#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Ok so Anakin is the Chosen One, described in an ancient prophecy.And It is believed the chosen one shall bring balance to the Force, right?The Force has a light and a Dark Side, the light side represented by the Jedi, the Dark Side by the Sith, right?Still with me here?In the Prequels the Jedi are a numerous and powefull Order, while the Sith only number 2, and are forced to lurk in the shadows..So why do all the Jedi seem to think it is a good think that the Force must be balanced, since it will ultimatly lead to either the growth of the Sith Order to the same power and influence that the Jedi have at that time. Or it will mean the Jedi will be all but whiped out, leaving only a few.Balancing the Force seems like a really bad thing any way you slice it, i'm surprised the Jedi didn't kill Anakin the moment Qui-Gon brought that kid to Coruscant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 It's like the birds and the bees. The birds are on one end of the spectrum...the bees on the other...and well...yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Idiots.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 I think Lucas just says it wrong by using the word "balance". It's more of an extermination rather then a balancing.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 Indeed.Not really the same thing, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Lucas lost sight of all reason when he began to dabble with that prophecy thingy in the Prequels. The basic idea Lucas had was that the prophecy refers to the moment when Anakin kills the Emperor and thus restores the balance to the Force (Yoda and handfull of Jedi remained after that rather hideous massacre of the Jedi order but I guess the Force had to balance the odds a little bit for Palpatine). The Jedi did not have a clue to what the hell the prophecy was refering to by that "brings balance to the Force" phrase. That could have meant anything (good prophecies are always so damn ambiguous ). well it meant that after the destruction of the Jedi and after the growth of the Dark Side Anakin destroys the Emperor and from Luke rises the new Jedi order( or something in those lines). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 When you take a minute (no more, no less) to think about it, it is perfectly clear that this Prophecy can only mean trouble.I guess the Jedi didn't have a minute to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Totally eliminating the dark side doesn't sound like it restores balance.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Totally eliminating the dark side doesn't sound like it restores balance.NeilWell there is the status quo of absolute goodness that has never hurt anyone I do not think the prophecy was such a good idea from Lucas. It's like the Midichlorians. He turned his mythic religion science based in one movie. Lets see you Force count from the monitor. Good grief you have more of these parasites in you than Yoda! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Also, killing all the Jedi wouldn't do it. You don't have to be a Jedi by definition to be strong with the Force, do you? You don't have to be trained in the Jedi way. In fact, all living things are surrounded by the Force, whether they can use it for powers or not. The only people using the Force for evil are the Sith. So if balancing the Force means just Vader vs. The Entire Friggin' Universe, that makes it kind of hard, doesn't it?What good does it do anyway? Vader basically kills himself when he chucks Palpatine down the reactor shaft. The moment he snuffs it, the Force is unbalanced again.- Marc, wondering why he's even thinking about this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Well, perhaps the prophecy was made by the Sith and passed on to some Jedi without information of its roots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 The whole SW universe and logic of the saga is not the strongest one around. Lucas keeps mixing it untill nothing makes sense anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Well for me there's too much good stuff in the films to let it be spoiled by the bad stuff. I accept the bad stuff, and don't give it much more thought when watching the films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 When you take a minute (no more, no less) to think about it, it is perfectly clear that this Prophecy can only mean trouble.I guess the Jedi didn't have a minute to think about it.It's this kind of attitude that will prompt Lucas into making 3 more movies in order to fulfill this original idea of balancing the Force, so shut up about it already! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 For me the main problem is the contradiction between all the other people who have contributed to the SW universe and characters (authors, comics artists etc.) and the over riding vision Lucas has. His ideas trash many characters and events in SW galaxy and redraw the whole history of the story. It feels like there are two separate worlds. The sugar coated world Lucas has created and the better SW galaxy that evolved from the old trilogy and all the subsequent books, comics etc.(which are not all by any means brilliant). For me the Prequels did not honour the SW universe but trashed it. It kind of turned from the whole SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,173 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Well, Jedi mistake or not, Vader *did* bring balance to the Force.Marian - LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 How, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Before Anakin: Lots of Jedi + Not Lots of Sith = Unbalanced.After Anakin: Not Lots of Jedi + Not Lots of Sith = Balanced.So Anakin did bring "Balance in Numbers To The Force" I suppose.Perhaps this whole thread is just an example of how thought provoking the Prequels really are. I guess Neil was wrong.Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 But how can you balance it in amount? Isn't there such a thing like a midi-chlorian count? And are these midi-chlorians evil or something? Really, what the censored is this all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Do not mention....those things....in my presence again.Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chlorians midi-chloriansTim, midi-chlorians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Well, the tension between both ends (light and dark) means balance, just as long as there is one end that is more powerful than the other, so it can prevail. In that sense we are not talking about "balance" in the strict sense of the word, but balance with a slightly predominating side. Otherwise both sides are rendered basically useless.Essentially, this means that if the Jedis are too busy fighting the Sith, they will not become drunk with power, which is what happens when you don't have to defend yourself constantly. Which was the main problem the Jedi council had in the Prequels - they had lost their touch by becoming too comfortable. Besides the Jedi can't hope to annihilate evil because without it, there is no good either. By the way, doesn't "balance" have a certain implication of "peace"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Composer_Fan 2 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 What an interesting thought. I never really bothered to ponder on this so-called 'balance'.