Clemenssen reviews Memoirs of a Geisha and GOF

[Incanus 5,713]

Clemenssen is finally reviewing newer scores and Memoirs and GOf are the newest in line. I actually (for once) agreed on many points with Christian in these reviews.

Link

[QMM 4]

Link?

[Sandor 796]

I really admire Clemmensen. I think he has one of the most interesting film music sites on the internet.

However; lately I've been wondering if I'm going deaf. Just read his GOF review and the one over at http://www.moviemusicuk.us/harrypotter4cd.htm and I'm so wondering what these guys are hearing that I don't.

Normally speaking I like things generally not liked by Williams' fans: Star Wars prequels, The Matrix trilogy, Gladiator, Hans Zimmer, The Lord Of The Rings (films and score), Horner's Titanic,... so that's not it.

What is SO GREAT about GOF (***** star score, best of the year, etc.)? It's a good score with some nice tracks (Harry In Winter, the Waltzes, the Hymn, and all), but it's far removed from, let's say, POA.

What am I not hearing?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

One things for sure, it cannot be worse then The Chamber Of Secrets.

[Sandor 796]

At least COS had Fawkes The Phoenix.

That track ALONE is better than all of GOF IMHO.

[Sandor 796]

It's like how Billy Joel's Goodnight Saigon is better than the entire repertoire of 2 Unlimited. I would rather listen to that one song for 2 and half hours than a marathon of euro-techno "fun".

[Incanus 5,713]

I think GOF is a solid but average score with few moments of brilliance (Harry in Winter, Hogwarts Hymn, Foreign Visitors Arrive and in part Voldemort). I honestly do not find the score as brilliant as many sites have lauded it.

And Chamber of Secrets has very strong themes that are not utilized by Williams Ross to their fullest extent. Who knows how brilliant the score would have been if Williams had composed it entirely. Thus you can't properly compare COS with GOF IMO.

[Sandor 796]

Harry In Winter is good, but NOT brilliance. It's not that different from the most simplistic James Horner theme. Or even something New Age like David Arkenstone.

If Harry In Winter is brilliant film music than the classical-buffoons are right about our beloved medium.

[Incanus 5,713]

I like Harry in Winter but perhaps brilliant was too strong a word to describe it. The score certainly does not compare with Williams' Potter music IMO.

And the problem with the continuity of Potter music that Clemmensen mentioned is something I acknowledge. I fing Doyle's score hard to listen since it does not sound like HP. There is not that feeling Williams conjured up with his scores. Sure there are two fleeting performances of Hedwig's theme but that's it. I find this simply frustrating.

[Sandor 796]

Yoda style: " I agree "

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

At least COS had Fawkes The Phoenix.

That track ALONE is better than all of GOF IMHO.

I happen to think it's a rather cheesy piece of music.

And even worse, it's poor film music.

It has very little to do with the character in the film, or the actual film itself.

Why Williams wasted time on a full concert piece even though he could have used it on some actual film score is beyond me, wasn't he on a very tight deadline?

Most overrated Williams theme in recent years IMO, moreso then even Across The Stars and Battle Of The Heroes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I like Harry in Winter but perhaps brilliant was too strong a word to describe it. The score certainly does not compare with Williams' Potter music IMO.

Does it provide a strong support to the film?

That's what's really important here.

I lost faith in Clemmensen when he began rating the effectiveness of a score in it's film, long before said film was even released.

[MAG-SI 10]

What am I not hearing?

I'm also wondering that!

Do I have the wrong mp3s of this score or what?

[Incanus 5,713]

At least COS had Fawkes The Phoenix.

That track ALONE is better than all of GOF IMHO.

I happen to think it's a rather cheesy piece of music.

And even worse, it's poor film music.

It has very little to do with the character in the film, or the actual film itself.

Why Williams wasted time on a full concert piece even though he could have used it on some actual film score is beyond me, wasn't he on a very tight deadline?

Most overrated Williams theme in recent years IMO, moreso then even Across The Stars and Battle Of The Heroes.

