AzOutcast
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Posts posted by AzOutcast
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The fact that Williams didn't score Superman Returns didn't make it a poor movie.
The fact that it was a poor movie made it a poor movie.
I think everyone here pretty much nailed it already but let's go ahead and bring it down to the specifics. So Bryan Singer, you want to make a Superman movie? Okay, I can't wait to see the action! What's that? You don't want to have a lot of action? Alright Singer, that's ballsy, but you better make it emotionally engaging. What's that? Our two leads are about as engaging as a rock? Alright then. I dunno Singer, this sounds like . . . what's that? Oh, you've hired "top men" to find out the exact trajectory that a wing from an airplane would be ripped off, if ripped off by a man of Krypton? . . . I guess that's important . . .
We could go on and on. To be fair, there's actually more people I speak to in person that like it, than don't (or perhaps they're just in denial, and confide in online message boards?). I've enjoyed the bulk of Singer's films and I really do think he has what it takes to make a "Great" movie. There were a lot of things he got right with SR (not giving Supes any powers he doesn't have, for one). I also have no problem with a comic book film that tries to inject a little more depth than your average one. But I think Singer missed the memo that comic book films, especially Superman, are supposed to be fun.
And it wasn't.
With all that said, I'll be first in line if a second Supes movie is made with Singer, because he promised Wrath of Kahn and I think he'll deliver.
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That's the Nazi theme from Raiders.
. . . that makes sense.
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You're right of course. And back to Hook, just to clear up, I enjoyed that flick immensely in theaters. I hadn't really seen it too much after that though (no clue why) and I think Williams did a great job as Peter. I'm just merely curious as to how Kline would've done it (not that much different, I suppose).
There's one I'm missing in Raiders. You guys know a lot more than me, so I'm sure you have a name for it. That theme used when Indy is taking his horse down the hill and heading for the truck, they play that "Truck theme" as I always refer to it. It's used throughout the chase, but it's also used previously during the fight at the plane (if I remember correctly, when a truck filled to the brim with soldiers is approaching, and Marion takes 'em out). I LOVE THAT! That's probably my favorite at the moment.
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There's all sorts of those moments in Hook. Another one that comes to mind is in "From Mermaids to Lost Boys" when Peter sees a panoramic view of Neverland and the Memory theme plays. Right after this Peter falls down, and the french horn repeats the first two notes of the theme three times, representing Peter trying to latch on to the memory but can't.
Cool! I know the cue and I've seen the film so many times (I guess I'm one of the few around who doesn't mind it too much
) but I never made that connection...will definitely look out for that next time I see/listen to it. I also love how, in that score, the Childhood and Peter Pan themes are developed. They're always hinted at but never get full, robust treatments until Peter's finally become Peter Pan again and remembered what it means to be child in the last few minutes of "Remembering Childhood". In the "Never Feast" cue, the Peter Pan theme (I think that's what it's supposed to represent) is just hinted at when he holds the sword after having cut up the flying coconut. He's just barely grasped who he used to be at that point, and JW captures that brilliantly. ASW
I've actually just gotten into the Hook score more recently over the past couple of months. Aside from a great score (that goes without saying) I think it's amazing the potential that movie had. All the themes, the music, the director, the actors (although I would have liked to have seen Kevin Kline in the role), etc. But I watched the flick a few weeks ago and . . . it really wasn't all that good. It has a moment or two there, and again, potential that just skyrockets . . . but it's just kinda "meh."
As for a leitmotif . . . I dunno, I suppose any time a theme is brought up during an action sequence. There are really too many to list. Hearing the Nazi theme during Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra is one of the first I heard when I was really young and thought to myself, ". . . I like it."
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Well I was too lazy to read most of what everyone said here, but there doesn't seem to be much more news to report other than that this is officially Spielberg's next project. He'll direct the first mo-cap flick, and Jackson will follow up with the second (the third one . . . who knows).
Apparently Andy Serkis is gearing up as Captain Haddock and they should start filming pretty soon.
http://movies.ign.com/articles/859/859681p1.html
I've yet to see a Mo-Cap flick that convinced me it should have been shot that way. I didn't really care for Polar Express and as for Beowulf, I felt that the animated characters detached me from the movie, and got in the way of the acting. I mean, looking at the special features for Beowulf and watching them film it, I could understand 100% why a director would love to shoot this way. He can control everything, every little detail. But the end result, that which matters most, seems to suffer. Who knows, maybe this (or A Christmas Carol) may change my mind about it.
