FILM: The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King (EE)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King

Much had been said on the MB about how ROTK if the film were PJ has been allowed to give in to his excesses, and this is certainly true.

Deep down, he is still a schlock Z-grade horror film director with the subtlety of a brick who doesn't always trust his audience to get the point.

What is also noticeable is the relative drop in quality when it comes to the effects and color grading.

This film is filled with CGI, moreso the the previous 2 combined, and while for the most part it is outstanding, there is some very obvious issues regarding composition.

There are simply too many shots were you can see characters inhabiting a CGI environment.

In TTT live action and CGI was often blended seamlessly (The Helms Deep battle still looks amazing). In this film only very rarely do the effects and live action come together.

Part of this must be due to the colour grading. The Minas Tirith section of the film simply looks...off. Mount Doom exerts a dark fume covering the region, yet most scenes seem to be in bright, glaring daylight. It often looks too much like dodgy day-for-night photography.

Many parts of the film look somehow artificial.

Yet somehow....none of this really matters.

Because this is a rousing, epic yet intimate film. Stupendous in scope and execution, yet ending with a tended scene of a daughter hugging daddy.

Elijah Wood has always been miscast as Frodo (in the book he is a middle ages Hobbit for most of it) but he does bring a quality to the role. He simply is Frodo.

Sean Astin started off as a nosy gardener in the first film and truly comes into his own here. During the trilogy (and the book) focus subtly shifts from Frodo to Sam. Since after taken by the Ring, we can no longer associate ourselves with Frodo. Samwise becomes the heart and strength of this film

The film starts with Andy Serkis, and its amazing how much he looks like his CGI counterpart. In the opening scene he gives his all, and continues to be an impressive Gollum. The secret of the succes of his character is not the quality of the CGI, but that you actually buy him as a living creature, who hopes, bides his time, thinks. Throughout much of the film we pity and loath him.

Ian McKellen bring forth authority as Gandalf The white, convincing as a military leader, but still a kind and gentle soul.

The rest of the cast is uniformly good, with Bernard Hill standing out as Theoden King, going to a battle with no hope, and a gnawing doubt about his own ability.

John Noble as Denethor is nearly as good, but let down by script issues.

This movie is in many way an emotional cry fest. If you weep during films (i do) then you won't be able to keep your eyes dry during many scenes.

This is ultimately why this film works, and why we can easily forgive it's many flaws and indulgences. If you are looking for tight, intellectual film making (ala Alexcremers) then this film is not for you. If you want to feel glorious and brilliant and engrossed into a great spectacle, and moved to tears by a final hug between two best friends, then this is your movie.

Flaws? Yes too many to count. Like the other the film is both very faithful and unfaithful to the spirit of Tolkien. PJ has the strange ability to in one scene capture the essence of LOTR on film (Sam carrying Frodo, Pipping singing while Denethor eats) and in other scenes go completely the opposite way (Gandalf hitting Denethor, Arwen and Aragorn kissing) In a scene were Legolas bring down an Oliphaunt PJ seems to be channelling George Lucas rather then Tolkien.

This film concludes the Aragorn/Arwen storyline, but it never really works. It's fine in FOTR, still works in TTT, but goes no were here. (it feels like much of the scenes with Arwen were cut together from abandoned story lines, there is an un-explained costume change in the film)

For Tolkien purists (which I am certainly not) this can bee deeply frustrating.

Yet PJ's excesses is certainly what gives this film, and the others much of it's charm.

Peter Jackson reminds me of Russel T. Davies, the producer of the first 4 series (and a bunch of specials) of the revamped Doctor Who series. Both share of love of excessive, completely over the top action and effects, both combine incredible subtlety with incredible garishness. And both of them are forgiven because they ultimately know how to film the emotional centre of their stories and characters when they need too.

Howard Shore continues from his previous two scores. His themes and instrumentation for the dark forces is more low and guttural then ever. (amazing brass work in this score)

His theme for Gondor, hinted at in former films comes to full glory. After being mostly absent from TTT and the latter part of FOTR, the sounds of the Shire return as Frodo and Sam move ever further from home, and closer to certain doom.

The film concludes on a beautiful, sad but hopeful song by Annie Lennox.

Both a masterful score in it's own right and a fitting conclusion to the trilogy.

The same can be said for the film.

**** out of ****

[publicist 4,643]

I agree and although i wish some tight-lipped british producer type would keep PJ's indulgence level in check, he clearly has the heart in the right place. And i seriously hated some of TTT so i was relieved that ROTK did get the series back on track.

