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The OFFICIAL 'Munich' Score Thread


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Isn't it kind of strange that there is NOT A SINGLE MENTION of the original composer(s) for track 3: Hatikvah (The Hope) to be found inside the CD booklet????

Ok, I can live with Williams not crediting his orchestrators, but it seems he even credits himself now for compositions he didn't write.  

Really, really strange...

I do not have the CD yet only mp3s. It is released here on the 23rd of this month so I'll have to hurry to buy it then.

The music is growing on me on every listening more and more. Superb and clearly quite heartfelt project for Williams.

But it is odd they do not inform in the liners that the Haktivah is not composed by Williams or that he has arranged it since Memoirs of a Geisha CD had clear recognition that the Japanese piece Ogi No Mato on track 14 was an excerpt from an opera and the booklet even listed the performers so I guess it varies from record company to record company. I must admit I would not have had any idea Hatikvah (The Hope) is the Israeli national anthem if I had not read it here on the MB (yes I am an ignorant man who does not know every national anthem in the world by heart).

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Well, I think the way you're looking at it is strange. Isn't it supposed to be a popular source cue? I mean, is anybody mad Danny Elfman quoted "Jingle Bells" in The Nightmare Before Christmas and not saying anything about it in the bootleg?

Oh and just because it's a popular source cue the original composer should not be credited?

And to be honest; the Hatikvah is NO Jingle Bells when it comes to overal familiarity.

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Than hack Williams didn't credit the original composers of the  Krakozhian Nationnal Anthem on The Terminal either.

K.M.

Oh that is infuriating! Krakozhia should sue Williams for exploiting their national anthem and not giving the credit to the Krakozhia's people. :)

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Blame the record company, it's not Williams' job.

That is absolutely right. Williams is not in charge of the art work and design of the CD booklets. They have people just for that specific job at the record companies. Or do they? :?

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I just heard the score for the first time. It's great. However i've heard people commenting that Avner's theme is better than the main theme to Geisha. I was surprised and excited to hear it and now that I have I can simply say that Avner's theme is not even in the same league as Sayuri's Theme. Avner's theme is sad but not as powerful as Sayuri's, Sayuri's seems to fly Avner's doesn't even flutter. But that aside it's still a great score. :thumbup:

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Now that I have listened to the score a few more times I must say it has really grown on me. It has extremely moving parts as well as tense ones. The themes Williams has written are beautiful and I even like the Remembering Munich wailing vocals sung by Lisbeth Scott although at start that was an off putting element. As the movie is about Middle-East I can understand Williams' choice and the lament she is singing sounds powerful voiced in that style.

The suspence is in places rather minimalistic and even dull as a listening experience but cues where the terrorist theme pops up are interesting and tense. That Middle Eastern quality of the theme reminds me of Schindler's List of all scores and the particular track Auschwitz-Birkenau since the cues present same kind of dread and is performed by strings. The steady beat accompanying the theme crops up in cues absent of the theme to remind about the threat. There are also self contained action/suspence tracks like the Letterbombs or Stalking Carl. As an interesting side note cimbalom gives a very nervous edge to the suspence music as it has a jittery unsteady feeling to its sound. A great detail in the orchestration.

The two themes, the Avner's theme and Longing for Home/ Lament for Munich (tracks 1, 4, 8 and 16) are both emotional and lyrical compositions and I do not see any struggling on Williams part in them even if he began composing in the late stage of the post production. They are genuienly touching and once again the soloist performances enhance the compositions and offer variation to the beautiful melodies. A Prayer for Peace, a concertized version of Avner's theme, is a major highlight of the score for me and conveys all the sadness and angst of the main character in a moving string elegy.

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So it's the choice of various record companies NOT to credit the orchestrators on John Williams soundtracks yet THE SAME companies do credit them when other composers release a soundtrack????

And John Williams has NO influence on that???

Do you guys know how RIDICULOUS that sounds?

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So it's the choice of various record companies NOT to credit the orchestrators on John Williams soundtracks yet THE SAME companies do credit them when other composers release a soundtrack????

And John Williams has NO influence on that???

Do you guys know how RIDICULOUS that sounds?

Of course Williams has influence in the CD credits and other liners but I think not all things in the CD sleeve design and details are in his control. I do not think he spends much time pondering the layout of the sleeve notes and colour of the front of a CD sleeve.

