If Jerry Goldsmith Scored Superman...

[robthehand 3]

...we probably wouldn't be talking about it, but what do you think? I heard that Donner originally asked Jerry to score Superman - The Movie. How would it compare to Williams'?

I personally think that either would have been a good choice - it's hard to imagine the film without Williams' main theme, but I suspect I would also have liked Jerry's interpretation. What do you think?

[John McClane 1]

We can't really know, unfortunately.

But if it wasn't scored by John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith would have been the best choice for sure.

[nightscape94 965]

Well since this is probably the best or second best of any of Williams' scores, I don't even want to think about Goldmith right now (sorry Jerry ). But it's true. With what JW did for this movie, there is no possible way Goldsmith could have done better, end of story. I like Goldsmith, I repsect and enjoy many of his scores, but there is no wondering about what he could have done. It's not just the main march either, it's the myriad secondary themes that add the final touches of color and beauty. The Smallville theme, Krypton theme, Crystal theme, Love theme, Villian theme, etc. The way he weaves these in and out of the entire movie is mind boggling. Sorry Jerry, but I don't want you anywhere near this film.

Tim

[Lurker 5]

Jerry's score to Supergirl is fantastic, so I think he would have done a very good job on Superman - The Movie. However, Williams' score is so perfect I'm glad Jerry wasn't able to do it.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,759]

If pigs had wings they could fly too, but they don't

and John Williams scored Superman

[AC1 3,565]

When it comes to tonal writing, I hear a big difference between Goldsmith and Williams. Goldsmith simply doesn't have that fluent hand Williams has. With Jerry, everything sounds more blocky and forced (in comparison with Williams that is). Williams is just too much of a genius to battle with. He belongs to the giants. If he dies, it's all over.

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Alex Cremers

[Orson 1]

No matter what Goldsmith could have come up with, I don't even want to try and imagine not having Williams theme for Superman.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

I shudder to think of the electronic parts

[John McClane 1]

With all the respect I can have for Jerry Goldsmith (even if I'm not a big expert of his works), I can only say that in my opinion all of Williams' masterpieces can't be surpassed.

I can't think of nobody who could score a better Jaws, or Indiana Jones, or Star Wars, or Jurassic Park.

[Lurker 5]

Goldsmith simply doesn't have that fluent hand Williams has.

Have you even heard Star Trek - The Motion Picture yet?

Neil - who remember's Alex thinking "Ilia's Theme" was from Harry Potter

[PaulVerhoeven 0]

I shudder to think of the electronic parts

And the steel kitchen bowls being used for MARCH OF THE VILLAINS?

[Incanus 5,519]

What if Williams had scored Planet of the Apes and ST TMP?

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

With a Goldsmith Superman, we wouldn't have some of Williams best standout cues, but the action material and thus the second half of the score would probably be much more interesting.

Marian - who still wouldn't like to trade in the Krypton fanfare or Fortress of Solitude.

[AC1 3,565]

I shudder to think of the electronic parts

And the steel kitchen bowls being used for MARCH OF THE VILLAINS?

Paul, you're back?!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

I'm sure Jerry would have composed something great, but thankfully we have Supergirl to compensate.

[Luke Skywalker 1,284]

I prefer WIlliams, but i have to concede Goldsmith the benefit of the doubt.

And what about Williams' Supergirl then? :mgreen:

[Incanus 5,519]

Why are we speculating on what if Goldsmith had scored the Superman? He did not and we may only have the barest of idea or inkling what would the score have been like if he did. I see very little point in speculations in a case like this. It could have been great or it could have been bad. Who knows.

[Morlock 9]

I don't know, and I don't care. All I know is that IMO, unlike Stefan, Supergirl's theme doesn't begin to approach the greatness of the Superman theme.

[Maestro 57]

What's so spectacularly different about Superman? I've never understood the big buzz.

[robthehand 3]

Different from what?