Fawkes as a character is nothing special either. But I think Williams wrote a great theme for such an insignificant bird. How can the theme be poor film music since it was used in only two scenes in the whole movie and quite appropriately IMO.

How can you say something is overrated if people genuienly like the themes. But all you Acrsoss the Stars, Fawkes and BotH haters come out come out where ever you are.

[nightscape94 965]

This topic was already brought up by me here and was also brought up recently here

Tim

[Incanus 5,713]

This topic was already brought up here

Tim

The Williams' Potter music VS Doyle's debate or the super praising reviews of the Doyle's Potter music?

[nightscape94 965]

I just updated my post because I remembered announcing Clemenssen's comeback on the "Is Filmtracks Dead" thread a few days ago. I was just calling atttention to the that I was the first to break this exciting news...

And that discussions already died about them, because, I suppose, Clemenssen isn't all that great.

Tim, taking credit

[Incanus 5,713]

That's the spirit! Never let anyone steal your credit Tim!

[nightscape94 965]

Don't make me out to be a bad guy :cry:

Tim

[Incanus 5,713]

Don't make me out to be a bad guy :cry:

Tim

No no that was never my intention Tim.

[nightscape94 965]

I lost faith in Clemmensen when he began rating the effectiveness of a score in it's film, long before said film was even released.

He does have a strange tendency to write a review like he's seen the movie. I don't know how that is, unless he's seen advanced screenings, but I've read reviews that have come out almost a month before the respective movie, and he'll describe how it works with the action or emotions on screen.

Tim

[Incanus 5,713]

I lost faith in Clemmensen when he began rating the effectiveness of a score in it's film, long before said film was even released.

He does have a strange tendency to write a review like he's seen the movie. I don't know how that is, unless he's seen advanced screenings, but I've read reviews that have come out almost a month before the respective movie, and he'll describe how it works with the action or emotions on screen.

Tim

That is strange tendency but what enfuriates me even more is the Clemmensen's myriad ratings for the scores. His "heard outside the movie", "heard as an album" and "overall ratings" are not very helpfull since the rating can vary from context to context so much that their average is very shaky way to evaluate an album. He gave Potter album 5 stars and in the film music gets 3 stars. This time the overall rating is reasonably 4 stars but in many reviews "score heard through a brick wall" rating drops the average by 2 stars even when the album gets good review. That is just silly.

Also it is funny to see Christian mainly bashing a score in a review but give it 5 stars. Now that is rare.

Clemmensen's Memoirs review was quite good but once again I got the impression he was dead bored when he wrote the review. He has gotten quite cynical about Williams and that shows. Nothing seems to impress him very much anymore. "It is Williams so blah blah blah... 4 stars, end of story". Obviously Memoirs did not overtly impress Clemmensen.

[nightscape94 965]

Well his score rating for Revenge of the Sith was absolutely ridiculous. But if you read his review for Goblet of Fire it doesn't sound like a good review, and the last paragraph is dedicated to comparing it against Williams' stronger themes and how Doyle failed on all levels to make it flow from the previous scores. I don't get how he ends up salvaging it in the last couple lines to give it a 5 star "on its own merits" rating. The overall is only 4 stars, which is what he gave all of Williams' scores. Of course he didn't bother to give Williams' a "how it works in the film" rating. Clemmensen even goes on to praise a handful of JW's themes like the Quidditch, family, and original Hedwig's theme...

Tim

[Lurker 5]

Once again, can someone please tell me why I should care about what this guy thinks? I never see threads saying, "Jeff Bond Reviews __________" or "Tom Daish Reviews __________" and these guys are better writers. Clemenssen is a glorified message board poster, and I can't understand why so many swarm to his site and get so worked up over his reviews.

Neil

[nightscape94 965]

Beats me. That's why I keep making fun of him.

