Lost

[Datameister 2,042]

Sometimes.

[Red 75]

Yeah, the characters are really essential to the show. The mythology of the Island is really, really important, too, though. I don't think just the characters alone would have been enough. The show is at its best when each side of the story is being used to strengthen the other.

The characters are the show. Everything is character-based, not unlike a novel. The mythology, while important, is contingent on the characters. The show is not about the island, if it was it would be very different. But I agree that the show is at it's best when the two sides, the characters and the mythology, are in sync.

By the way, has anyone see this Season 6 promo? It's amazing, and don't worry it doesn't contain any spoilers or new footage.

[Jay 37,361]

Oh yea, I saw that promo the other week and meant to come here and post a link but forgot. It's an AWESOME teaser

And yes Joe, it's completely spoiler-free

[Datameister 2,042]

I think I might have seen it...is it the one that plays sometimes while watching the show online? If so, yeah, I suppose it was pretty good.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Well if there's no spoilers, why not watch it and not try and guess?

The voiceover talks about how they are all part of a game of chess.

[Datameister 2,042]

Oh, no, I haven't seen it, then. But I think I'm going to avoid watching it, then...because they got it wrong! It's not a game of chess, it's a game of backgammon!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Just watch the damn promo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C56Lgl6DorM

[Datameister 2,042]

Dude, I totally never caught that Kate's horse in "What Kate Did" was probably a descendant of the horses the Others were using in the 70s!

[Red 75]

Dude, I totally never caught that Kate's horse in "What Kate Did" was probably a descendant of the horses the Others were using in the 70s!

I don't know about that.

[Datameister 2,042]

Gotta be. The horse was clearly real, not some apparition...Sawyer saw it, too, and I think the producers have said that it really was an actual horse. We know the Others had horses...it makes sense.

[Red 75]

I believe they characterized it as one of the "undead".

[Datameister 2,042]

Bah, I can't remember now. I sure hope it was a literal horse, though. In retrospect, what use would Jacob's enemy have for making Kate see a horse that she saw once several years ago? And it seems as though he can only do that for dead bodies that are on the Island...so the real horse would still have to be there anyway...

[Red 75]

They called Christian one of the "undead" as well. I seriously doubt it was the Man in Black; I think it was the actual horse. But as far as it being a descendant of the Others' horses, I kind of doubt it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Does it even matter if it was or wasn't?

[Datameister 2,042]

They called Christian one of the "undead" as well.

Right, because he is...he's one of the bodies that Jacob's enemy has started mimicking to get things done.

I think it was the actual horse. But as far as it being a descendant of the Others' horses, I kind of doubt it.

Why? What other horses on the Island would it have descended from?

And yes, Koray, this matters! The fate of the universe is hanging in the balance, darn it!

[Red 75]

Why? What other horses on the Island would it have descended from?

I doesn't have to be a descendant of horses on the island, it could just as easily be a horse from the main land. Also I don't think Christian is MIB, it doesn't add up with everything we've seen him do. For example he tells Locke "say hello to my son for me" just before he turns the wheel and teleports to Tunisia; why would he say this if he wasn't actually Christian? He is certainly in cahoots with MIB, though.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I still think the MIB and the Smoke monster are two separate entities.

[Datameister 2,042]

I don't think Christian is MIB, it doesn't add up with everything we've seen him do. For example he tells Locke "say hello to my son for me" just before he turns the wheel and teleports to Tunisia; why would he say this if he wasn't actually Christian? He is certainly in cahoots with MIB, though.

He has to be! It adds up perfectly. There's a huge number of very intentional parallels between the Christian and Locke apparitions - both were corpses on planes that crashed on the Island, both started appearing shortly thereafter to its living residents (even specifically standing in the water), both started convincing those living residents to take courses of action they never would have - courses of action that all lead slowly but inevitably to Jacob's death. Furthermore, Jacob's mysterious followers (Ilana, Bram, etc.) said someone else had been living in Jacob's cabin, and we'd already seen Christian there. Consider how Christian carefully pushed Locke AND Ben into paths that would lead to the latter killing the former and bringing him back to the Island.