But of course I do not know for sure. Perhaps Williams makes a hobby of designing his own CD booklets.

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So it's the choice of various record companies NOT to credit the orchestrators on John Williams soundtracks yet THE SAME companies do credit them when other composers release a soundtrack????

And John Williams has NO influence on that???

Do you guys know how RIDICULOUS that sounds?

Conrad Pope one of John's regular orchestrators has stated that it is John Williams descision not to credit the orchestrators on his CD's.

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I NEVER NEVER NEVER said that Williams has ANYTHING to do with the DESIGN of the CD booklet. That would be weird.

But it's logical that Williams DOES have at least SOMETHING to say about who and what gets credited. I am convinced it is 100% Williams' choice that the orchestrators (for example) are NOT credited.

Of course I'm not at all sure this applies to the lack of the Hatikvah composer(s) too. But don't assume that it is 100% the record company's fault.

Conrad Pope one of John's regular orchestrators has stated that it is John Williams descision not to credit the orchestrators on his CD's.

THANK YOU!

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From this interview.

CP: John’s point is that, he is the author of that music – fully and completely. When you take one of his albums, he is saying, “Look I am the architect of all the colors and you (the orchestrator) have just executed them.” And this makes perfect sense. I’m the same way.

CC: But you are credited in many of the film credits.

CP: Yes. You see, in the picture business the orchestration credit is a specific facet of the “picture” business NOT the “music” business. So John makes sure, once you have achieved a certain status with him, that you’ll get that credit in the picture, but not on the album.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Isn't the original composer of "Jingle Bells " unknown?

K.M.

No. James Pierpoint, a church organist who lived in the mid 1800s, wrote it.

Tim

Maybe the original composer of Hatikvah is unknown?

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I finally saw the movie today and I must admit it is very thought provoking film. The score was used very sparsely but effectively and I am glad Spielberg and Williams did not over score the film since it would have ruined the atmosphere. The idea that the flashbacks were scored worked very well and added to the suspence and the horror of the tragedy tremendously. On the other hands many iterations of the Avner's theme heard on the album are not heard in the film and his thematic identification is not as full as it could have been but I think Williams chose not to over sentimentalize the film and the subject. There is the ditchotomy in the characters the whole time since they are assassins so over doing it musically would have seemed an odd artistic choice. Williams handles Avner's break down in the end half of the movie wonderfully once again refraining from using louder voice but rather steers the scenes with the minimal orchestral underpinnings.

The rhythmic beat motif that is used to signal the assassination preparations and the actual hits is simple but very effective device that works the same way as the shark motif from Jaws. It foreshadows the assassinations and gives a subtle yet very suspenceful identification to the happenings.

The Lament for Munich theme (tracks 1, 4, 8 and 16) that signals both the tragedy and Avner's longing for his family and for home is used only twice in the movie. In the Opening Credits (track 1) and in the very end of the movie (track 4). The other two iterations are both unused and justly so IMO since the movie would not benefit of all the sentimentality as I said before. The Avner and Daphna is heard at the beginning of the end credits before Prayer for Peace.

All in all the score is a winner in my books. This score clearly serves the movie but makes an impact on its own as well. As an album Munich resembles Schindler's List since Williams chose to include concert arrangements and developments of the themes not heard in the movie on the album. On the Munich album we can hear the thematic developments more clearly and get beautiful variarions of the themes that only add to the depth of the music. And now I can appreciate the suspence cues better as I know in what context they were written for. And the more emotional cues have now tremendous effect on me outside the film. They have become even more heartbreaking than before.

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Isn't the original composer of "Jingle Bells " unknown?

K.M.

No. James Pierpoint, a church organist who lived in the mid 1800s, wrote it.

Tim

Maybe the original composer of Hatikvah is unknown?

clicky :shakehead:

Tim

So in the end Williams made an arrangement of music by Smetana, wow. Smetana would've been pleased if he knew.

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Finally i saw it.

I liked the focus, not putting neither as the good guys. But really it not the kind of film i like much.

The score has to be complete on the CD, i for sure didnt heard an hour of music in the movie....

I couldnt say what hativah was, i suppose it is in the beggining, in the TV like krakozia anthem and it is not complete, right?

Luke, going to hear the score just right now. :|

The dutch asassin girl was for Hoorn? I think I heard that. What a coincidence isnt it Steef?

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