So wait....Vangelis can't read music?

[Romão 2,274]

I kinda like the movie.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

You cant say the same about the score, i hope...

(the movie is not bad)

[Romão 2,274]

Even in the score I like some parts. I like Earth, Patricide and Am I not Merciful?. Zimmer has donne much worse.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Are you sure those are by Zimmer? 8O

IMO, the best cues are the ones from Lisa Gerrad.

Oh, and SHAME ON YOU!

[Romão 2,274]

I like Lisa Stansfield too...

[ChrisAfonso 186]

The Romans, really? I always understood they didn't have music notation, and that's why nobody knows what Roman music sounded like.

Havent you seen gladiator?!? :roll:

You mean the fanfares without any valves playing chromatic flourishes?

[stewdog1 50]

I have never really understood the hate that some people have for Vangelis. I personally think that most of it stems from Chariots of Fire. Then you got the people, a.k.a. elitists, who think that since he has not had the same training as every other musician in the world, believes his music is invalid and not to be taken seriously.

Far be it for him not to be a cookie cutter musician. He personally made a decision early on that he was not going to be like everyone else in his musical training. He's not being pompous when he says that. He feels that he in order for him to produce the kind of music he wants or rather the type of artist he wants to be, he needs to do it the way he wants. That is his choice, and he has been very successful and has made a lot of money from it.

Also, I doubt many of you have even heard anything from him beyond three or four soundtracks. Many of his best works is from his other albums. He is not a classical composer, nor does he claim to be. So cut it out with the elitist attitudes for something you know nothing about.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I was wondering how long it'd take you to join in this thread. Welcome Stew

[stewdog1 50]

I was wondering how long it'd take you to join in this thread. Welcome Stew

I think it's time to bring back my old avatar. It got me fired up!

[tony69 0]

hans zimmer is not a very good musician, according to musicians in the industry. he's good with technology etc, but not what a real composer should be doing. that is, write with a pencil and paper at a piano without layering zillions of things on top of an overly simplistic theme. hans zimmer is also known in the industry as a hummer. he doesn't really read/notate his stuff. he kinda improvises, comes up with a good theme, and midi-inputs it into the computer which notates it for him. hence, his music is overly simplistic and sounds like a bad aeolian melody over and over again.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

hans zimmer is not a very good musician, according to musicians in the industry. he's good with technology etc, but not what a real composer should be doing. that is, write with a pencil and paper at a piano without layering zillions of things on top of an overly simplistic theme. hans zimmer is also known in the industry as a hummer. he doesn't really read/notate his stuff. he kinda improvises, comes up with a good theme, and midi-inputs it into the computer which notates it for him. hence, his music is overly simplistic and sounds like a bad aeolian melody over and over again.

If that's the case, then any half-wit and his dog could be a composer.

:roll:

[Salacius 7]

I have never really understood the hate that some people have for Vangelis.  I personally think that most of it stems from Chariots of Fire.  Then you got the people, a.k.a. elitists, who think that since he has not had the same training as every other musician in the world, believes his music is invalid and not to be taken seriously.

Far be it for him not to be a cookie cutter musician.  He personally made a decision early on that he was not going to be like everyone else in his musical training.  He's not being pompous when he says that.  He feels that he in order for him to produce the kind of music he wants or rather the type of artist he wants to be, he needs to do it the way he wants.  That is his choice, and he has been very successful and has made a lot of money from it.

Also, I doubt many of you have even heard anything from him beyond three or four soundtracks.  Many of his best works is from his other albums.  He is not a classical composer, nor does he claim to be.  So cut it out with the elitist attitudes for something you know nothing about.

Erm...what? :?

I was listening to his early stuff when some people were in their diapers dude, Vangelis Papathanasiou has released a lot of good stuff outside the film world.

But his film scoring is mediocre full stop. I cannot take someone who fuffles about with keyboards and place him next to John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith and all the greats of this craft. Sorry

And with the first grade film music school type of melodies and orchestrations?

Enough, please, no more

[stewdog1 50]

I cannot take someone who fuffles about with keyboards and place him next to John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith and all the greats of this craft. Sorry

Who is? I don't see anybody around here comparing V to those guys.

And with the first grade film music school type of melodies and orchestrations?  

Enough, please, no more

Is there a gun placed to your head that we don't know about?