As to the "say hello to my son" thing, that was just a way to help Locke convince Jack. Worked, didn't it?

The two major discrepancies are that Locke hasn't been shown disappearing and reappearing like Christian does, and that Locke's body was still in its coffin whereas Christian was no longer in his. But the former makes sense, considering that we weren't supposed to know that this wasn't Locke until "The Incident", and the latter is probably just a result of the producers having NO idea where the story was going at first...and it was much more mysterious and disturbing to have the coffin be empty.

[Red 75]

Merry Christmas from the Island:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzYnhDIZeAQ

[Datameister 2,042]

My Blu-ray drive arrived today. Got it all set up and popped Lost in...all I can say is WOW. It looks as gorgeous as I hoped it would. All the resolution I'm used to from abc.com, but without the compression...makes me want an even bigger monitor! I'm definitely glad I got this on Blu instead of DVD, and I'm looking forward to watching the last half of season 3 as well as seasons 4 and 5 over the next...three weeks.

[Jay 37,361]

I know, I had hoped to re-watch the entire series before the S6 premiere but I'd have to take a week off from work in order to do so by this point lol

[Datameister 2,042]

Hahahaha...I cheated. I'm only doing season 2-5, since I watched season 1 a few months ago anyway. I'm now in the home stretch of season 3, so I think I'm gonna make it!

[Red 75]

This is the first group pic of the regular cast of Season 6. It's a very interesting and cool image, and isn't really spoilery, but I wouldn't see it if you don't want to know who's going to be a regular.

[Datameister 2,042]

Thank you for spoilering it! It's so nice not having to worry as much about spoilers this season, since there generally just aren't as many out there.

[Jay 37,361]

It's not a spoiler, its a picture of the Season 6 cast. How can that ruin anything? By the way there are 2 versions of that pic, the one RR posted and another one where they are all looking forward

[Datameister 2,042]

By showing, for instance, that Juliet is still a main cast member despite having blown herself to smithereens in a nuclear blast - something I suspect to be the case, but I don't want confirmation.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Exactly, and that's completely fair enough.

Anyway, on the subject of that picture...

It seems to me as if the Island is divided once again; interesting to see the likes of Hurley and Jack siding with Ben and Sun (who could potentially turn corrupt if her post-Island stories are anything to go by). Then again, could be nothing. Just so fascinated with how they've been showing Locke in this and the first promotional pic for the season.

Argh! How long is it now??

[Datameister 2,042]

Oh my goodness, I cannot wait for this season. I'm watching "The Man Behind the Curtain" right now - still one of my very favorite episodes, BTW - and it's just crazy how far back the conflict between Jacob and his enemy goes. In the mid-70s, the latter was already pushing a young Ben toward joining the Others, via visions of his dead mother. His eventual leadership was a crucial link in the chain of events that led to Jacob being killed.

[Red 75]

By the way there are 2 versions of that pic, the one RR posted and another one where they are all looking forward

Some of the characters' positions were changed as well, but I doubt it means anything.

"The Man Behind the Curtain" takes on a whole new meaning in light of the Season 5 finale. Ben's relationship to Jacob seemed so much different then, so much so that I'm tempted to think that the writers changed it along the way. I'm probably wrong though.

[Datameister 2,042]

Yeah, it definitely changes things. I'd imagine the writers didn't have everything figured out at that point...but viewing the episode with knowledge of what's "really" happening, there are parts of Michael Emerson's performance that I can totally read as just that - performance. Whether that's just my perception being changed by what I know or just a (very rare) case of not-so-great acting on his part is anyone's guess.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Are we talking about the cabin scene? We do know that someone occupies that cabin, and we do know that someone was in that chair.

