Jump to content

CoS, what did JW do?


Recommended Posts

I have to admit I've never owned (or heard the score on its own in its entirety) the CoS album mainly because I'm not sure how much rehashed stuff is in it. My question is, what did JW do and what did he not do? I'm of the impression he wrote everything will William Ross finetuned it to the movie. Am I right?

I may pick up one copy soon. Would you recommend picking this up over say, AI or Sleepers? Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

What's on cd it's all pretty much new material (there new versions of previous tracks here and there). What's on the film, however, it's whole different story. It's a score that is much better as presented on the album than in the movie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Williams just conducted the score, which was composed entirely by William Ross (with help from ghostwriter Don Davis).

Ray Barnsbury :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Williams just conducted the score, which was composed entirely by William Ross (with help from ghostwriter Don Davis).

Ray Barnsbury :(

:P

Then why does it say "Music Composed by John Williams Music adapted and conducted by Williams Ross" from the album?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Williams just conducted the score, which was composed entirely by William Ross (with help from ghostwriter Don Davis).

Ray Barnsbury :(

:P

Then why does it say "Music Composed by John Williams Music adapted and conducted by Williams Ross" from the album?

You tend have trouble recognising the sarcasm of a smart arse, don't you? ROTFLMAO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes its been determined that Williams wrote all the new music, and that Ross adapted a few pieces.

while its not entirely known what happened, its fairly obvious that Williams did not care for what Ross had done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love this score. And it's obvious to me that 95% of what is on the soundtrack album is composed by Williams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still not convinced that this is the case.

Ross probably wrote a lot more then he is generally given credit for.

It might explain why this score is so very dull.

Yes, if there's one thing that Williams hasn't written in the last few years it's dull scores.

Justin :roll:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wael said Ross original music was rejected, then Williams was going to make just the new themes. In the end, Williams had to write all new music, and i suppose Ross arranged existent cues to fit new scenes.

So its all Williams' music, even more than Superman II

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, this discussion crops up every few months here just like clockwork!!! Not that I mind. :mrgreen:

For pete's sake, get CoS!!!! The pieces are really, really great, and yes, JW wrote them all, and WR conducted them all. And oh yeah, the indomitable LSO performed them all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey i have to ask. sure, normal prices for CDs here are about 10USD, but I can do a LOT with 10 USD in these parts of the world. :mrgreen:

Man, that's cheap! Normal prices for new CDs here in Vienna (Austria) is about 15 Euro -- which is about 18USD. Where do you live anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Malaysia. Sadly, relative to earning power, 10USD is a lot of money for a student. Heck, to give u an idea of living expenses here, when in highschool (only one year ago), i could get by on a 18USD monthly allowance which buys me a half decent lunch at the school canteen for the month, one or two magazines (foreign licensed but published locally so its pretty cheap) and one or two trips to the cinema). :mrgreen: I need to migrate and earn Euros...:P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

all you have to do is look at the sheet music to know that the music is 100% Williams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love this score. And it's obvious to me that 95% of what is on the soundtrack album is composed by Williams.

Yeah I agree,

I think Ross just re worked some old cues and that's it.

The spiders is complex as hell and the flying car is just classic williams.

Probably the only score I heard the classic Williams orchestration coming back for good (and then going again on PoA)

Love that score.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

btw, get Sleepers first only because its so hard to find, not a better score.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey i have to ask. sure, normal prices for CDs here are about 10USD, but I can do a LOT with 10 USD in these parts of the world. :mrgreen:

Man, that's cheap! Normal prices for new CDs here in Vienna (Austria) is about 15 Euro -- which is about 18USD. Where do you live anyway?

I think these days we pay around 20 Euros for newly released CDs here.

And they wonder why filesharing is so popular.

Idiots!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought South Park Bigger Longer & Uncut for 6.99 yesterday, whats that in Uros.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey i have to ask. sure, normal prices for CDs here are about 10USD, but I can do a LOT with 10 USD in these parts of the world. ROTFLMAO

Man, that's cheap! Normal prices for new CDs here in Vienna (Austria) is about 15 Euro -- which is about 18USD. Where do you live anyway?

