella and Romeo and Juliet. I love all Pokofiev, but I think these are among his masterpieces.

Unfortunately I saw the uncut film Caligula a few years ago. It's basically a hardcore porn film with a huge budget and actors like Helen Mirren, Malcolm Macdowell, Sir John Gielgud, and Peter O Toole! Anyway, they managed to ruin the classic moment from Prokofiev's Cinderella when the clock strikes 12 and all hell breaks loose. In the movie Caligula they used that section of music for a very... cough... "extreme" close up of a penis having a climactic moment! Now I can't get the image out of my head when I listen to that part of the ballet!

[Incanus 5,713]

Caligula is a horrible film and the use of classical music to a such travesty is an insult to the music 8O

I could not watch the whole movie through because it was pointless since all the makers wanted was to shock. On the DVD interview the Italian producer who for all the intents and purposes looks like a 1970's porn star says with a smug smile: "Did we do it on purpose? Hell Yeah!" The movie was a cheap way to introduce Penthouse models and porn scenes. Why would Peter O'Toole do a movie like that!?

There are quite a few classical pieces in the movie such as Prokofiev's Dance of the Knights from Romeo and Juliet. Horrible way to degrade any composer.

Thanks for all the suggestions for subsequent listening of Prokofiev's music. 8O

As many of you have said Williams does seem influenced to some degree by Prokofiev and in a good way too

Jerry Goldsmith Escape from Malagant's Lair (First Knight Complete Score)

[SeekUYoda 0]

(theme from Glory bears a resemblance to a theme in Ivan the Terrible by the way).

Yes, a "I ripped this directly out of the "Ivan's Illness" theme resemblance."

I love Ivan - You might also like his "Ode to the End of the War." It's fun, and is one of the few pieces in the repertoire that has 4 separate piano parts!!!!! (as in, for 4 grand pianos on the stage!)

[Lurker 5]

The music is a classic homage to Prokofiev at that point.

That's a polite way of phrasing it.

Neil

[Incanus 5,713]

I found the Alexander Nevsky complete score recording (I do not recall the label but it was performed by Berlin Philharmoniker if I remember correctly), but because of the exorbitant price of 27 Euros I did not buy it just yet. I leafed through the liners and they said the Cantata which I have heard is drasticallly different in many of the actual score cues (as the concertized versions of film music often are). Just how different is it? Does any of you have the score recording?

The recording I found is not the one on Amazon conducted by Dmitri Vasiliev and performed by St. Petersburg Philharmonic orchestra. The one I found claims to be the first rerecording of thte complete score and has the music divided to small cues just like in the film. The St. Petersburg Philharmonic orchestra CD seems to have longer and fewer tracks but it is propably just sequenced differently.

[Orson 1]

Jar Jar's theme and Anakin's theme are very Prokofiev-esque. But certainly Williamsesque as well.

Peter and the Wolf was the first thing that came to mind when I first heard Jar Jar's Introduction.

[Romão 2,274]

I have the original soundtrack release of Alexander Nevsky from the Soundtrack Factory, but the sound is so unbelievably bad, I can only recommend it in order to own the historical recording. But believe, the sound really is awful. Much worse than the TOD boot that was ripped from the VHA tapes. In fact, it's probably the worse sounding cd I have ever heard.

[codanai 0]

Yeah, Prokofiev was under a lot of pressure by Stalin. He was given a crappy orchestra and crappy Russian recording equipment because the Soviets wouldn't dare use 'horrible' American recording technology. The 'enfant terrible' kinda got screwed over on that deal. Especially for one of the best film scores ever written. BTW, Prokofiev and Williams are my two favorite composers. I love all of Prokofiev's stuff, and all seven of his symphonies are wonderful, though I confess I haven't listened to all of his second yet. The 4th and 5th are my absolute favorites.

[H2OProof 2]

I would HIGHLY recommend Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution. If you like Alexander Nevsky you will love it. I think it is even more powerful. It requires the most mammoth assembly of performers that Prokofiev ever wrote for. (James Horner stole "The Philosophers" movement for the main title and end credits to RED HEAT [no credit given on album or on film]). The recording to get is the one conducted by Neeme Jarvi on the Chandos label.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Peter and the Wolf was the first thing that came to mind when I first heard Jar Jar's Introduction.