[Brónach 1,302]

What did you dislike in The Two Towers?

Over the years, what I love about these films has stayed, but I've become more aware of a lot of things I don't really like, which has diminished my enjoyment of them.

[publicist 4,643]

As Stefan said, upon closer scrutiny there's a damn lot that stinks in LOTR, but somehow, the sum often is greater than its parts in this case.

As for TTT, it may be in Tolkiens writing, but there is a terrible smell of what we germans call 'blood and soil' ideology, with all those rightful throne heirs, the rustic peasants looking up to their feudalistic saviours, it's all dead serious and bare-naked to a shocking degree...and then you have this bloody possessed king mumbling and old-adaging under Brad Dourif's spell and i thought 'damn, Jackson, no sledgehammer is large enough!'.

The film has its virtues (mainly when it stays away from knights and fair maidens) but it is a long and sometimes depressing haul.

[alicebrallice 134]

What did you dislike in The Two Towers?

it's your favorite of the three, right?

never heard anyone who thought that before. but now I've actually met a guy who has ttt as his favorite as well... and I should mention that he's spanish too. I'm beginning to suspect some connection.

[Brónach 1,302]

LOL! You seem to have a similar reaction to the one I've occasionaly had.

I started thinking, I this were real, and I was transported as a peasant there, would I still look at characters like Théoden as interesting characters or would I simply see the feudal lords they are?

This is probably why I always felt Aragorn was less interesting in the films as the story advanced.

Aragorns wanders in the wild -> "This guy is awesome!"

Aragorn becomes king of Gondor -> "NO!"

But nah, a revision of something honest like Ran and I'm good to go again.

What did you dislike in The Two Towers?

it's your favorite of the three, right?

never heard anyone who thought that before. but now I've actually met a guy who has ttt as his favorite as well... and I should mention that he's spanish too. I'm beginning to suspect some connection.

FOTR used to be my favourite, TTT now. It's the one I find more fun. I like its apocalyptic tone at times, better than a zombie movie. The settings are great. It's sort of like a historical film but not really. There's Treebeard too, Gollum, the Rohan guys... if only it had Gandalf the Grey!

[publicist 4,643]

I started thinking, I this were real, and I was transported as a peasant there, would I still look at characters like Théoden as interesting characters or would I simply see the feudal lords they are?

The thing is that movies in general do an awful lot to transport us to worlds we left behind for good (and for the better of millions of people) - only on the screen we seemingly cannot get enough of chosen ones, throne heirs, princesses, emperors, knieves etc. It begs the question if fantasy is really that stupid or the imaginative ones just don't catch up.

Interestingly, as abysmal as the STAR WARS prequels are, Lucas addressed this very question and i found it quite interesting - it makes the formal and directorial inadequacies all the more painful.

[Brónach 1,302]

Yeah.

I think this is one of the reasons I can't get into Dune. Even if I know that Herbert might actually even be critical of some of the stuff in it that makes me reject it. The amount of ideological misery in it is too much to handle.

Of course a writer or a filmmaker might recreate a world as full of crap as our world is, but sometimes it can work too well for its own good, causing genuine gut rejection instead of intelectual observation. Specially if I'm not sure about the creator's opinion on the matter.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For the big battle stuff, TTT works better then ROTK.

The special effects seem more realistic somehow. (advantage of it taking mostly place at night I guess)

And there seems to be more at stake. (the build up to the battle, women and young children brought to safety. Old men and boys preparing to do battle)

Also no fighting trolls....

[KK 3,307]

Many just points made, and yet RotK remains my favourite of the 3. Perhaps because its just sensational to let yourself go to the spectacle. It's a powerful emotional journey that makes you root for your heroes and cry tears of joy when we've come to the end. And I think the Siege of Gondor is handled brilliantly (despite its excess), especially with the Rohirrim attack. While on a technical level, the TTT battle scenes work better, on an emotional level, you're far more engaged in the grandeur of the RotK battle pieces (or maybe it's just me).

I have my quips with RotK (Gandalf's staff getting broken, Sam being banished, etc.), but as many have said, the sum of the whole far outweigh the cons. It's just truly great film-making. And epics of this size, stunning on a technical level and yet still so true at heart are just not made anymore. And that's why, this along with the other films remains to be my favourites.

Shore's score is also my favourite of the trilogy. All the themes are handled so brilliantly, and this is the score where he brings all together in ingenious ways.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Unlike you I'm more engaged by the Helms Deep battle. Which, while stupendous in its own right, seems almost plausible and realistic compared to the Minas Tirith siege.