I think these days we pay around 20 Euros for newly released CDs here.

at least its 20 dollars to you. i mean, to put it another way, a can of Coke costs about 2 Euro there and while it costs 2 malaysian dollars here. ur CDs cost you 20 Euro but it costs me 40 to 50 malaysian dollars. ROTFLMAO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was originally reported that Williams would write around 50 mins of original material and William Ross would adapt JW's music from the first film to fill out the score.

We've had many reports from different sources including Ross himself that Williams provided more music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

I love this post. It really shows how much reality can become distorted when reading or hearing various sources.

John Williams wrote about 20 minutes of music for Chamber of Secrets. William Ross adapted, arranged, re-orchestrated, and wrote about 80 minutes of "Harry Potter Music" for the movie. Whatever you heard or read somewhere else is false. End of the story.

John and Bill worked very closely on CoS. Bill traveled many times to London (where John Williams was at the time) to discuss the score, the new themes, and the major musical orientations. Bill had full access to John's extensive score library, be it the Harry Potter original manuscripts and scores or any of his other scores for that matter (including Superman).

Bill is a *huge* John Williams fan and during the *whole* scoring process, his goal was to mimic John's music so well that you couldn't tell the difference. Bill is also an amazing orchestrator and worked extensively with Conrad Pope to make sure the whole score would have the exact same John William's sound than the previous score.

John Williams was delighted with William Ross' score. The *fact* is, John Williams said himself to Wiliam Ross at the end of the premiere that he couldn't tell when it was his writing or Bill's.

Those who claim that they can hear a difference between John's and Bill's writing are imagining things. Or they have better ears than John Williams himself. You choose.

The fact is, you should listen to Chamber of Secrets without asking yourself questions about who *really* wrote this or that cue. Because it doesn't matter. Chamber of Secrets is pure John Williams music, and it's good.

William Ross could have said, like Mr. Doyle, "fuck it" to the whole Harry Potter musical world. Instead, he decided to be as faithful as he could to the universe created by John Williams.

We should all give him credit to for that.

Hellgi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love this post. It really shows how much reality can become distorted when reading or hearing various sources.  

Hellgi

Again, how do you know this?

What are your sources?

As for Ross writing 80 minutes of music, if that is so, why is so much music from Philosophers Stone re-used.

This sounds like a John Williams quicky to me, like Home Alone 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And yet CoS has the Sorcerer's Stone motif all over the place as a motif for Voldemort, a segment of music found exclusively in the chess scene in SS playing when harry is in the chamber, and music for flying keys playing over a scene with Cornish Pixies. There's even some borrowing from AotC.

Staying true to a style is one thing, simply recycling old material is something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yes, and Star Wars Episode 2 has the Imperial March even though we don't hear it before Empire Strikes Back. Stupid, stupid John Williams! I hate him! He's such a bad composer!

Did it ever occur to you that there's more to the film music craft than just actually writing notes?

Hellgi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yes, and Star Wars Episode 2 has the Imperial March even though we don't hear it before Empire Strikes Back. Stupid, stupid John Williams! I hate him! He's such a bad composer!

If you know so much about Williams then why don't you know that that's not how Williams innitially scored that films final scenes.

It should be:

Stupid, stupid George Lucas! I hate him! He's such a bad director!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny you mention that, Hellgi, as we had long discussions about the Imperial March being in AotC about four years ago (as you can read here).

It is of course possible Columbus requested this material be recycled, but personally, I think that's one of the weaker things in the CoS score. In fact, it's what sinks it. It has great new material, but everytime the score starts recycling old material (and I don't mean just a theme reappering, but entire chunks of music copied and pasted) it pulls me out.

Whether it's Williams or Ross who is behind the copying is irrelevant to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, let me be clearer.

You happen to know that before a movie get scored it has a temp track. You also surely know that when a director gets too used to his temp track, he doesn't want to go another way.

Now, ask yourself the question: If George Lucas had the power to tell John Williams that he wanted the Imperial March in Episode 2, even though Williams didn't agree with it, then why wouldn't Chris Columbus have the power to tell William Ross where he wants the Harry Potter theme or the Sorcerer's Stone theme - and have it his way in the end?