~Tyler, who cares more about the prequel scores... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 If you concentrate on Star Wars, and forget about the rest then the force remains in balance, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 The word 'Sith' isn't even used in the OT, right?Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 If you concentrate on Star Wars, and forget about the rest then the force remains in balance,Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAsterisk 0 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 There was a blog on the Star Wars site to the effect of the following:Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the force. He did when he killed Sidious, and, in turn, sacrificed himself. Yoda and Obi Wan are dead. Vader and Sidious are dead. They are no Sith, and, by their old definition, there are no Jedi. Luke is a hybrid of both sides, both by heridity and training. He uses anger. He is not calm, cool, and collected in battle. But he is not too far to either end of the Sith-Jedi spectrum; he is in the middle. Thus, balance. Anakin effected this change by, as Vader, eliminating the Sith from the equation, and leving Luke alone in the middle.Again, not my thoughts, but I can't seem to find the original blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Luke: "I am a Jedi, like my father before me."Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAsterisk 0 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 He is a Jedi, yes. Hence the qualifier, "by their old definition." He is not a prototypical Old Republic Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melange 446 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Bringing Balance To The Force?Lucas was confused because he ripped selected areas from the Dune Sagas and tried to paste it together as his own,without quite knowing what it's all about. All ye Star Wars "heathens" would do well to convert to the true path. The one of the Dune Novels. To hell with Lucas and his little droids. Give me Leto the Tyrant and his brooding thoughts over his Golden Path for Humanity, over laser fights and "I'll try spinning. That's a good trick", anyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Balance is not brought to the force at the end of the prequels, it is brought into balance when the Emperor dies. Forget Thrawn, etc. It was supposed to be a happy ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewdog1 50 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 There was a blog on the Star Wars site to the effect of the following:Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the force. He did when he killed Sidious, and, in turn, sacrificed himself. Yoda and Obi Wan are dead. Vader and Sidious are dead. They are no Sith, and, by their old definition, there are no Jedi. Luke is a hybrid of both sides, both by heridity and training. He uses anger. He is not calm, cool, and collected in battle. But he is not too far to either end of the Sith-Jedi spectrum; he is in the middle. Thus, balance. Anakin effected this change by, as Vader, eliminating the Sith from the equation, and leving Luke alone in the middle.Again, not my thoughts, but I can't seem to find the original blog.So it's saying that there was too much good in the universe and not enough bad? Hm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 When TPM was released i thought the Jedi had misinterpreted the prophecy. They didnt know what the balance meant (otherwise they may have not trained anakin and ban Obi-wan after Quigon's petition) ). I thought it was that Anakin killed all the jedi and then just He and Palpatine and Yoda and Obi-wan remained. About the midiclhrorians well they are more or less balanced between those characters)Then EP II and III came, and the explanations of lucas saying the balance was restored by Vader at the end of ROTJ...Now the explanation i find, is that the FORCE, since it is an energy field that flows free thoughout the universe, the Jedi flow with it. And they let it guide them. But the sith Drain power and mold it to their own and this gives unbalance to the force (there will be disturbances in some places, worlds dying, things like that. Pretty much like the typical fantasy story where evil mages drain life to raise in power killing the woods and the animals...).The equilibrium is not about believings, numbers or political sides, its the equilibrium of 'mother nature' which doesnt take sides, it just was, is and has to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaderbait1 1 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 It's like the Midichlorians. He turned his mythic religion science based in one movie.Actually, the whole point of Midichlorians was to show just how misguided theJedi had become. So in a way it was tongue in cheek. Lucas said himself that the Jedi had come to rely falsely on science to explain things that are mystical. In the end of the saga, all things return to the mystical. Perhaps that is the balance that the prophecy returns to? It is only being used for it's original purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Out of which crevice did Lucas pull that explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Out of which crevice did Lucas pull that explanation? The better question is when did he come up with that explanation. The answer is most undoubtedly after he saw that everyone hated the idea.Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAsterisk 0 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 So it's saying that there was too much good in the universe and not enough bad? Hm.Well, we've already agreed that the Jedi greatly outnumbered the Sith, so good outnumbered bad. That's not balance. So no, that's not what it's saying; but that is the given basis of what we're all saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Maybe he just meant 'balance' as in 'stability' and not so much in thinking of it as an equal scale. Stability is simply the presence of good, or the light, and when their is darkness things are NOT stable. So, in a sense, wiping out the Sith brings balance by making it more stable and calm. Ergo, there is no threat.Tim, grasping at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 I have an "its not the gun that kills people, people kill people" attitude about it. The Force itself is just one energy, one power. It is the users of it that are either light or dark. Light side force users it would seem use the Force very sparingly or very subtley. Dark users use it for bobasting evil things, obvious stuff like the lightnig, choking, ect. The balance is in the usage of the Force, sort of keeping it to a minimum. That way there isn't just Jedi subtleties and bombastic Sith powers, just the Force. It's hard for me to explain, but it makes sense in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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