Ridiculous commentary

[TownerFan 4,983]

I've found this hilarious commentary about this year's Oscar nominees in the Original Score category (especially concerning Williams' nominations) on The Film Experience. Here's an excerpt:

The easiest way for me to understand my complete and utter confusion each year regarding this category is to look at how I feel about John Williams (talented but sometimes lazy self-repeating composer who has deserved an Oscar or two during his long respectable career) versus the way THEY feel about John Williams --let me try to sum up how they feel about him ---this is me channeling an Oscar voter:

"He is, put simply, the greatest composer who ever walked the earth. If they resurrected Tchaivosky, Beethoven, Chopin, Bach, Wagner, Haydn, Shostakovich, and every other musical genius who ever lived and they all started scoring motion pictures --hell even if god himself starting conducting orchestras--None of them would EVER hold a candle to my hero, idol, GOD...Sir Magnificence John Williams!!!

P.S. Johnny call me! I ♥ you! "

Blech. This man has a ridiculous amout of nominations. It's almost pathetic really. Because however you slice it, in any realm of achievement -sports, music, film, the arts, accounting (!), ANYTHING. It is an impossibility to always be the single best in your field every single year of your existence.

You know what I really find ridiculous? It's not just the way he trashes Williams... but it's the fact that there are a huge amount of so-called "Award specialists/commentators" on the web that take themeselves too much seriously and really don't know a jack about movies or film crafts... what's important to their views is just the anal-retentive analysis of Oscar statistics and to fill out their boring and endless predictions. Come on! How many Oscar-themed websites and blogs do we need?!?

I understand the Oscars are part of Hollywood's film mythology and that they are important to someone, but it's really sad to note how many people waste time commenting and talking about these unimportant things, instead of discussing the real sense of the art and craft of film.

[Ollie 1,059]

Are you sure he didn't mean James Horner?

As far as I'm concerned film music overall has been in a decline the last 10 years and Williams has remained at the top. So yes it is possible to be the best for a long time.

Of course that means he should win every year but the writer fails to mention that he hasn't won since 1993.

[batmanand 0]

Also, it says "It is an impossibility to always be the single best in your field every single year of your existence". If Williams had won 45 Oscars, perhaps then this complain may be warranted. But he has not. He has won 5. He has been the best in his field for 5 years of his existence, according to the Academy. He has been in the top 5 most years. That does not seem unreasonable.

This guy is basically a jackass.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Jackass indeed.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

lets not be so hard on the guy, he responded to my email rather quickly.

Here is what I sent him.

Sir.

After reading your commentary on John Williams, I find your sarcastic remarks less than funny.  You are correct in that it is impossible to be the best all the time. John would even admit that himself, and remember yes he's been nominated a lot, more than most, but he's also lost allot, more than most.  However, if you look at some of his loses, they are much funnier than your commentary.  Superman loses to Midnight Express, Empire Strikes Back loses to Fame, and the Raiders loses to Chariots of Fire.

Please, those were asinine.  Even today, this foolishness still exists.  Angela's Ashes, which is a nice JW score, was nominated, but not the brilliant The Phantom Menace (the only brilliant aspect of that film).  Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, and Prisoner of Azkaban losing to Lord of the Rings, and Finding Neverland respectively is utterly foolish.  To his credit John Williams has 45 nominations, and before its all said and done he's likely to have more.  There is a remote possibility that he will pass

the beloved Walt Disney in total nominations.  While John is a great film composer, I don't think you're quips about his being better than many of the great classical composers is even a fair comparison, they are two unique forms of music, similar, but dissimilar all the same.  Thanks for letting me reply

.

Here is what he sent me. I understand better where he is coming from.

Joe

I know a lot of people love him so it's an unpopular opinion. But I'd

feel the same way even if one of my favorites was nominated every

single year. It just proves it's more about popularity than anything

else. because nobody is one (or two! this isn't his first double dip)

of the five best every single year when there are 100s of other

talents in their same craft.

but i've never argued that he shouldn't have won his Oscars. Only that

they nominate him too much.

thanks for reading and your thoughtful response.