I can't say I'm particularly excited about a Tintin movie in the first place. I'm sure when I see some footage though, I'll change my mind. What's interesting to me is what's going to happen, score-wise. Obviously Williams is the one to go with for the first movie (although I'm forever in fear that Williams will announce his retirement and someone else will take his place), but what happens come the second movie? Will Jackson use Shore again, or go with Williams, or someone else given what happened with Kong? And if he uses someone else, I assume they'll use the themes Williams lays down in the first one?
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Pixar films are hit or miss with me. I enjoyed Toy Story (who didn't?) and was surprised by the action movie that was The Incredibles. I never saw Monster's Inc. or Cars and didn't care for Bug's Life, Finding Nemo or Ratatouille.
Wall-E is lookin' pretty good so far, although it looks like they're really trying to crank the Cuteness level up to 11. I mean, do you know any girls who don't think Wall-E is the cutest thing ever? I certainly expect to hear squealing girls next to me when viewing this in theaters.
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I suppose the Guillermo del Toro/John Williams match-up would be too good to be true anyway.
Especially lame is that they're splitting it into two parts.
Ah well. I didn't mind the directing or the score for Phoenix. Williams would have been best of course, but I'll take this over someone else.
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"Skywalker, what are you doing?!"
"Take out those bombers!"
"Rogue Squadron, where are you?! We need air cover now! Skywalker where are you?! YEARRRRGH!!!"
MISSION FAILED
I managed to get gold on all levels in both Rogue Squadron and Battle for naboo
Battle for Naboo wasn't great...it was just okay.
but I also got gold for all levels in Rogue Squadron except for that damned lava planet level, Raid on Sullest. Used a cheat for that one.
Yea thats a tough one. Interestingly, from Wiki,
"The team spent so long developing the game engine that the end game was relatively rushed, which caused spikes in the learning curve. This was a regret for Julian Eggebrecht of Factor 5, and he recounts that he can barely finish the Sullust level because of its difficulty."
I think the level I had the most trouble trying to get Gold on was the Death Star trench run
Btw anybody here played the Rogue Squadron sequels on the GameCube? They look mouthwateringly awesome
The first one for Gamecube, Rogue Leader, is an incredible game. I haven't played Rogue Squadron or BFN in quite some time, so I don't know how it would compare. It was one of the first games to come out for the cube, if not the first, and the graphics still look amazing (Factor 5 always knew how to make the most of the machine).
The next one in the series, Rebel Strike, was hit and miss. Aside from the great flying levels, they threw in some on-foot missions. It was good in theory, but the on-foot segments are absolutely terrible. Given that they take up about half the game and you're in for a disappointment. Still, Rebel Strike is worth owning just for the fact it has a co-op version of Rogue Leader on it.
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AzOutcast - I finally had a chance to give your final track for SOTE a listen.
I'm not a big fan of taking film music and putting in SOTE, but those edits in the beginning are really well executed. Where it gets really exciting is during the 'end credits' section.
The lead in to the end credit fanfare was VERY nice, and the transition to Xizor's theme was freakin' incredible. I may have to copy that transition for my own version. I like how you used that theme first. Leaving out the final fanfare at the end of the theme was a really brilliant move too. It was a pleasant transition. The final edit to the 'Alliance Fanfare / Finale" was very nicely done too.
I'm not sure if it was too short or not. It seemed to flow well. Thanks for sharing
Right on, glad you enjoyed it. I'm also further digesting your symphony for a saga. I don't know if you planned it this way, but all three suites JUST fit on a single CD, so I throw that on when I'm driving to and from work. I'll be writing something for it soon though.
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What's the deal with adding the belt and the breast pocket?
I don't mind changes, as long as it's done for a good reason. Guns into Walkie Talkies . . . lame. Erasing the reflection of the snake on the other hand, makes sense.