Besides, V is not about complex melodies and orchestrations. That's not his style, nor should he be required to do such, just because some say so. He is not a classical composer. And considering how talented he is, if he wanted to do complex orchestrations and what not, he could probably do it.

[Salacius 7]

I cannot take someone who fuffles about with keyboards and place him next to John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith and all the greats of this craft. Sorry

Who is? I don't see anybody around here comparing V to those guys.

It's not about comparisons, it's about quality of film music writing.

Just because people like the guy it doesn't mean I cannot express my opinion about his music. And I'm sorry but as a listener I have been 'spoled' by the greats and I cringe when I hear certain cues.

He is a mediocre film music composer and that is that as far as I'm concerned.

Is there a gun placed to your head that we don't know about?

Besides, V is not about complex melodies and orchestrations.  That's not his style, nor should he be required to do such, just because some say so.  He is not a classical composer.  And considering how talented he is, if he wanted to do complex orchestrations and what not, he could probably do it.

OK , look, I stated before why I personally have a problem with people who have this kind of attitude towards music and I'm not about to argue the same thing again.

And my feelings about orchestrations and melodic writing is something that frustrates me about composers for over 6-7 years now. So it wasn't only about 'V' but a more general thing even though it applies to him more than anyone else in the business.

On the other hand I like his other works a lot so it's not like I hate the guy. Film music wise he is not doing it for me and that's all.

[stewdog1 50]

On the other hand I like his other works a lot so it's not like I hate the guy. Film music wise he is not doing it for me and that's all.

Cool. We'll leave it at that. Now go listen to Soil Festivities.

[Salacius 7]

On the other hand I like his other works a lot so it's not like I hate the guy. Film music wise he is not doing it for me and that's all.

Cool. We'll leave it at that. Now go listen to Soil Festivities.

He he, I'll might do if I find some time,

I dug out The Dragon album (197something) the other day and he looked like a werewolf bless him. It was the 70's after all

[stewdog1 50]

On the other hand I like his other works a lot so it's not like I hate the guy. Film music wise he is not doing it for me and that's all.

Cool. We'll leave it at that. Now go listen to Soil Festivities.

He he, I'll might do if I find some time,

I dug out The Dragon album (197something) the other day and he looked like a werewolf bless him. It was the 70's after all

That's one that I don't have.

[A24 4,326]

That's one that I don't have.

A friend of mine has it. Quite freaky stuff.

He is a mediocre film music composer and that is that as far as I'm concerned.

I'm spoiled too but Blade Runner is perfect. He practically IS the movie. He captured the soul of that film. No Williams or Goldsmith could've done it better.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Salacius 7]

He is a mediocre film music composer and that is that as far as I'm concerned.

I'm spoiled too but Blade Runner is perfect. He practically IS the movie. He captured the soul of that film. No Williams or Goldsmith could've done it better.

----------------

Alex Cremers

That's the one movie I like from all of his work on films.

The synths gave the film a colour but I think it's a one off thing.

I did like the film too. It was very unusual for the time.

[stewdog1 50]

He is a mediocre film music composer and that is that as far as I'm concerned.

I'm spoiled too but Blade Runner is perfect. He practically IS the movie. He captured the soul of that film. No Williams or Goldsmith could've done it better.

----------------

Alex Cremers

I couldn't agree more. Which goes to show you that classical style is not always better.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Blader runner is boring both movie and score

[pixie_twinkle 48]

On the other hand I like his other works a lot so it's not like I hate the guy. Film music wise he is not doing it for me and that's all.

Cool. We'll leave it at that. Now go listen to Soil Festivities.

He he, I'll might do if I find some time,

I dug out The Dragon album (197something) the other day and he looked like a werewolf bless him. It was the 70's after all

That's one that I don't have.

Ah, I could copy it (if it's acceptable around here :oops: ) but it's on vinyl

Mucho appreciated if you could put it to CD. PM me if you are willing to do it.

I could hook you up there Stewdog. I have both Hypothesis and The Dragon on vinyl (both bootleg vinyl records.) They both fit onto one CD and I transferred them to CD a few years ago. Both feature violin work by long-time Vangelis friend Michel Ripoche (China). I don't have the CD with me it's in the UK, but I could make you a copy in May when I go back.

