Scoring King Kong - web diary now up

[Beowulf 4]

For those of you who are interested, the new web-diary for King Kong is up and this edition shows some of the scoring process for the movie. As you all probably know, James Newton Howard was brought in after the split between Shore and Jackson some weeks ago.

I personally am looking forward to this score/movie.....JNH is one of my current favorite film-composers out there.

KongIsKing

Sounds like its going to be a good score.....anyone else notice the Wagner Tubas about 3/4 the way through? I love Wagner Tubas!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Ooh, I like what little there was to be heard.

2 hours and 40 minutes of score... that's a lot.

[Incanus 5,713]

And PJ just giggles and says "you have a couple of weeks left:"

Jackson knows how to drive his workers crazy with those tight schedules

[Richard Penna 3,669]

Well he seems to be coping with it all and the new clips I find encouraging

[Incanus 5,713]

I do not have doubts about JNH's compositional skill but the amount of time seems so short. Still pressure brings out the best in some people.

I liked the little there was to be heard in that clip.

[nightscape94 965]

King King?

Anyway, it was fun to see him sitting at his keyboard playing precussion beats and strings and whatnot. He was pretty much composing all the parts electronically first. Cool.

tim

[Beowulf 4]

:oops:

Thanks for the head's up nightscape....errors in judgement [and spelling] are frequent when one has been up all night finishing a paper on neural networking.

[Orson 1]

I too like the little bit I heard. Hope springs eternal.

[David Coscina 3]

I also enjoyed the rather lengthy web diary featuring JN Howard. The music does sound quite good. Like some said, sometimes a composer will come up excellent material when the pressure is on. I haven't gotten a JN HOward score since The Village and haven't heard a really bombastic score since.....hmm, SIGNS?

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

Sounds good!

Marian -

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

Thanks for the head's up nightscape....errors in judgement [and spelling] are frequent when one has been up all night finishing a paper on neural networking.

Let's hope JNH fares better.

Marian - who skipped the neural networking exercises when MathLab refused to install.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Very cool! I have complete confidence that this will be a very strong score. I did wonder at first how there would be any sort of thematic integrity with James writing the score bit by bit, and having each bit recorded at that time. But then they talked about how he scored the finale early, in order to create a thematic structure. Also, working 9 am to 2 or 3 am?!? That's insane. Good luck, guys!

Ray Barnsbury - who wonders what diet PJ is on

[Incanus 5,713]

Very cool!  I have complete confidence that this will be a very strong score.  I did wonder at first how there would be any sort of thematic integrity with James writing the score bit by bit, and having each bit recorded at that time.  But then they talked about how he scored the finale early, in order to create a thematic structure.  Also, working 9 am to 2 or 3 am?!?  That's insane.  Good luck, guys!

Ray Barnsbury - who wonders what diet PJ is on 8O

PJ is only half the man he used to be nowadays. It has been shocking to see how thin the man has gotten. Or perhaps its the evil PJ who is the total opposite of the old PJ. THe old one liked Howard Shore's music and the new evil PJ does not. Good old PJ was plumb like a hobbit the the new evil PJ is rail thin and nasty.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Cool! Sounds, looks very good! 8O

~Sturgis

[Jacck 23]

It scares me that the production of a film could be so disorganised.

[diskobolus 3]

Nice clip.

[Jeshopk 8]

Chris Bacon - Additional Music. This is what happens when you fire talented composers arbitrarily.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Where does it say that?

~Sturgis

[Jeshopk 8]

Watch the doc again, and pay attention to people's names/titles at the bottom of the screen. He's the kid with the black hair. It isn't physically possible to do a score that long without ghost writers. John Williams would not have taken that assignment. He would have said. "sorry, not enough time". And so should have any other composer asked to do the job.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Rendering the film musicless? Nonsense. As is coparing JNH to Williams.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Pfft. They should have just kept Shore. Rejecting scores is insane.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

Watch the doc again, and pay attention to people's names/titles at the bottom of the screen. He's the kid with the black hair. It isn't physically possible to do a score that long without ghost writers. John Williams would not have taken that assignment. He would have said. "sorry, not enough time". And so should have any other composer asked to do the job.

Didn't he have help for ROTJ even?

Marian -

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Goldsmith had help from several people on TMP even though he supposedly had some 4 months for the score.

[Jeshopk 8]

Didn't he have help for ROTJ even?

According to a rumor, but there is no smoking gun as in this webdoc. There is nothing more than an eyewitness account by someone at FSM who says they saw someone working on the ROTJ score. But in what capacity? It could have been "orchestration" or it could have been writing Superstructure chase based on the original ANH cue and Williams' edit notes.

As for the Goldsmith Star Trek thing, I understand the point made. But I never approved of that either, and he did have 4 months. I'm sure he thought he had the time when he took the project. I disagree with Goldsmith taking on Airforce 1 without proper time. That was a replacement score as well. Composers need food on their table, yes, but if they are as successful as Goldsmith and JNH, then what is the loss in turning it down for lack of time? It sends a message to the execs that the score can be an afterthought, and they can replace composers on a whim. That type of thinking in Hollywood bit Goldsmith in the butt a number of times, including on Timeline.