Peter and the Wolf was the first thing that came to my mind when I first heard Masks, from the Romeo and Juliet suite.

[Omen II 1,235]

Peter and the Wolf was the first thing that came to mind when I first heard Jar Jar's Introduction.

Peter and the Wolf was the first thing that came to my mind when I first heard Masks, from the Romeo and Juliet suite.

Apologies in advance for lowering the tone of this discussion about one of the great composers of the 20th century, but I find it really difficult to think of the famous theme from Peter and the Wolf without seguing into Harry Sukman's theme music for Gentle Ben.

Does anyone else have this problem? You can listen to what I mean by clicking the link at www.timstvshowcase.com/gentleben.html. Gee Mr. Broomhauer, Horner wasn't the only one!

Damien :oops:

[MSM 126]

Prokofiev is after Dvorak my fav classical composer. Williams has learned a lot from his works and even imitates his style often. Some of his best works are, besides the ones you mentioned, 7th symphony, 5th symphony, Scythian Suite, Love for Three Oranges, Night Suite of the Duenna, violin concerto in D.

What about his 1st and 2nd symphonies?

-Ross, who thinks they're brilliant.

They're ok, and I especially like 1st because Williams used it for HP 3, but it's not Prokofiev's main style. I have all his symphony's (Deutsche Grammophon Box) and I just prefer 5th and 7th.

[benefactor 3]

I would HIGHLY recommend Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution.  (James Horner stole "The Philosophers" movement for the main title and end credits to RED HEAT [no credit given on album or on film]).  The recording to get is the one conducted by Neeme Jarvi on the Chandos label.

I have this recording. You are right. This is probably Horner’s most blatant rip-off ever or on a par with his re-use of Nino Rota theme from Amarcord in main titles of “Honey, I shrunk the Kids”.

Horner re-arranged it a little, enhanced it with section of his own music and even re-wrote Russian text. But this is still Prokofiev. He is not quoted it, he just stole it because it was completely forgotten Cantata at the time. Funny, I always loved this title music from Red Heat and I was shocked when I heard Prokofiev’s original.

I can also recommend Ivan the Terrible conducted by Valery Gergiev with Rotterdam Philharmonic. It is a version of the another "Based on the Score Cantata" but without Russian narration. I also have complete score re-recording but I prefer this version because of much more forceful performance and it just seems more cohesive to me.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

They're ok, and I especially like 1st because Williams used it for HP 3, but it's not Prokofiev's main style. I have all his symphony's (Deutsche Grammophon Box) and I just prefer 5th and 7th.

Sorry to bump this thread out of the blue, but I just noticed this comment that the 1st symphony is not Prokofiev's main style. What is his main style, then? I'm also very curious as to what other things he's written in that 1st-symphony-style, since it's one of my favorite pieces of music ever.

-Ross, not as versed in Prokofiev as he thought.

[nightscape94 965]

I love the 4th movement to his 2nd piano concerto. It's like a frenzy.

Tim

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Because this bumbed out , I have add some comments.

For me Prokofiev is not only one of the best composers ever but

greatest orchestrator too. I really love his sound.

The end of Romeo and Juliet is absolutely gorgeous(never been

able to play it without tears).

I think Williams is most influented by Ravel and Prokofiev.

For me (not mentioned here)the Ewok theme is very much Prokofief(love for the three oranges)

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Does anyone know a good recording of Peter and the Wolf without narration?

[nightscape94 965]

I have a recording called "Infinity Digital" that has Peter and the Wolf, w/o narration, Tales of an Old Grandmother and Saint-Saens' Carnival of the Animals. It's the St. Petersburg Radio & TV Symphony Orch, conducted by Gorkovenko.

Good recording, good performance.

Tim

[codanai 0]

I don't hear much talk about his 3rd symphony, which is based off of his opera "The Fiery Angel." Now THERE is some outstanding, epic music. Before, I said my favorite two symphonies are his 4th and 5th, but now I'm almost certain his 3rd and 5th are my favorites of his. That opening chord to the 3rd is so incredibly bold and piercing--TERRIFYING even. And all the melodies and orchestration in that symphony are just monstrously appealing. So if you haven't, listen to it! It'll leave you sweating! And you better believe that Williams has been influenced by it.

If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to recommend Prokofiev's 3rd symphony.

And I hope I haven't hyped it too much...