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Alright Gullwing, I finally got around to listening to your End Titles and for the most part I thought they were perfect. The transitions were well done (my favorite being from Seduction into Beggar's Canyon Chase . . . excellent job). It's not hard at all to imagine the never ending list of names heading towards the top of the screen with this suite. Good job.
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Shamalopahop (I've given up trying to remember how to spell his name) is a fantastic director. He injects a pace in his movies that I really dig. With that said, I hated how The Village turned out and skipped Lady in the Water. Someone on the first page mentioned a key element (blocked out) and I have to say, if that's the case (which it looks like it is) then I don't really see how the movie's going to be all that interesting. The trailer consisted of a everyone trying to bring the most obvious reasons why "it" was happening and I gotta say, if that's the big twist I'll be really disappointed.
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As far as Mr. Rudess is concerned, I love the continuum. When it comes to a film score, I am really intrigued (and nervous) to see how Mr. Williams will put it to use.
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I'm going with Elfman's. As someone stated earlier, he pulled off the MI theme the best. It's also a score I guess I never really considered him doing but it fits the film like a glove. I think it's great.
I don't really mind Zimmer's. Again, it fits that film too, albeit over the top and cheesy.
Giacchino's was okay. I'm in that group of people who doesn't think he's the second coming of Christ. There were a few moments here and there but overall, it's just kinda "there".
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In relative terms, Alien was pretty butchered. Williams' Star Wars was left pretty much alone (a few edits and one cue dropped), and then Goldsmith gets a big Fox sci-fi film and what happens? Then after that he does Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and scrapped early cues notwithstanding his score was left pretty much intact. So compared to those Alien does stick out as one that was heavily edited.
I agree with what you are saying. I still think "butchered" is the wrong word to be using though.
I would have to go out of my way and say Horner's score to Aliens was also butchered otherwise because that was also heavily cut and pasted into the final film.
Although less cues were dropped full stop. I personally would only ever use the term butchered in reference to a score being completely misused and badly edited together in such a way that the actual film itself is also heavily ruined because of its presence. This was never the case with Alien as a picture.
I agree.
The fact is, a film score HAS to be subservient to the movie as a whole. (Musicals are a possible exception.) Music is tremendously important, of course, and far too often is taken for granted; but it's no more important than set design or costumes or, of course, the actors. Decisions made in the editorial process can and often do impact all of those areas, as well; I'm sure there isn't a film actor on the planet who hasn't at some point winced and said, "God, why didn't they use take C instead of take G?!?" Intricate details placed into film costumes go unseen by the audience on a routine basis; same goes for sets. But a film doesn't exist to show off costumes; costumes exist to ehance the story being told and the mood being established by the film.
Music just happens to be an element of filmmaking that is relatively easy and inexpensive to isolate and, therefore, to market. In that sense, it's a bit more visible than other aspects of the filmmaking process, so of course, people who are fans of that single aspect begin to feel that it is more important than the larger framework from which it sprang.
A film's music is not, has never been, and will never be more important than the film (when speaking as a general rule). It may occasionally be a greater artistic success than the film itself is, sometimes to the extent that the music becomes more important than the movie; but that is somewhat rare, and even in those cases it happens only after the fact, NEVER before.
In the case of Alien, it appears that many of the instances of Goldsmith's music being tampered with were the result of changes to the editing of the film itself. These would all have been changes designed to help the film communicate one idea or another more effectively. Therefore, the film is probably stronger as a result; in any case, it was a hit, and has been a significant cultural force for 30 years now, and it's hard to argue with that. People can and do; but you can always find some a-hole to stand in the rain and claim he's dry.
Listening to the new Alien CDs is a pleasure in and of itself, but it's also reminded me how much I like James Horner's Aliens. It is a perfect reflection of the movie; it adopts (and adapts) Goldsmith's mood and textures to a more action-oriented and less horror-oriented setting, and in roughly the same degree as Cameron shifted Scott's designs from one emotional focus to another. All of which neatly fits in with Ripley's refocusing from prey to hunter. Boy, those are two great movies.
By the way, try saying "horror-oriented" out loud five times fast. If successful, pat self on back.
Well said. In the case of Alien, I love the film as is and there'd be very little I'd change about it. With that said, I've yet to really sit down with the score and give it an isolated listen, so perhaps I'll change my mind.
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Yessiree.