[Incanus 5,714]

Yeah, it definitely changes things. I'd imagine the writers didn't have everything figured out at that point...but viewing the episode with knowledge of what's "really" happening, there are parts of Michael Emerson's performance that I can totally read as just that - performance. Whether that's just my perception being changed by what I know or just a (very rare) case of not-so-great acting on his part is anyone's guess.

I just saw the episode last weekend and was again impressed (definitely one of the best episodes). Emerson's reactions in the cabin were certainly an act from Ben, who was lying for his life at that point, putting on a show and then realizing how something actually was in the cabin and then masterfully playing along because he is the Ben we know and love who can actually make split second decisions when his own good is at stake. I love how Emerson plays the subsequent scenes, where Ben is so envious, so full of quiet hatred for Locke for seeing Jacob, for hearing him when he himself has never been granted that boon. When he shoots Locke and leaves him for dead in the mass grave of the Dharma folk, Emerson embodies pure, selfish evil (his eyes are simply phenomenal at projecting psychotic hate). So much of what Ben does is solely for his own benefit not for the Island, as he thinks he is special or more worthy than others. It makes you wonder how was he changed when he was taken to the temple to be cured and became permanently "one of the Others". He was not turned into a completely slavish servant of the Island (well to a degree yes) but retained a twisted pride and greed and idea of his self-importance.

And it would be very interesting to know how much the larger plot structure was in place by the time "Man Behind the Curtain" was written.

One of the most satisfying aspects of this show is how much there seems to be going on behind the scenes and underneath the apparent action. As we are much like the Losties, being presented a fragmented and deliberately incomplete picture, it has a reality to it. In real life we do not know all the factors affeting any given event, in Lost we are now and then presented these myriad factors but most of the time we get a sense of larger things at work but remain in the dark about the exact details. Frustrating and fascinating at the same time.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

To say I'm confused by all of this doesn't begin to describe.

I'm just looking forward to the final season.

[Datameister 2,042]

Are we talking about the cabin scene? We do know that someone occupies that cabin, and we do know that someone was in that chair.

Yep - Jacob's enemy. He'd taken up residence in what was once Jacob's cabin, and he was working toward getting Locke killed by Ben so Locke could be brought back to the Island dead and have his form assumed by Jacob's enemy, so that he could then persuade Ben to kill Jacob for him. "Help me," says Jacob's enemy. And Locke sure did.

[Red 75]

What's strange to me is that Ben knew about the cabin and where it was located, even though Jacob didn't live there and maybe never lived there. That and the fact that none of the Others question Ben when Locke demands that he take him to see Jacob (especially Richard). Although that is probably on account of the Others not knowing that Ben has never seen Him.

[Incanus 5,714]

What's strange to me is that Ben knew about the cabin and where it was located, even though Jacob didn't live there and maybe never lived there. That and the fact that none of the Others question Ben when Locke demands that he take him to see Jacob (especially Richard). Although that is probably on account of the Others not knowing that Ben has never seen Him.

Yes I thought the exact same thing today. Ben obviously knew about the cabin and its significance but had never seen Jacob. Did Richard tell Ben that the cabin was Jacob's residence or did Richard possibly deliver all those lists from Jacob to Ben at the cabin? What is the significance of the ash circle around the cabin if it really has any? Ilana was disturbed by the fact that the ash circle been broken. It is quite obvious that Jacob's enemy had used the cabin and manipulated several people there.

I also watched Season 4 episode Cabin Fever today and it is wonderful to note how cagey Christian is in the cabin when talking to Locke, how he clearly chooses very carefully his words when talking about Jacob and what John has to do. Christian's look when John asks "How do I save the Island?" is a great combination of nervousness and relieved satisfaction. Obviously something has gone as planned or even better than planned. How Claire figures into the scene is a great question mark. She answers Christian's look in the same manner smiling happily. And later Christian's obvious displeasure at Ben moving the Island and not Locke makes sense after seeing the 5th season as Jacob's enemy wanted Locke away from the Island as part of his plan.