I think uncredited additional music is much more of a travesty than credited additional music, so that makes the Williams allegations troubling, and the Star Trek score more troubling than the well credited Air Force One. I hope that this Chris Bacon kid gets screen credit and not just a credit in this little webdoc. JNH should not take all the glory for something that he did not compose, and reviewers of the score should be aware of authorship for historical and accuracy reasons.

[Jeshopk 8]

PS to Marian, I should not have said "It isn't physically possible to do a score that long without ghost writers."

What I meant was, it isn't physically possible to do it in such a condensed schedule. If you do 2 minutes a day, the way JNH usually does it, and Williams and Elfman do it, you can do a 2 hour score in 2 months. But doing a 3 hour score in one month is impossible unless you are just hitting keys randomly half the time, or you're composing an improv piano score. Hence Mr. Mystery man in the webdoc composing behind the scenes.

According to the doc, the action music from the finale was composed by JNH and will be re-fashioned for the action scenes in the middle of the film. So when you are thinking "JNH is awesome, I love this score". I will be thinking "I have no idea if JNH composed this, so it doesn't reflect on him in any way."

[nightscape94 965]

It's amazing that PJ sounded so calm when he said "you have two weeks left", when there are people sleeping in the studio and JNH is writting an entire sequence each day practically. I can't believe that Shore's score was so beyond what PJ wanted that he couldn't work around it.

Tim

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Watch the doc again, and pay attention to people's names/titles at the bottom of the screen. He's the kid with the black hair. It isn't physically possible to do a score that long without ghost writers. John Williams would not have taken that assignment. He would have said. "sorry, not enough time". And so should have any other composer asked to do the job.

Well, the "additional music" on Air Force One is actually the part of the score I enjoy the most (except "the Hijacking"), so additional != bad.

[Jacck 23]

Maybe it's just me, But to me, PJ looked dire. Really unhealthy... Maybe his mental state is somewhat degraded.... LOL

I can't beelive he would reject Shore's score.. Especially after seeing the unusual recording process for this film, he could of so easily asked Shore to just re-write certain parts instead of rejecting the whole score.

[nightscape94 965]

Well, from what I've heard, Shore was almost done, so how did PJ not understand Shore's musical direction until it was practically finished? You'd think that PJ would have said something the first or second day instead of wasting everyone's time.

Tim

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm starting to get worried about this film. It's twice as long as the original, the composer has been replaced at the last moment, and the budget has reportedly grown from $150 million to $207 million.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Dounds like Titanic, except fot the compser thing, no?

[nightscape94 965]

I'm sure either of the scores for King Kong would be better. Does that make it different?

Tim

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Not to bash the Titanic score, I think it's one of the few great Horner scores. Without the synthetic choir it would be perfect.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Pfft. They should have just kept Shore. Rejecting scores is insane.

Simple, catchy ... and true.

That said, I hope JNH has a strong heart and that the reviews won't be that bad.

Had PJ chosen JNH early on in the production, maybe we could have witnessed the cometic rise of another, usually overlooked, composer, much like Shore's career boost.

But now, well ...

[Damo 0]

2 hours and 40 minutes of score... that's a lot.

That would be the complete score right? some of the cues from that "2 hours and 40 mintues" will be unrelease music when it comes to the soundtrack. Soundtracks usually goes for about 1 hour.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I will be thinking "I have no idea if JNH composed this, so it doesn't reflect on him in any way."

But the idea is that a ghostwriter emulates and continues the established style the main coposer has been writing in for the film. So assuming the ghost-writers ae decent, this is much less an issue.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

THe thing with this tight schedule is that even in the case that PJ and JNH have discrepancies, there will be no time to change anymore, so in the end there will be two scores for the movie, and the director dont like both, but hte one released is not the one with months of hatchery...

And PJ has to have a great confidence in JNH, because i dont think that he can have a good look at the process with video chat...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

2 hours and 40 minutes of score... that's a lot.

That would be the complete score right? some of the cues from that "2 hours and 40 mintues" will be unrelease music when it comes to the soundtrack. Soundtracks usually goes for about 1 hour.

Yes, but he still has to write and record it.

[Jeshopk 8]

But the idea is that a ghostwriter emulates and continues the established style the main coposer has been writing in for the film. So assuming the ghost-writers ae decent, this is much less an issue.

For some of us, that might be good enough, but I really have a hard time admiring composers when I do not know whether or not to appraise their work as their own. And when I listen to music, I listen to every note. If I really love something, I want it to be the original work of a composer and not someone's best immitation of them.

If the additional music is clearly labelled, as in the case of the additional cue by Shirley Walker in Darkman, I can just appraise the real composer's work apart from the additional cue or cues. I can also give credit for the variation supplied by Shirley Walker and admire her quirks in their own light, since her portion was clearly labelled.