[Lurker 5]

Would a Goldsmith Superman score be good enough to mean not getting one of his 6 1978 scores? That year we got The Boys from Brazil, Capricorn One, Coma, Damien: Omen II, Magic and The Swarm. I'm not sure I'd be willing to give one of those up.

Neil

[Maestro 57]

What I meant was, why is it so great? I like the themes, but this score just doesn't stand out to me above a lot of his other works. Why is it considered so brilliant?

[robthehand 3]

Great themes, great non-thematic cues, involving - never dull, reminds you of a great film, well played, composed, orchestrated, conducted (I suppose), and, well, better than most other scores.

[Maestro 57]

I think the unfortunately poor quality of the film leaves an equally unfortunate (and undeserved) bad taste in my mouth, preventing me from fully appreciating Johnny's score.

[AC1 3,565]

I think the unfortunately poor quality of the film leaves an equally unfortunate (and undeserved) bad taste in my mouth, preventing me from fully appreciating Johnny's score.

Say what you want, but Superman The Movie is not "poor quality".

[Lurker 5]

I think the unfortunately poor quality of the film leaves an equally unfortunate (and undeserved) bad taste in my mouth, preventing me from fully appreciating Johnny's score.

Say what you want, but Superman The Movie is not "poor quality".

I concur.

Neil

[Maestro 57]

In the future, we will all have the same opinions.

[ChrisAfonso 159]

No, it's not. But it's not very engaging either (the latter half of the film).

[AC1 3,565]

No, it's not. But it's not very engaging either (the latter half of the film).

I agree that the first part is the best part.

[ChrisAfonso 159]

The whole thing with Luthor and Otis and the woman just plays out like bad comedy.

(Ok, the "Otisburgh" gag was funny)

[Morlock 9]

Me too, both score-wise and film-wise.

Morlock- who does not think the film is as great as some here would have us believe, but it is certainly not poor quality.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

No, it's not. But it's not very engaging either (the latter half of the film).

I agree that the first part is the best part.

Same goes for the score.

[AC1 3,565]

Me too, both score-wise and film-wise.

 Morlock- who does not think the film is as great as some here would have us believe, but it is certainly not poor quality.

The performance of Chris Reeve is reason enough not to call it "poor quality".

And to be completely honest, I like everyone's performance in Superman The Movie. Glenn Ford as Pa Kent is downright touching. Hackman is very funny. I felt Margot Kidder was truly impressed with Superman (the character). Then there's Marlon Brando saying goodbye to his son :cry: .

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Alex Cremers

[Morlock 9]

I'm not that thrilled with Kidder in the film, but I love everyone else in it. Ned Beatty is notable in his absence from your list, methinks.....

[AC1 3,565]

Brilliant!

[Lurker 5]

Me too, both score-wise and film-wise.

 Morlock- who does not think the film is as great as some here would have us believe, but it is certainly not poor quality.

The performance of Chris Reeve is reason enough not to call it "poor quality".

And to be completely honest, I like everyone's performance in Superman The Movie. Glenn Ford as Pa Kent is downright touching. Hackman is very funny. I felt Margot Kidder was truly impressed with Superman (the character). Then there's Marlon Brando saying goodbye to his son :cry: .

---------------

Alex Cremers

The acting, the score, the photography, the editing, the respect for the character, and the effects all contribute to this. It utilized top talents in every capacity and spared no expense in bringing to life a beloved character. This movie gets everything right.

Neil

[AC1 3,565]

But why, oh, why did they had to insert that cheesy scene for the DVD (Supes defying all Luthor's assaults, the four elements)???

[nightscape94 965]

I concur.

Tim

[Lurker 5]

But why, oh, why did they had to insert that cheesy scene for the DVD (Supes defying all Luthor's assaults, the four elements)???

Just one of the many reasons why I find that DVD unwatchable.