There was a temp track on CoS. Am I making any sense here or what?

Hellgi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is another possibility. But it seems to be slightly different version of accounts than the one you gave above.

Although a combination of these two could be possible.

I'd like to read that 2002 article as well, btw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well that certainly makes sense.

And there is a precedent. Williams pretty much redid his own Home Alone score for the sequel, both were Columbus films.

It might also explain why I simply cannot get into this score.

I'm not saying I believe you, but your comments make a certain amount of sense. :)

However we had another source here a few years ago, also fairly close to Williams saying the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

You gotta love the Internet......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you, Mr. Breathmask. The fact htat it's Williams or Ross who is behind the score is irrelevant.

All I'm asking here is exactly that: to stop making it an issue. It's a non-issue.

If you love the score, thank both William Ross and John Williams. If you don't, then don't try to point the finger of who is responsible, because nobody knows and it doesn't really matter anyway.

All I care personnaly is that the facts about the making of this soundtrack get known. We're not talking about a "Batman Begins" type of collaboration, where each composer get distinct cues and you can clearly recognize both composers' styles. If you know William Ross' music a bit, you know that his music doesn't sound like CoS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And yet we got other "inside info" before telling us that John Williams ended up writing the entire score.Willaims also said he wrote 40 minutes initially,not 20.And the c.d. is credited to be "all tracks composed" by JW,which is more than 60 minutes.20 minutes is not enough for the new themes.Unless it's William Ross that actually composed such cues as Fawkes the Phoenix or The Chamber of Secrets concert versions.That would be as unbelievable as telling me he composed action music like The Flying Car or Duelling the Basilisk

K.M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

William Ross could have said, like Mr. Doyle, "fuck it" to the whole Harry Potter musical world. Instead, he decided to be as faithful as he could to the universe created by John Williams.

I let this one slide earlier, but I respect Doyle for putting his oen stamp into the franchise.

Unlike Ross, he's a established enough composer not to have to suffer the humiliation of doing a Williams imitation.

We should all give him credit to for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a point of view one can respect. I personnaly don't agree, but everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion :)

King Mark, in case you don't know it, there's a difference between how you get credited and the actual work you do.

There's also a difference between how much new music you write initially, before even seing the final cut, and how much music will end up being used in the final score.

Hellgi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I could have sworn Williams mentioned in an interview that he would be writing about 40 mins of new music and that Ross would be adapting the rest from the first Harry Potter film to fit the film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's just put it this way.

When you want to maintain the John Williams sound, you hire a competent arranger and orchestrator that adopt the Williams style to some degree and not taint it with any personal signature sound the replacement composer might have.

You don't hire Patrick Doyle to do a Williams imitation, you hire him because you think he's a talented composer in his own right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which is what Patrick Doyle is.

It's kinda obvious the director and producers of GOF didn't object that Doyle put his own stamp on the film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personnaly prefer the first option, especially after hearing what Patrick Doyle did to the Harry Potter musical universe.

Not that I think he his a bad composer (I do own more than one of his soundtracks), but I think there's a difference between bringing your own musical touch and doing something with an entirely different sound.

Now, again, that is a decision a director could totally make, so it might not be Doyle's fault.

Hellgi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doyle pulling a Williams would probably have sounded like Jurassic Park 3, some kind of weird hybird that kinda fails on both fronts.

Williams chose to walk away from Harry Potter, so I can't fault the film makers for wanting a different style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unlike Ross, he's a established enough composer not to have to suffer the humiliation of doing a Williams imitation.

.

Man, John Williams' contacts me because he's in panic working on another movie with a crazy schedule and wants *me* to help *him* out? I don't call that a humiliation, I call that an honor.

This is exactly how William Ross saw it.

We might have different standards here, but I thought this was a John William's Fans board?

Hellgi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We might have different standards here, but I thought this was a John William's Fans board?

Hellgi

I was employing an ironic hyperbole to bring home a point. :)

This is a John Williams Fan Board, actually this is the John Williams Fan Board.

But we don't shy away from critisism here.

At least I don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.