In the and of the day you are watching green ghosts envelop a larger then life elephant.

[KK 3,307]

I prefer everything that comes before the "green ghosts save the day!" part to Helm's Deep. Maybe its just the fanboy in me squealing at all the spectacle. But ultimately, I love both battles greatly.

[Brónach 1,302]

They should have used the ghosts to scare the pirates and clear way for the troops from the South of Gondor.

[KK 3,307]

I know, and it would have made more logical sense if they followed the way of the book. It would have been cooler to see Aragorn gather the Dunedain. Makes the ghosts seem less like a convenient plot device.

[Brónach 1,302]

Aragorn should have been followed by some others and calles the attention of the ghosts, who slowly start following his small army. It would be creepy and cool.

I also missed the Drúedain.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

My fav part of that battle may be the aftermath, in the EE that is. Somerset scream as he finds his sister is blood curling.

And of course the Rohirrim entering the battle and Theodens call for Death!

[KK 3,307]

Gandalf leading charge of the siege was great. The Mumakil bits were also really awesome. Watching the levels of Minas Tirith slowly fall was great. Thought the fall of Denethor was great. In fact, before the ghosts arrive, it's all awesome. And after it doesn't falter too much, like Eowyn's showdown with the Witch King. But I agree, the Rohirrim charge and Theoden's speech are my favourite moments.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I think RotK would not have gained the amount of praise and acclaim that it got, had the previous two films not done such an absolutely amazing job of setting it up. Because there are plenty of flaws in RotK.

[Quintus 5,399]

Same goes for the others. Even with its little issues, ROTK is still a fucking incredible movie.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Same goes for the others. Even with its little issues, ROTK is still a fucking incredible movie.

Of course RotK relies on its predecessors. The film is built on the emotions that have been accumulated since the film. One of the things that makes it such a brilliant film.

All 3 had flaws, but the pros really outweigh the cons.

Oh, god, the day I watch The Return Of The King for the first time... It's a fucking religious experience! I don't think I'll feel that ever again. It was awegasmic.

It's a bloody brilliant film, despite its flaws.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

It's awegasmic.

[Jay 37,352]

I agree with Stefan, something is up with the Arwen subplot of the films, I noticed it when watching the trilogy on the big screen last weekend. It does seem to be that an important part of it was deleted. The scenes with her in the beginning of ROTK seem to be a combination of two scenes (One of her deciding not to go to Valinor, one of her convincing Elrond to reforge Narsil), hastily recut together.

What's curious is I don't think there have been any special features that delve into what's missing (other than her fighting at Helm's Deep).

What's non-Tolkien about her kissing Aragorn?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

I wonder what possessed PJ to not restore it all for the ROTK EE?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

The RotK trailer with Shore's music is awesome.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

You can see some of the missing footage in the very first teaser trailer for the trilogy, as well as ROTK trailer and some stills here and there.

The only shot of Arwen I remember from the original teaser is her lying on the couch, and that ended up in ROTK. What am I missing?

Can you find any of those stills you mentioned now?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

Yes, I just watched those parts from the ROTK trailer too.

I wish PJ had included everything from the ROTK trailer in the EE of ROTK. There are other shots from the beginning of that trailer not in the final film too.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Oh, I forgot 0:57, which also features a shot of Arwen on the bridge.

[Jay 37,352]

The opening shot of the Nazgul dive-bombing into Minas Tirith isn't in the final cut either, I don't think.

And I was REALLY hoping the EE would restore the original configuration of the two scenes that Shore brought back Dangerous Passages for, but sadly we may never see that footage either.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The opening shot of the Nazgul dive-bombing into Minas Tirith isn't in the final cut either, I don't think.

Yes, yes it was. In both cuts. One of the most badass moments of the siege, by the way.

[Jay 37,352]

Ah OK, I guessed I remembered the final editing featuring a little different shot for some reason.

[KK 3,307]

The opening shot of the Nazgul dive-bombing into Minas Tirith isn't in the final cut either, I don't think.

Yes, yes it was. In both cuts. One of the most badass moments of the siege, by the way.

Indeed. And the way the choir bursts into The Power of Mordor just sends the chills down my spine. So awegasmic!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

The opening shot of the Nazgul dive-bombing into Minas Tirith isn't in the final cut either, I don't think.

Yes, yes it was. In both cuts. One of the most badass moments of the siege, by the way.

Indeed. And the way the choir bursts into The Power of Mordor just sends the chills down my spine. So awegasmic!