[robthehand 3]

Well I guess he has a point there, but it sounds like he's against the Oscars alltogether (not that that's a bad thing, mind).

[King Mark 3,625]

It's good that you replied to him Joe.I was going to suggest that someone should.

K.M.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I can settle for that (I'll agree to disagree, I think JW getting nominated is pretty justified). In his original comment, he made it sound like the Academy loved Williams and always let him win. As Joe pointed out, JW has some of the most insane losses on his name.

[Ollie 1,059]

I agree.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

"He is, put simply, the greatest composer who ever walked the earth. If they resurrected Tchaivosky, Beethoven, Chopin, Bach, Wagner, Haydn, Shostakovich, and every other musical genius who ever lived and they all started scoring motion pictures --hell even if [G]od himself starting conducting orchestras--None of them would EVER hold a candle to my hero, idol, GOD...Sir Magnificence John Williams!!!

QFT

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Joe

I know a lot of people love him so it's an unpopular opinion. But I'd

feel the same way even if one of my favorites was nominated every

single year. It just proves it's more about popularity than anything

else. because nobody is one (or two! this isn't his first double dip)

of the five best every single year when there are 100s of other

talents in their same craft.

but i've never argued that he shouldn't have won his Oscars. Only that

they nominate him too much.

thanks for reading and your thoughtful response.

But has there ever been a year when an un-nominated score was more deserving of nomination that the Williams effort? Well has there?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Yes, substitute TPM over Angela's Ashes.

other noticable non-nominations that deserved one, not at William expense mind you, but still worthy,

Horner's Wrath of Khan, and Goldsmith's The Mummy

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Agreed on all counts! Wow Joe this is getting to be a habit! The Mummy is a phenomenal score. Very much in the spirit of "high adventure" like Hermann's scores for the 50s/60s fantasy films of Ray Harryhausen. As for Wrath of Khan, Horner's Trek theme is gorgeous, and easily the equal of Goldsmith's more familiar theme.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Did we all hear the same Mummy?

There's far better Goldsmith scores that I wish were nominated...

13th Warrior out of that same Mummy year, for instance....

No track in The Mummy holds a candle to 'The Fire Dragon"

[Morlock 11]

I think 13th Warrior is overrated. Nothing special about it. The theme is nice, but the whole score has a distinct feeling of more of the same (though not without it's highlights, like the aforementioned 'Fire Dragon'). The Mummy also feels like a lot of more of the same, but does it with more spirit and more fun (no doubt due to the nature of the two films).

The Mummy goes back to some of Jerry's 70's writing, like QB VII and Wind and The Lion. An undemanding, very satisfying listen.

Yes, substitute TPM over Angela's Ashes.  

I would substitue TPM over AA, but those are the two best scores of the year, so why one for the other? I wouldn't miss American Beauty (score) too much, and I certainly wouldn't miss Cider House Rules (movie and score), though both do have very good themes.

EDIT: Because of this thread I picked up and skimmed through my Arabian Goldsmith music. I had forgotten a lot of it. The Wind and The Lion I always thought was overrated. The theme is brilliant, and gets a few great variations, but overall? I don't think this album is nearly as good as it's worked out to be. It gets rather tired afte a while, yet anotehr variation on the theme, and nothing else really worthwhile there. I don't think the love theme is particulaly great, though it does get a couple of great variations.

QB VII has a couple of Arabian sounding cues, 'Journey in The Desert' is a clear precurser to the work in The Mummy and 13th Warrior. I can't get enough of Jerry's swirling strings for his Arab music. Fantastic. 'The Escape' is also a fantastic cue (the rest of the album is great too, but it's not Arabian. Some of Jerry's best choral work. I think the score is most in need of an expansion out of all Jerry's albums).

13th Warrior is good, but I don't find enough in it to keep me interested throughout.

Listening again to The Mummy, however, I feel short changes it earlier. It is one magnificent score, I can't think of a more fun Goldsmith action score (although there are rathe too many to keep in mind at the same time....).