Neil

[Maestro 57]

It's too slow, it's outdated, Lex Luthor was COMPLETELY miscast, the humor and the feel are entirely too campy. It's a slapstick, inconsistent treatment of the Superman story. It's too dumb and silly to take seriously, even when it's begging the audience to do so. Christopher Reeve did do a good job, and so did John Williams. But the fatal flaw is that it was made by a bunch of old men who don't understand or take seriously the comic book legend, and therefore couldn't connect with the premise and the characters well enough to produce a respectable film.

[Morlock 9]

But why, oh, why did they had to insert that cheesy scene for the DVD (Supes defying all Luthor's assaults, the four elements)???

It does kind of work, to show Luthor trying to have fun with Superman, but I guess you get enough of that in the scene immidiatley following it.

[Lurker 5]

it's outdated

I've never understood this comment. How is this movie any more outdated then something like Rocky? They both clearly take place in a similar era and both deal with universal themes, one on a more personal level while the other one is a bit more epic. I'll let you pick which is which.

Lex Luthor was COMPLETELY miscast

I disagree, and when he wants to be menacing he pulls it off.

the humor and the feel are entirely too campy

You want camp, watch Batman - The Movie from 1966. There is nothing campy about Superman - The Movie. It never once gets caught up in itself. It completely takes the idea of a man flying around wearing a cape completely seriously.

...the fatal flaw is that it was made by a bunch of old men who don't understand or take seriously the comic book legend, and therefore couldn't connect with the premise and the characters well enough to produce a respectable film.

This statement is the clincher. You really don't know what you are talking about. Do some research and read the interviews with Richard Donner and see everything he did to get this character and story brought properly to the screen. He had total respect for the character and the premise and it comes through in the film.

You don't have to like the film, but making a statement like that shows you totally missed the point.

Neil

[nightscape94 965]

Since I don't have the DVD, care to explain what scene you guys are talking about?

Tim

[Morlock 9]

When Luthor uses the special frequency to speak to Superman, andbids him to come to his lair, on the DVD version, Superman first of all goes through a few traps set by Luthor, of Firse, Ice, Bullets and one or two other things, before breaking down the door and entering Luthor's Lair (when Luthor unfurls his plan).

Morlock- who incidentaly thinks that Luthor's "It's open, come in" is the funniest line in the film.

[nightscape94 965]

Wow, that's a bit odd, and I can understand why it was cut originally. It seems that when he calls him to the lair, a scene like that would impede the flow of the film unnecessarily.

Tim

[AC1 3,565]

It's too slow, it's outdated

Or, you are f*cked by MTV. Is everything that isn't stroboscopically fast automatically outdated? Alien is slow, Space Odyssey even slower. Are these movies outdated by Van Helsing or other similar fast vehicles? The faster, the better? Has it come to this?

And if it's indeed outdated, who cares, soon Brian singer will unleash the ultimate Supes movie on us .

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Lurker 5]

When Luthor uses the special frequency to speak to Superman, andbids him to come to his lair, on the DVD version, Superman first of all goes through a few traps set by Luthor, of Firse, Ice, Bullets and one or two other things, before breaking down the door and entering Luthor's Lair (when Luthor unfurls his plan).  

 Morlock- who incidentaly thinks that Luthor's "It's open, come in" is the funniest line in the film.

You're ignoring the fact that Otis says earlier in the movie, "Fire and bullets can't hurt this guy...". If that idiot knows it, why does Lex Luthor, "the greatest criminal mind of our time", bother to test him?

The scene is superfluous (no pun intended).

Neil

[Morlock 9]

I did not remember that line.

[robthehand 3]

The first half of the film is one of the best halves ever made, the second half is merely "very very good". Any campiness (and there's hardly any IMO) is deliberate, and well-handled (e.g. Lois' reaction to Superman's line about "fighting peace and justice and the American way" or whatever it was ).

- Rob, who thinks that Kevin Spacey might make a better Lex Luthor.

[nightscape94 965]

Rob, who thinks that Kevin Spacey might make a better Lex Luthor.

At least enough to change your avatar

Tim