I love the way Shore isn't afraid to apply this kind of orchestral and choral violence into the mix since this is rather challenging music for most people. Unrelenting but very apt getting down to the core of the sheer terror of the Nazgûl. My cousin mentioned already while listening to FotR that he doesn't like the Ring Wraith material because it feels like the choir is just screeching and shouting at him. Got to his nerves.

[KK 3,307]

LOL

I find that amusing because I have a friend who used to sing in professional children's choir back in her younger days. She's a very talented singer and although she isn't very literate in concert music, she's quite fond of choral music. So I showed her snippets of LotR, and when she heard the Ringwraiths music, she didn't like it because she thought the choir was screaming too much.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What's non-Tolkien about her kissing Aragorn?

There is no kissing between male and female at all in LOTR.

[Jay 37,352]

That just means it happens off-page. Obviously humans conceive the same way we do in Middle Earth.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The point is that it is an obviously crowd pleasing moment that has nothing to do with Tolkien.

Audiences need the big sloppy kiss at the end.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

If they were going to include portray Arwen in the film, then the romance between Arwen and Aragorn would need to be explored. If not, it'd make her a useless character. And since they have a romance, then you'd expect to see a kiss. I mean how else do you expect to portray a romance in a film like this? Every sweeping epic has a romance of some sort.

Besides, its not like they showed a sex scene or anything. There's no need to freak out over it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Stefan, something is up with the Arwen subplot of the films, I noticed it when watching the trilogy on the big screen last weekend. It does seem to be that an important part of it was deleted. The scenes with her in the beginning of ROTK seem to be a combination of two scenes (One of her deciding not to go to Valinor, one of her convincing Elrond to reforge Narsil), hastily recut together.

If I remember correctly the EE versions of FOTR and TTT even disagree with each other at some point concerning the story of Arwen and Aragorn.

in the FOTR EE Aragorn tells Galadriel that Arwen will remain in Middle Earth. in TTT we see that he encourages her to leave, and actually tells Eowyn this.

In ROTK the biggest problem is that Arwen suddenly falls ill for some reason because of some unexplained influence of Sauron, and is in fact dying. It doesn't convince at all.

I guess the Arwen storyline was rewritten so often that they simply lost track of things. And they fixed up something last minute in the editing suite.

Besides, its not like they showed a sex scene or anything. There's no need to freak out over it.

I am not freaking out. I simply point out that it is not something that appears in Tolkien's writing at all. (repressed Catholic)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Besides, its not like they showed a sex scene or anything. There's no need to freak out over it.

I am not freaking out. I simply point out that it is not something that appears in Tolkien's writing at all. (repressed Catholic)

Well, Tolkien never gave much importance to the relationship between Arwen and Aragorn. All we know is that they end up together. But you'd expect that they'd have kissed. And the film chose to bring out the relationship, which is fine by me.

I agree with Stefan, something is up with the Arwen subplot of the films, I noticed it when watching the trilogy on the big screen last weekend. It does seem to be that an important part of it was deleted. The scenes with her in the beginning of ROTK seem to be a combination of two scenes (One of her deciding not to go to Valinor, one of her convincing Elrond to reforge Narsil), hastily recut together.

If I remember correctly the EE versions of FOTR and TTT even disagree with each other at some point concerning the story of Arwen and Aragorn.

in the FOTR EE Aragorn tells Galadriel that Arwen will remain in Middle Earth. in TTT we see that he encourages her to leave, and actually tells Eowyn this.

I think in FotR, Aragorn says she will not leave. He was just stating what her desire was. It could be inferred that Aragorn knew at the back of his mind that Elrond would have made Arwen leave in some way or the other, despite the fact that Arwen didn't want to leave.

In ROTK the biggest problem is that Arwen suddenly falls ill for some reason because of some unexplained influence of Sauron, and is in fact dying. It doesn't convince at all.

Well, there is the whole "I cannot save you now" scene with Elrond and Arwen on the bridge that got cut. There could be a whole side of this storyline we're missing. A side with Arwen giving up her immortality which was connected with the Evenstar which in turn had some connection to the fate of Middle-Earth. We're probably missing something...

[Quintus 5,399]

I think TTT, despite being the traditionally awkward middle section, is outstanding.

[Brónach 1,302]

The Arwen part was wonderfully done in TTT, it was so lyrical. Then in ROTK they screwed it up with the whole Arwen dying thing and with her scenes being more cliche and adding less (book falling of her hand etc.)