It's great, sometimes I wish he'd do that more often ... 
The two boards I tend to frequent most is this one and the Dream Theater forums. I'm surprised I didn't see your avatar earlier. Right on!
Back on topic, I can't think of any examples not mentioned already, but I really dig what Williams did in CE3K as well.
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I've finally had the chance to listen to this score today, and for some reason it's really aggravating. Someone mentioned earlier the "electronic meandering" and I guess that's what you'd call it. It was used sparingly in the Bourne scores (at least in comparison) but here it's on every track. There's barely a moment with pure orchestra going on and I find it frustrating. There are a few interesting themes and I honestly think this score would have sounded so much better without all the echo-y beats and whatnot going on.
But ya know, I didn't think the film was all that anyway, so perhaps neither did Powell.
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Overall, I just don't think 2007 was a very hot year for movies. As far as my tastes go, I suppose.
I finished Michael Clayton yesterday and was surprised at how mediocre it was. I mean, the story wasn't anything new. It just wasn't as engaging as I would've hoped. I didn't notice anything too spectacular about the score (although it seemed to pick up towards the end). I'm happy Swinton won the oscar for best supporting, I dig her, but there was nothing particularly special about her part (or any of the other nominated supporting actresses, for that matter).
I also watched American Graffiti, a flick I haven't seen since I was a kid. I really enjoyed it (except for Ronny Howard's character). In a way, I think it's too bad Lucas' career went the way it did. THX and Graffiti were both very well-made films and I would've liked to see what else he would've made, had Star Wars not happened. Ah well.
Earlier in the weekend, I saw Be Kind Rewind. It was pretty much exactly what I thought it'd be. The flick didn't try to be a laugh riot and they tried to throw some heart in there, but it didn't really work. Still, the remaking of movies such as Ghostbusters and Rush Hour 2 were pretty hilarious (which you can find online anyway). It was okay. Worth a viewing.
As far as 2007 goes, I still need to catch Before the Devil Knows Your Dead and There Will Be Blood. I suppose I have mild interest in Atonement, if only for the score (I've heard the first track and like it . . . but that's all I've listened to). Juno was okay but its weakest aspect was the writing (ironically enough). La Vie En Rose was pretty boring to me . . . I dunno, maybe it helps to have prior knowledge of the singer. I tried to watch Assassination of Jesse James but I just wasn't in the mood for such a deliberately paced flick I guess.
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I'm looking forward to the SW TV shows, just to give other people a chance to do something new with the license.
As far as taking the first three episodes of the animated TV show to theaters . . . bad move. Sure, the animation is impressive for a weekly TV show but for a theater feature? And what about the story? Unless it was a planned three-story arc, I don't think it will wrap up well enough to be fit for a movie. Aside from making tons of cash, it's essentially a giant commercial to get everyone watching this show. Lame move.
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Just to be clear, I was posting a reply from another message board . . . not my own..
I guess what I was getting at is that at least here when discussing film scores there seems to be a level of sophistication . . . that just fades away when you try discussing it elsewhere.
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Alright, so I don't chime in here all too often (obviously) but this remains a great place for information and just to read up on film scores and whatnot. I'm just curious as to how you often you all might discuss John Williams on other message boards, because whenever I run into a conversation leads to the most insane places. I give you an example:
He writes great music, there is no doubt of that. You simply cannot argue the fact that his themes are fantastic and catchy and epic. That being said, he doesn't understand fully the idea of film scoring. A director is a brain and he is trying to tell a story. The actors help tell the story, the dialouge helps tell the story, the camera angles, the lighting, the costumes, the make up, the special effects, the computer animation, the editing, and the music. A composer's job is, like that of the director of photography, or the make-up artist, or the editor, is to help tell the director's story. When there is a sad scene, the music should reflect that, but it is very delicate, becasue sometimes the actors are doing a very good job portraying the sad scene, and overly sad music will make it over dramatic. That is the problem with Williams. His music is too extreme, and he doesn't know when to be subtle. There are very few moments when I say "Wow! that was genius! that was just plain great storytelling on his part" (which I do frequently with other composers)
Now, yes. He steals a lot of ideas. Star Wars sounds just like The Planets. But is that so awful? I mean, when it comes down to it, you have to do what you have to do to create the best accompaniment for the film, and sometimes that means composing stuff that you wouldn't if you were just composing. Composing out of your style, or, more specifically, in the style of someone else. You can't argue that Holst's ideas were perfect for capturing out of this world, spacey, planety music, so if you are composing for a film about other planets, it's only natural to observe his ideas.