[David Coscina 3]

Joe, good post and very incisive points directed at that Oscar commentator. I still don't think this guy gets it. Williams' musicality is seriously untouched at the moment by any other living film composer. I'm not talking about how music is married to film, just the pure construction of it. I don't know of anyone at the moment who has the same chops. So the guy's assertion that Williams' nominations is a result of popularity is not a valid justification. And I don't think this individual knows too much about music to make such flippant comments.

[orrakul 0]

I agree with Fiery Angel's last post; the "critic" starts from the wrong premise - and I'm not just saying this because I'm a JW fan. It is indeed possibled to be that good year after year - it is actually the members of the Academy's music branch that nominated JW - these are his peers and his competitors. Popularity might last for a couple of years - but after that, the only explanation is JW's sheer talent and mastery of film composing.

In the end, the "critic's" medicority will forever prevent him from truly appreciating genius; he seems to be offended by the suggestion that anyone could be that good!

What an ass! An informed, reasoned an intelligent criticism of JW may not be popular, but it might merit consideration. He's just ranting like an idiot (as I am, I suppose...).

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Nonsense orrakul, you are ranting like a Williams fan. We are not idiots, we are highly cultivated cerebral beings who exist on a plain higher than most mortals. Your rant was well-considered, sophisticated, and quite correct. Well spoken, Sir (or Madam as the case may be).

[Quintus 5,399]

"He is, put simply, the greatest composer who ever walked the earth. If they resurrected Tchaivosky, Beethoven, Chopin, Bach, Wagner, Haydn, Shostakovich, and every other musical genius who ever lived and they all started scoring motion pictures --hell even if god himself starting conducting orchestras--None of them would EVER hold a candle to my hero, idol, GOD...Sir Magnificence John Williams!!!

I say this exact speech to someone at least once a day.

[Ollie 1,059]

Did we all hear the same Mummy?  

There's far better Goldsmith scores that I wish were nominated...

13th Warrior out of that same Mummy year, for instance....

No track in The Mummy holds a candle to 'The Fire Dragon"

The 13th Warrior was written as replacement score after the Mummy and could be considered a companion to it.

"The Fire Dragon" is ok but there are plenty of cues in The Mummy that run circles around it. There's really not much "bite" in the 13th Warrior until the last 2 cues.

[David Coscina 3]

Goldsmith scores that should have won Oscar-

Planet of the Apes

Patton

Papillon

Star Trek: The Motion Picture

The Edge (or LA Confidential)

Mulan (definitely!!!!)

[Jim Ware 526]

The 13th Warrior was written as replacement score after the Mummy and could be considered a companion to it.

Although released after The Mummy, The 13th Warrior was recorded first.

[Ollie 1,059]

My mistake.

Still The Mummy is a much more interesting score compared to The 13th Warrior.

[pi 0]

It would be interesting to have music industry (film/tv scoring) vote for best score, where ignorance would play no part and where compatability and musicallity would alone decide the winner.

[King Mark 3,625]

I listened to the 13th Warrior for the first time this week...i thought it sounded familiar,the "desert theme",or whatever it is,is very similar to The Mummy.I also agree about the cue Journey into the Desert in QB IIV,there's this amazing gorgeous melody near the end of the cue.

K.M.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

just as a side note Nathanial emailed me today asking if he could quote me, which is more than I did to him I suppose.

Personally I think he is very nice, and considerate, he's not really attacking John as much as he's attacking the system.

[Morlock 11]

Goldsmith scores that should have won Oscar-  

Planet of the Apes

Patton

Papillon

Star Trek: The Motion Picture

The Edge (or LA Confidential)

Mulan (definitely!!!!)

For my money, he should have won for:

The Sand Pebbles

Planet of The Apes

Patton

Papillon

Star Trek: TMP

UNDER FIRE (My favorite score on the list, possibly my favorite Goldsmith score.)

Basic Instinct

Mulan (Though he'd have to share it with the writers of those terrible, terrible songs, which almost makes me want Randy Newman to have won)

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

The 13th Warrior was written as replacement score after the Mummy and could be considered a companion to it.

Although released after The Mummy, The 13th Warrior was recorded first.

Im pleased to hear that. I thought i was the one with things screwed