The best composer that ever lived

[tony69 0]

John williams isn't on my best composer list. For me, the best composers are in ascending order:

Bach

Beethoven

Wagner

Strauss (Richard)

Bartok/Stravinsky (kinda on the same level).

John Williams is a fine composer, probably one of the best film composers alive today. But i think he's more of a Mendelssohn, Dvorak or Tchaikovsky IMO, both of whom fine music but had significant flaws. JW however does not come close to comparing with the best, at least not yet. I know some people on this board will attempt to murder me for saying that, but that is what i truly believe from a musician's perspective.

We'll have to see with his late scores. Often when a composer reaches their last section of their life, the works become so introspective its amazing. Like Tchaikovsky's 6th, one of his last pieces. It truly is unlike anything he's written before. or mozart's requiem, mahler's 9th (or 10th).

[tony69 0]

wow, williams destroying bach? Bach boring?

Let's see who acknowledges Bach's importance. Just about most of the significant composers all say Bach is up there. I can bet you anything if you ask williams, he will also say he respects Bach greatly. And that is saying something. Bach's music is so technically complicated and interesting, he has never been wrong in any of his compositions! you'd think writing 7 pieces a week (or more) would put the pressure and make him write mistakes harmonically, or melodically, but no. Bach's music always sounds right. his chorales were perfect in resonance and everythign (perhaps because he wrote gazillions a day, so he knew instinctively what was write ). one thing that bach has taught everyone is to think horizontally, and not vertically, and the brandenburg is an excellent example of this. unfortunately too many film composers think vertically (ex. Shore) and its a problem. people play their lines melodically, and hence, they should also remember the forward aspect while thinking vertically, not just vertically.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

You made a sweeping negative statement about the music of Bach when you clearly know next to nothing about it, and that's really sad.

Which is basically a summary of this useless thread. Broad statements without even a hint of an argument. I find it more sad that so many here are missing out on some great music.

[nightscape94 965]

But to say he's the be all and end all, and to say he's better then any of the serious Classical and Romantic composers or most contemporary composers like Williams, who has more complexities in his pinky then Bach did in all of his fingers is also naive.  Bach began something that started a whole new life in music, but it doesn't end with him, and more prolific composers have done better.

Tim

You honestly accuse Bach's music of being less complex than that of John Williams? Now who's being naive? Have you ever taken the time to analyze a Bach fugue. The linear intricacy, motivic development, counterpoint and inernal structure is far more complex than anything Williams has offered. And as for your final comment, do you even know what the word prolific means? Bach's output was almost super-human! His complete works FILL almost 200 CDs! Name a single composer more prolific than that.

I hate having to make negative comments about John Williams, who is one of my all-time favourite composers, but I couldn't ignore your last post. You made a sweeping negative statement about the music of Bach when you clearly know next to nothing about it, and that's really sad.

The fact that you had to resort to calling me unenlightened of Bach's music is an ignorant thing to say, and I'm sorry that you had to stoop that low. The fact remains, I didn't take time out of my day to explain to you the various "linear intricacy, motivic development, counterpoint and internal structure" of Williams music because it isn't my job. I made a comment that I simply feel that Williams offers more then Bach does, hands down. You want me to honestly say that Williams is more complex...so that's exactly what I'm saying. Just because we have an obvious difference of opinion, don't accuse me of anything because it doesn't suit your tastes. And don't assume that I know "next to nothing" about Bach, or music in general, because I didn't bother to go into detail.

Oh, and I do understand the what the word "prolific" means, though I wasn't talking about productivity, like yourself. There is more meaning then that in the word, and I suggest you look it up before saying such a bold statement. I was speaking of an abundance of "inventiveness", which I believe Williams possesses in greater quantity then Bach.

My side was with Williams, and there it remains.

Tim

[pixie_twinkle 48]

You have yet to say anything to show that your comments are based on anything other than your personal preference for Williams' music. Anyway, I won't be drawn further into this. Let's shake hands and be friends in our mutual love of the great JW.

beerchug

[Jeshopk 8]

more of a Mendelssohn, Dvorak or Tchaikovsky IMO, both of whom fine music but had significant flaws.

File that in the opinion column

I hold Williams as high as my favorite classical composers. There's no way that the measure is anything other than personal taste, because his craftsmanship easily matches the best of any era.

[nightscape94 965]

You have yet to say anything to show that your comments are based on anything other than your personal preference for Williams' music. Anyway, I won't be drawn further into this. Let's shake hands and be friends in our mutual love of the great JW.

beerchug

Agreed. I wasn't trying to be a dick.

beerchug

Tim

[HPFAN_2 0]

But seriously guys my choice is still option one. One can argue that Mozart can write much more complex and technicaly thrilling music or that Bach is a genius with melodies. But i've listened to alot of classical music and none of those composers has ever done to me what JW has. His music affects me in a way that no one else has. I remember walking while listening to Becoming a Geisha and when it reached the crescendo I had to stop walking. It was like it hit me and I just couldn't continue. That is why he is the best. Because when I hear The Hunt I clench my fist and close my eyes and feel like i'm going to burst, because I can feel myself flying when I listen to Fawkes the Phoenix, because i've worn out rewind buttons due to the fact that I keep rewinding just to hear some special moment. When Bach, Mozart, Straus etc does that to me then I will rank them with JW. Until then he is surely the man.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Best Film Composer:  Bernard Herrmann

Best Dead Film Composer:  Jerry Goldsmith

I don't even want to know what you did to Herrmann.

Marian - imagining Mother.

[Sandor 796]

Bach's output was almost super-human! His complete works FILL almost 200 CDs! Name a single composer more prolific than that.

Ennio Morricone. Easily.

But i've listened to alot of classical music and none of those composers has ever done to me what JW has.

Exactly how I feel too.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Best Film Composer:  Bernard Herrmann

Best Dead Film Composer:  Jerry Goldsmith

I don't even want to know what you did to Herrmann.

"It's alive! It's aliiiiive!!!!"