Well certainly I watch a film and notice how well the camera angles and editing affect the flow of the film, but I understand that this is not the norm for all people.
And my point was that his music doesn't help to blend into the whole. I was saying that, like you agree, film making is a collaborative effort, and I feel that often times, Williams steps on the toes of the other creative forces.
On the other hand, I agree that it is indisputable that the jaws theme is one of the most fitting themes ever written. His themes always are. Someone mentioned the Harry Potter Theme. That, also, is so perfect for the film (though it sounds just like Neptune). But it is the music past the themes that I'm concerned with. If you look at the scoring of guys like James Newton Howard or Howard Shore! Yeah, let's take these two and look at two of their scores.
The King Kong Score: This, much like Jaws, or Harry Potter, or Star Wars, or Super Man is a film about something extravagant and unreal. He used very humane, and simple themes for his main themes. The "Beauty" Theme that plays throughout is just so simple and touching and gives such a human side to this huge ape. Of course, the action scenes are the action scenes, but he brings it down when he needs to and lets the actors do their part. Also, if you remember, halfway through the T-rex fight, the music cuts out (when they're hanging from the vines) this is fantastic! The whole fight sequence is about 15 minutes in length. Could you image 15 minutes of none-stop Jurrasic Park attack music?! He helped the flow of the film by not doing anything! Also, in the inset pit. Really effing creepy bugs and garbage eating people. That sounds intense right! that sounds like loud, bombastic, and heavy! but no! He used a very quite choir chanting softly in the backround, and it made the scene 10 times scarier! The lack of volume and action in the music created such a stark contrast to the images, that it made the images on screen seem even creepier and made the audience very unsettled.
LoTR: These films are undoubtedly some of the most epic ever made, and the score undoubtedly one of the best ever written. Never did I feel overwhelmed by it, though. There is no cliché pretension in the action scenes, no powerful action theme blasting through with a gigantic orchestra. There is so much going on visually that little needs to be added by the music. Many times in the action scenes, the score cuts out completely. Another thing that makes this score so fantastic is how well he captured each different race, with different ideas, instrumentations, themes, etcetera. It aided the lush color of the film and its diversity. It made the world seem much more realistic. This 9+ hour piece of music is truly outstanding, and there is little reliance on fantastic themes and loud, over dramatic orchestration. It is subtle, and perfect for the film it goes with.
Williams does some outstanding work, and it is obvious to see why he is the highest paid composer of our time, but he is too often placed at the top of a pedestal on which he does not belong. Zimmer, Howard, and Shore all compose much better scores.
. . . I don't even know what to say. Of course, people are entitled to their own opinions even if they are very poor.
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Wow that trailer reeks of dog piss!
Nicholson was bad as the Joker but Ledger is really a joke, and I don't mean that as a pun.
I know it might seem like daring and inspirational casting, giving it to one of those gay cowboys, but all the subtlety and class of Cesar Romero's portrayal of the character has been flushed down the toilet.
Another movie ruined by that effing c-word Nolan!
. . . that's just ridiculous.
The trailer looks phenomenal, even in low quality. Ledger is a great actor and I'm happy that he wont disappoint here. As many have said, 2008 is shaping up to be a great year of cinema.
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Sound quality's the same and no, I'm NOT stupid enough to pay $90 for it.
But thanks for the vote of confidence guys.
*Apparently, I am stupid enough to forget to put the word "not" in the sentence. Sheesh . . .
Singer talks Superman: Man of Steel
in General Discussion
Posted
I have no idea what that meant . . . but it was hilarious.
I actually don't mind the score for SR. I mean, it was a damned if you do scenario to begin with. No matter what composer took that job, it probably wouldn't rank with Williams' masterpiece. In the end it ended up being a superior Ottman effort (at least compared to X-Men 2 and Fantastic Four . . . but let's face it, anything is better than the X-Men theme he concocted).