But if, as it seems is the case, the composer required an additional music composer to finish cues, then it is really the work of more than one composer in the same piece. And this prevents me from following the composer's growth as an artist, which is one of the joys of music appreciation. If I hear something that is un JNH-like in a piece, it could be the work of another composer, and not a decision by JNH. So how can someone like Christian Clemmensen at filmtracks then review the piece as if he knows what he is talking about.

It took a very long time for me to get into Chamber of Secrets because of this, until I got confirmation from filmscorerundowns and a member here that Williams came in to replace William Ross's adaptations with his own. Before that, I could only enjoy the concert pieces written by Williams.

[David Coscina 3]

Jesse, while I totally agree with you in principle as I am a composer too, I don't let that get in the way of my enjoyment of a score, regardless of who wrote it, especially in the case of Williams where it's 99% of him all the time. As for James Newton Howard, I like a lot of his stuff although it does beg the question as to how much stuff is really his. There's a film score book where Howard is interviewed saying that he likes having orchestrators or ghost writers pick up a theme that he wrote and develop it. This was a little disconcerting to say the least.

We are seeing more and more of this in the Hollywood system. Hence I prefer to remain in Toronto Canada and work on smaller independent projects where everyone knows who's doing what....

Oh, as a epilogue, here's a link to a symphonic poem I've begun working on. The subject matter is quite relevant to this thread-

http://forums.keyfax.com/user-files/216165...%20Expanded.mp3

[Jeshopk 8]

David,

I like it better than what I heard in either the Shore or JNH webdoc. It has the feel of the island and Kong's better nature. I imagine it would accompany a scene in which kong is traveling the terrain with the woman, and she is enjoying it rather than fearing it.

[David Coscina 3]

Thanks Jesse. I'm developing it more at the present time. I might call it a Symphonic Fantasy instead of a Tone Poem althought there is a definite narrative element that governs the musical structure. The flute part is Ann's theme, and yes, because there is that jungle percussion in the background, that music would accompany a portion where she and Kong are on the island...until the CONFRONTATION (which is that descending string line). Just wait until I write that part! But I'll need EWQLSO Gold Pro XP because it will be more modernist in its writing and tone.

[Jeshopk 8]

If you need flutter-tongue for all winds, and mutes for brass, I can send you Kontakt 2 files for those which I developed myself from the EWQL gold samples.

I recorded my tongue doing a flutter in the air and layered that with a saw wave and the result is a realistic fluttertongue for all wind instruments.

Also, there is a script for controlled glissandos for Kontakt 2.

The way I simulated mutes for brass was by cutting out and emphasizing frequencies on the ff samples. It sounds realistic and I can approximate the sound we hear in muted trombones at the beginning of On the Conveyor Belt.

I'm not going to buy the Gold Update until it comes way, way down in price. But I have found ways to do most things. The big hole in my sample library that I want to fill is col legno (with the wood) battuto (struck) strings. Gold includes that for Basses, but not the other sections!

[David Coscina 3]

yeah, I wonder why that is? I love that sound especially in Wojciech Kilar's Bram Stoker's Dracula. I used to have col legno buttuto on my Roland M-SE1 String expansion mod but they didn't sound all that good hence I didn't use them (too much wood and not enough tone).

I only upgraded to Gold Pro XP because I freed up some funds...otherwise it was Silver Pro for me and it just didn't have some of the sounds I'm looking for (Taiko drums, toms, and of course the release trails/hall ambience).

As for Kontakt 2, yeah cool. How did you know I use that too? I guess because of the legato flute and horns eh? I think K2 with the VSL instruments is an awesome value. I like using the mod wheel string patches rather than velocity patches since I find moving the mod wheel simulates the bowing action of a string....

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

It took a very long time for me to get into Chamber of Secrets because of this, until I got confirmation from filmscorerundowns and a member here that Williams came in to replace William Ross's adaptations with his own. Before that, I could only enjoy the concert pieces written by Williams.

I think that's a great pity, and almost as unreasonable as enjoying the score of a movie until you find out that Hans Zimmer wrote it, subsequently hating every note of the score.

I don't see how you can enjoy every note of any music with that kind of insecurity.

[jgraves 0]

Funny, the clip towards the end of Shore's weblog sounds a LOT like the lighting of the beacons from Return of the King....

Sorry to say I'd have to go woth JNH on this one. Dinosaur and Atlantis are two of my favorite scores of his, action-wise. Safe to day we'll be gearing a lot of that style in KK.

Jason

[jgraves 0]

BTW, here's a (previously) composed edited version of a demo I did for the King Kong game (just ignore the title):

http://www.rednoteaudio.com/Conan/Battleof...oth_Rednote.mp3

Jason

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Jason

No doubt the JNH is a talented composer, one only has to listen to Signs and Village

[jgraves 0]

Agreed!

[Lurker 5]

Funny, the clip towards the end of Shore's weblog sounds a LOT like the lighting of the beacons from Return of the King....

Joe, I didn't know you knew so much about the LOTR scores.

No doubt the JNH is a talented composer, one only has to listen to Signs and Village

Stop talking to yourself, Joe.

Neil