James

[A24 4,326]

Blader runner is boring both movie and score

Never heard of it.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Besides, V is not about complex melodies and orchestrations.  That's not his style, nor should he be required to do such, just because some say so.  He is not a classical composer.  And considering how talented he is, if he wanted to do complex orchestrations and what not, he could probably do it.

That's exactly the problem some people (including me) might have... Setting aside the issue if one thinks him overly talented or not, nobody can do complex orchestrations "and what not" with merely talent. That takes training.

-Chris, who doesn't hate Vangelis.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Blader runner is boring both movie and score 8O

Never heard of it.

LOL :oops:

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Blader runner is boring both movie and score 8O

Never heard of it.

LOL :oops:

Movie about replicants with weak runny bladders.

[gkgyver 1,645]

If that's the case, then any half-wit and his dog could be a composer.

So, what's your point then? 8O

I don't *hate* Hans Zimmer, but I don't like him and his attitude. I'll never forgive him what he did to Batman Begins.

[Salacius 7]

Besides, V is not about complex melodies and orchestrations.  That's not his style, nor should he be required to do such, just because some say so.  He is not a classical composer.  And considering how talented he is, if he wanted to do complex orchestrations and what not, he could probably do it.

That's exactly the problem some people (including me) might have... Setting aside the issue if one thinks him overly talented or not, nobody can do complex orchestrations "and what not" with merely talent. That takes training.

-Chris, who doesn't hate Vangelis.

Yeah, that's it,

Also I don't hate Vangelis, I just dislike his film music ethic.

In fact I don't remember hating any composer.

On the other hand I like his other works a lot so it's not like I hate the guy. Film music wise he is not doing it for me and that's all.

Cool. We'll leave it at that. Now go listen to Soil Festivities. 8O

He he, I'll might do if I find some time,

I dug out The Dragon album (197something) the other day and he looked like a werewolf bless him. It was the 70's after all

That's one that I don't have.

Ah, I could copy it (if it's acceptable around here :oops: ) but it's on vinyl

Mucho appreciated if you could put it to CD. PM me if you are willing to do it.

I could hook you up there Stewdog. I have both Hypothesis and The Dragon on vinyl (both bootleg vinyl records.) They both fit onto one CD and I transferred them to CD a few years ago. Both feature violin work by long-time Vangelis friend Michel Ripoche (China). I don't have the CD with me it's in the UK, but I could make you a copy in May when I go back.

James

I think it's best to go with James, it's a pain for me to do a transfer at the mo

[A24 4,326]

So, Salacius, what other works do you know from the Greek?

[Salacius 7]

So, Salacius, what other works do you know from the Greek?

Mainly old stuff and the latest soundtracks,

I was listening to his music when I was a kid but there is no way I can remember titles.

I dug out Dragon the other day and off course I have heard Alexander, 1492 Conquest of paradise and Blade runner.

The synth works I heard ages ago it was the one that got him established (can't remember the title to save my life!)

[A24 4,326]

'Beaubourg'' is experimental and rather complex (in an abstract sense). There's no rhythms or simple, overt melodies on that one.

Alex

[Jacck 23]

Anyone who questions Elfman's composing techniques should watch the featurette on the Men in Black II Bonus DVD.. It's really informative.

Regarding Vagnelis... I'm really not a fan... And like someone else said, compared to the greats like Williams, Goldsmith, Elfman, he's just insignificant.. His music is so bland, and messy, and eugh.

[stewdog1 50]

Besides, V is not about complex melodies and orchestrations.  That's not his style, nor should he be required to do such, just because some say so.  He is not a classical composer.  And considering how talented he is, if he wanted to do complex orchestrations and what not, he could probably do it.

That's exactly the problem some people (including me) might have... Setting aside the issue if one thinks him overly talented or not, nobody can do complex orchestrations "and what not" with merely talent. That takes training.

-Chris, who doesn't hate Vangelis.

I hear what you say. I'm didn't mean to say that he could just simply start doing it he wanted to. Just that considering how talented he is, that if he wanted to he could. Of course all the training would come with that. I think he's a bit too old now to start.

On the other hand I like his other works a lot so it's not like I hate the guy. Film music wise he is not doing it for me and that's all.

Cool. We'll leave it at that. Now go listen to Soil Festivities.

