No Holds Barred Thread: John Williams vs. Jerry Goldsmith

[Incanus 5,519]

And AOTC sucks. Isn't that right Joe?

[MrAsterisk 0]

There's an employee at my local Borders who looks like some kind of "Johrry Goldiams." I just thought I'd tell you.

[DejaQ 0]

I like both composers very much, but in my opinion, many of Goldsmith's themes seem to be used too loosely. However, I love his Klingon theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Interesting, any examples?

[DejaQ 0]

Well, one thing about Williams is that his themes are usually tied to a specific character or idea, but what Goldsmith's themes (particularly the last three Star Trek movies) seem to represent seem fairly abstract to me. The title theme from First Contact is hard for me to pin down. There is that one moment where Sybok's theme is played in Nemesis. The last thing that comes immediately to my mind is the theme from the ened credits of Nemesis, although I suppose these could be argued.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Well, one thing about Williams is that his themes are usually tied to a specific character or idea, but what Goldsmith's themes (particularly the last three Star Trek movies) seem to represent seem fairly abstract to me. The title theme from First Contact is hard for me to pin down. There is that one moment where Sybok's theme is played in Nemesis. The last thing that comes immediately to my mind is the theme from the ened credits of Nemesis, although I suppose these could be argued.

What is usually referred to as Sybok's theme from The Final Frontier really isn't a theme for that character at all.

If you listen carefully you will notice that that theme is all over the place in many different forms, some very subtle, other very obvious.

Since it doesn't represent a specific character i'm fine with the fact that it was re-used in First Contact and Nemesis.

I agree that the End Credits theme from Nemesis is an odity, but a very rare one for Goldsmith, who is in my mind a lot more consistant in his use of themes then Williams.

A Williams score will often have what I call "set pieces", were a theme is used for one cue, or one scene only. (The Basket Game, The Asteroid Field...etc...etc)

Goldsmith usually has a set of themes that he uses, varies and alters throughout the score, and often the themes are linked to eachother (the 3 new themes for Rambo II all start off with the same 4 notes, the heroic theme and love theme in Timeline as basically the same, though rearranged...etc...etc)

It's rare for Goldsmith to introduce a theme and not see it all the way though, Nemesis is an exception, as is the Baku theme in the opening and closing cues for Insurrection.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I highlight Spiderman, because to think that every hit film will automatically give the film's musical theme legendary status is simply not true. Who remembers the music from Spiderman, Shrek 2, Pirates of the Carribean and other highly succesful films of the last 5 years? Those films HAD themes, but only a select, deeply devoted group of fans will know them.

Why does everyone always pick on Elfman's Spider-Man?

because its such a lackluster effort. I mean really was there music? And if so does anyone care?

I remember a lot of this music very well, yes.

~Sturgis

[Justin 2]

The main titles are the only real memorable cue of both films IMO. I find the rest to be fairly standard Elfman.

As to Goldsmith and Williams, both were and are total and complete masters of their craft. They both still reign the arena of film scoring and blow any competition totally out of the water. They both are and were true composers of this age and no doubt their music will be remembered for generations to come by music and film enthusiasts alike.

Justin

[JoeinAR 1,759]

It should be pointed out that I love Goldsmith much of the time, he might well do more with less, than Williams has done, case in point, Goldsmith has written fantastics scores for alot of bad movies, when Williams gets a bad movie like say AOTC, he writes a terrible score.

Joe, who thinks Goldsmiths' the Mummy is a great score, and loves to listen to it as he goes to sleep.

Joe 2, who must also point out that Jerry did defeat John in the Celebrity Deathmatch.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

I like both composers very much, but in my opinion, many of Goldsmith's themes seem to be used too loosely.

Well, unlike Williams, Goldsmith didn't really use a leitmotif approach most of the time. As Stefan said, he preferred to use themes that organically fit each other instead of "keeping them apart" so that everyone in the audience can recognise them. I like both approaches.

Marian - who loves that avatar.

[Sandor 459]

Marian - who loves that avatar.

But who is it?

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

Mr. DNA, you could say.

Marian - who knows the nose.

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

[DejaQ 0]

Well, unlike Williams, Goldsmith didn't really use a leitmotif approach most of the time. As Stefan said, he preferred to use themes that organically fit each other instead of "keeping them apart" so that everyone in the audience can recognise them.

Yeah, I guess Williams' leitmotif stuck to me after a while. Either way, Goldsmith did a fine job throughout his career.

Marian - who loves that avatar.

This is the second board where someone responded to my DNA avatar...