Tim

[Incanus 5,713]

Neil we like to bash Clemmensen's reviews here His site is the one we all tend to browse through and read the reviews but also he writes the most mind boglingly strange reviews which are nice to bash from time to time. If that makes me a bad person then let it. I do not know what drives us all to his site. It must be cursed or something It is like the Bermuda's Triangle of film music review sites. We all get mysteriously pulled in there and after that there is no return.

[Melange 446]

Clearly "everybody" cares Neil (even you). Because once again he get's people attention. The guy is so sucessfull at getting his name talked about, and so notorious. People do seem to flock to hear what other people have to say, and this guy probably knows just what will get the squabbling going, when he writes reviews. He must love it. Although i rarely visit his site, and sometimes i may not agree with his reviews, it's always nice to hear what other people think and then not take it to heart. I agree that some take reviews too seriously.

[Lurker 5]

Clearly "everybody" cares Neil (even you).

I haven't been to his site in years. I don't care for his reviews. And I don't understand why he's always being brought up. If you don't like him, ignore him, and stop wasting everyones time bringing him up.

Neil

[HPFAN_2 0]

Clearly "everybody" cares Neil (even you).

I haven't been to his site in years. I don't care for his reviews. And I don't understand why he's always being brought up. If you don't like him, ignore him, and stop wasting everyones time bringing him up.

Neil

I was going to say the exact same thing.

HPFAN_2 - Who thinks that also applies to the Academy.

[Justin 2]

Oh my GOD! Five stars for GoF? No WAY is it better than PoA or CoS or SS. Any cue in any of Williams scores is a thousand times better than Patrick Doyles entire body of compositions. In fact, any cue from CoS is the greatest composition of all time. Christian Clemmenson is an IDIOT. AN IDIOT! For thinking otherwise. He is the dumbest man of all time. He's dumber than dumber from that movie Dumb and Dumber! F**K YOU CLEMMENSON!

Not.

Justin -

[SturgisPodmore 0]

>cough--suckup--cough<

~Sturgis -

[Ollie 1,059]

I haven't been to his site in years.  I don't care for his reviews.  And I don't understand why he's always being brought up.  If you don't like him, ignore him, and stop wasting everyones time bringing him up.

Neil

Thank you.

[JMan 0]

THank you also. I think he sucks. Sorcerer's Stone is way better than the new one!!!! And Memoirs does and will kick ass!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

sorry Stefan, but GOF is not as good a score as COS, not by a long shot.

[Sandor 796]

Oh my GOD! Five stars for GoF? No WAY is it better than PoA or CoS or SS. Any cue in any of Williams scores is a thousand times better than Patrick Doyles entire body of compositions. In fact, any cue from CoS is the greatest composition of all time. Christian Clemmenson is an IDIOT. AN IDIOT! For thinking otherwise. He is the dumbest man of all time. He's dumber than dumber from that movie Dumb and Dumber! F**K YOU CLEMMENSON!

OMG.... Justin please leave the irony and cynical responses to those who are clearly more capable of it than you...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Doyle...

[Hlao-roo 389]

Clearly "everybody" cares Neil (even you).

I haven't been to his site in years. I don't care for his reviews. And I don't understand why he's always being brought up. If you don't like him, ignore him, and stop wasting everyones time bringing him up.

I'm not sure that it's reasonable for you to have an opinion about his current reviews if you haven't read them. Perhaps his writing has improved since your last Filmtracks visit "years" ago.

I do agree with you that Jeff Bond is a better writer and reviewer. As are Doug Adams and Jonathan Broxton. I would also add Jeffrey Wheeler, John Takis, Frank Lehman, and Scott Fields, but unfortunately I haven't seen much from them of late.

[Melange 446]

Clearly "everybody" cares Neil (even you).

I haven't been to his site in years. I don't care for his reviews. And I don't understand why he's always being brought up. If you don't like him, ignore him, and stop wasting everyones time bringing him up.