He he, I'll might do if I find some time,

I dug out The Dragon album (197something) the other day and he looked like a werewolf bless him. It was the 70's after all

That's one that I don't have.

Ah, I could copy it (if it's acceptable around here :oops: ) but it's on vinyl

Mucho appreciated if you could put it to CD. PM me if you are willing to do it.

I could hook you up there Stewdog. I have both Hypothesis and The Dragon on vinyl (both bootleg vinyl records.) They both fit onto one CD and I transferred them to CD a few years ago. Both feature violin work by long-time Vangelis friend Michel Ripoche (China). I don't have the CD with me it's in the UK, but I could make you a copy in May when I go back.

James

That would be sweet! Hook up a brotha from antha motha! Actually that would be greatly appreciated. Just let me know when you are able to do it. I'll pay for shipping if need be.

thanks,

Dave

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I have never really understood the hate that some people have for Vangelis.  I personally think that most of it stems from Chariots of Fire.  Then you got the people, a.k.a. elitists, who think that since he has not had the same training as every other musician in the world, believes his music is invalid and not to be taken seriously

Oddly, I just finished watching Chariots of Fire for the first time ever just a few mins ago. With the exception of the excellent main theme (which AFAIK was only used in the end credits, though i admit to missing the first hlf hr), I simply cannot believe this was chosen over Raiders!

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I hear what you say.  I'm didn't mean to say that he could just simply start doing it he wanted to.  Just that considering how talented he is, that if he wanted to he could.  Of course all the training would come with that.  I think he's a bit too old now to start.  

Yes... and if I took some years of courses I could make splendid vases from clay. Does that mean I am a genial potter right now? All your saying is Vangelis could be a great composer... he isn't as of now

[stewdog1 50]

I hear what you say.  I'm didn't mean to say that he could just simply start doing it he wanted to.  Just that considering how talented he is, that if he wanted to he could.  Of course all the training would come with that.  I think he's a bit too old now to start.  

Yes... and if I took some years of courses I could make splendid vases from clay. Does that mean I am a genial potter right now? All your saying is Vangelis could be a great composer... he isn't as of now

He is a great composer as of now, he just isn't a classical composer.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

All this chat has got me onto a Vangelis kick. I've just ordered a CD of Earth, his 1973 masterpiece. It used to be one of my my favourite albums back in the day. As I haven't had a record player in about 15 years it must have been at least that long since I last heard it. It'll be interesting to see if it really is as mind-blowingly good as I remember.

[stewdog1 50]

All this chat has got me onto a Vangelis kick. I've just ordered a CD of Earth, his 1973 masterpiece. It used to be one of my my favourite albums back in the day. As I haven't had a record player in about 15 years it must have been at least that long since I last heard it. It'll be interesting to see if it really is as mind-blowingly good as I remember.

Where did you order that CD from?

[A24 4,326]

All this chat has got me onto a Vangelis kick. I've just ordered a CD of Earth, his 1973 masterpiece.

Hehe, that's funny, pixie twinkle, yesterday I was at a second-hand music shop and I bought "See You Later" on vinyl. The LP looks like new! I never used to like this album but last week I listened to the clips at Amazon and suddenly I was won over by its sound.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

All this chat has got me onto a Vangelis kick. I've just ordered a CD of Earth, his 1973 masterpiece. It used to be one of my my favourite albums back in the day. As I haven't had a record player in about 15 years it must have been at least that long since I last heard it. It'll be interesting to see if it really is as mind-blowingly good as I remember.

Where did you order that CD from?

I used "buy it now" on Ebay. It's a brand new factory sealed CD. I got lucky, it was only $14.99 plus shipping. I've seen these go for much more. I'm very excited to hear it again after all these years.

Alex, enjoy See You Later. Side 1 is quite a departure for Vangelis (although Memories of Green later appeared on the Bladerunner soundtrack). I wish I could find it on CD. I remember enjoying that album a lot too, though it took me by surprise the amount of vocals first time I played it. It was made right in the middle of the Jon and Vangelis phase, which probably explains it.

[stewdog1 50]

I used "buy it now" on Ebay. It's a brand new factory sealed CD. I got lucky, it was only $14.99 plus shipping. I've seen these go for much more. I'm very excited to hear it again after all these years.

Wow, you did get lucky.