I think the 6th season will be extremely interesting, not the least because I want to see how well they can tie all important loose ends and finish character arcs. So much to do and show, only 18 episodes.

[Datameister 2,042]

Christian's obvious displeasure at Ben moving the Island and not Locke makes sense after seeing the 5th season as Jacob's enemy wanted Locke away from the Island as part of his plan.

Ah, but that was part of the plan, too. "Christian" purposely manipulated the situation so Ben would leave first. Then the resulting chaos give Locke a reason to leave, too, so Ben could kill him and then bring him back.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yes I thought the exact same thing today. Ben obviously knew about the cabin and its significance but had never seen Jacob. Did Richard tell Ben that the cabin was Jacob's residence or did Richard possibly deliver all those lists from Jacob to Ben at the cabin? What is the significance of the ash circle around the cabin if it really has any? Ilana was disturbed by the fact that the ash circle been broken. It is quite obvious that Jacob's enemy had used the cabin and manipulated several people there.

I think the ash circle has to do with confining something. What that something is I have no idea. Ilana said the cabin hadn't been used in a long time. At what point did it stop being used? Was it the 3 year period after the survivors originally left?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Lost, Season 6 theme is I SEE DEAD PEOPL more than ever.

[Datameister 2,042]

You would know, Joey. Hey, it's too bad Evangeline Lilly didn't come back for this season, isn't it?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

well she may be among the dead.

[Datameister 2,042]

My friend, you must have fingers of steel. Button-pushing tends to make mine pretty sore after a while.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

sounds like a personal problem. But I did get your dig, which was fair because the rumor I reported did turn out wrong. My retort is based simply on Juliet's detonating the bomb and they all died and lived.

[Datameister 2,042]

By the way, I'm noticing a big problem as I finish up season 3. =/ Why would "Taller Ghost Walt" (presumably the same Jacobicidal entity as Christian and the Locke-alike) tell John to stop Widmore's people from getting to the Island, when Widmore later seems to be affiliated with that entity? I cannot think of any sensible reason other than the producers simply not thinking far enough ahead.

[Incanus 5,714]

By the way, I'm noticing a big problem as I finish up season 3. =/ Why would "Taller Ghost Walt" (presumably the same Jacobicidal entity as Christian and the Locke-alike) tell John to stop Widmore's people from getting to the Island, when Widmore later seems to be affiliated with that entity? I cannot think of any sensible reason other than the producers simply not thinking far enough ahead.

How is Widmore affiliated to Jacob's enemy? Where is that implied because I sure do not remember any such reference.

[Datameister 2,042]

Widmore and ex-girlfriend Eloise were determined to get the O6 - as well as John in particular - back to the Island, because "there's a war coming." If John wasn't back there (dead), "the wrong side will win." Getting John back to the Island gave Jacob's enemy a way to finally kill Jacob - by manipulating Ben through Locke's body. This makes even more sense when you consider that Widmore and Eloise are both outcasts from Jacob's people, AKA the Others.

Of course, I could be wrong. But it does make sense. The Others (and Ilia's group) are affiliated with Jacob; Widmore's group is affiliated with his enemy.

Argh, crap...if that's the case, how could Smokey be summoned to attack Widmore's mercenaries? I'm confused...

[Quintus 5,399]

The Force.

[fommes 153]

I don't think Widmore and the like really knows who they're affiliated with. Perhaps they think they're 'working' for Jacob, while really they're not. I don't see a problem with tall Walt guy (yet)

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Saiid, Naveen Andrews was on the best show on TV, Law and Order SVU. He is a dynamic actor. I wouldn't be surprised if he is becomes re-occuring regular.

[Red 75]

The Onion reports that Lost's final season will make fans more annoying than ever.