Neil

Well, he's being brought up because he's controversial. If people don't like him, that doesn't mean he should automatically be ignored does it? A lot of people don't like what The President of the U.S says, but they can't ignore him can they. Similar situation. Controversy makes for interesting reading, and that's why it seems people are pulled towards his site. Furthermore, what's this "Everybody" in regard to time being wasted? I would say that''s probably just the view of a few, Neil. Would you agree? Posts about this guy's reviews always seems to get lots of reponses, and that's a good thing for a message board, right? Keeps interest going

[Sandor 796]

Clemmensen isn't half as controversial as people on this board like to believe. He's simply a good reviewer. His "score in the movie" ratings are weird and sometimes absurd when he hasn't seen the film yet, but I understand his logic behind it. A score like Se7en may be hard to swallow when listening to it solely on CD, but in the film it does wonders.

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, quite honestly, what can you say about a guy who gives The Terminal 5 stars and PoA and RotS 4 stars??? He's either nuts (not to step on anybody's toes here), or he's started accepting bribes, and JW is the only one who doesn't give him any money.

P.S. But I have to agree, I don't care much about his opinion, either.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

He just put ROTS 4 stras becasue Joe said he would give it 5 (predictably, as with every other SW score).

He got upset and so...

WHo cares anyway

[Incanus 5,713]

He just put ROTS 4 stras becasue Joe said he would give it 5 (predictably, as with every other SW score).

He got upset and so...

WHo cares anyway

We mainly hope to get a validation for our opinions from the reviews we read and when they disagree we get all fired up and attack the writer for being stupid and disagreeing with us (I am as guilty to this crime as the next man). That is always the case with opinions. There is no one true answer and that is why it is nice to argue one's tastes over the reviewer's. This usually comes out as an attack and ridicule rather than composed or constructive answer for that review. We can't help ourselves

[robthehand 3]

He just put ROTS 4 stras becasue Joe said he would give it 5 (predictably, as with every other SW score).

He got upset and so...

WHo cares anyway

We mainly hope to get a validation for our opinions from the reviews we read and when they disagree we get all fired up and attack the writer for being stupid and disagreeing with us (I am as guilty to this crime as the next man). That is always the case with opinions. There is no one true answer and that is why it is nice to argue one's tastes over the reviewer's. This usually comes out as an attack and ridicule rather than composed or constructive answer for that review. We can't help ourselves

But we need to find some way to enjoy life, don't we?

[Justin 2]

Oh my GOD! Five stars for GoF? No WAY is it better than PoA or CoS or SS. Any cue in any of Williams scores is a thousand times better than Patrick Doyles entire body of compositions. In fact, any cue from CoS is the greatest composition of all time. Christian Clemmenson is an IDIOT. AN IDIOT! For thinking otherwise. He is the dumbest man of all time. He's dumber than dumber from that movie Dumb and Dumber! F**K YOU CLEMMENSON!

OMG.... Justin please leave the irony and cynical responses to those who are clearly more capable of it than you...

Cynical? That post was intended to be purely unpleasent.

Justin

[gkgyver 1,645]

How can you give that piece of meandering crap FIVE (***** !) stars?

Where is that thematic clarity everyone's talking about? How can you notice the difference between a harp and a trumpet, but NOT hear the Force theme in GoF?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've never heard a more shameless ripoff.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Are you talking about the new theme for Harry? If so, it's only a few notes that are similar, and it's MAJOR as opposed to MINOR. There's really no connection to speak of.

Ray Barnsbury

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Clemmensen isn't half as controversial as people on this board like to believe. He's simply a good reviewer

no he's merely an average reviewer with his own showcase,

by the way I thought that Doyle stole from Shore in the opening track, sounds just like FOTR, yuck

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

To be honest I have to agree with Clemmy on GoF. Though 5 stars "alone" is too high. Try 4. Thematically there's not a lot of Williams level strong memorable stuff, but there's some very fantastic moments that really pull you in as you listen to it...though they often don't "stick" with you.

It's grown on me the more I listen to it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

To be honest I have to agree with Clemmy on GoF. Though 5 stars "alone" is too high. Try 4.  

so where do you agree with Clemmy???

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I coulda sworn I wrote more after that. One of us must be imagining things.