John Williams's strange chords

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm looking at cue a called 'The Inner Chamber.' There's a couple of interesting chords that I want to discuss.

 

 

After the opening bitonality (Eb7/E7), beautifully orchestrated for muted strings, piano, harp, two clarinets and gong swiped with chain, in mm. 3-4 (0:05) we have basses playing a pedal c in octaves, while above, violins, violas, celli, arpeggiated piano and vibes play Ab4-C5-G5-B5-Gb6-Bb6 - three sets of major thirds, all separated by major 7ths. This planes down to the same chord a tone lower. Is this an open cluster, or something more oblique? Nevertheless, a great, eerie sound - cut from the same cloth as 'The Emperor's Throne' from ROTJ.

 

At mm 19-22 (1:07) there's a stinger for (IIRC) a decomposed body jumping out and scaring Short Round. Another really nasty dissonance, this time for muted brass. Ab3-Bb3-E4 in the sord trombones, D4-E4-G4-A4 for horns with hard mutes, and later D5-A#5-C#6 (one of those recurring (014)s) in sord trumpets.

 

What's going on here?

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

mm. 3-4 seem like what we've been calling an open cluster, yeah. Can't think of any more wieldy way to classify it than that.

I tend to hear those sorts of passages as Debussy's "harmonized melodies" taken to the extreme. The top voice carries the only real weight, with the rest providing color rather than function.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I know, it's just a cool, unique thing. I wander what (if any) other composers have used such a technique (building an open cluster out of equal thirds).

[Ludwig 1,120]

I'm with Who in that open cluster is best, but if you wanted to nuance it, you could say it's an open cluster doubled in major 3rds. It's wordy but clear. Also probably the best way to conceptualize it. Even so, it's not far off from being stacked triads, so has a "poly" feel to it that suits the other dissonances in the cue.

As for the other location, that would be a "mixed polychord". Notice that each chord is quite a different set:

- Trombones --> French-6th-related chord

- Horns --> "Quartal" chord

- Trumpets --> (014)

All are very different in sound, so the result is a wonderfully pungent stinger. I get the feeling that in these early 80s scores, Williams is experimenting with modernist materials. Not that it's unsystematic, but it has a freedom about it, a lack of adherence to any one system (unlike the great 20th-century concert composers, who tended to be more systematic).

Maybe that's what gives these scores their very attractive, spontaneous, even "wild" sound.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

All are very different in sound, so the result is a wonderfully pungent stinger. I get the feeling that in these early 80s scores, Williams is experimenting with modernist materials. Not that it's unsystematic, but it has a freedom about it, a lack of adherence to any one system (unlike the great 20th-century concert composers, who tended to be more systematic).

Maybe that's what gives these scores their very attractive, spontaneous, even "wild" sound.

I'm just wandering, is there an academic paper out there on polychords/polytonality (that doesn't limit itself to juxtaposed tertian structures) like that Auvil essay you sent me? Something that catalogues them from the late 19th century to the mid 20th. The Persichetti is great, but I'd to see some of the obscurer composers mentioned.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You're talking about Persichetti's 20th Century Harmony right? A must read, but yes, he only covers the 'juxtaposed tertian structures' brand of polytonality.

I have a number of interesting papers I could recommend that focus on polytonality in single or several pieces, but I'm not aware of any kind of exhaustive cataloguing that's been done.

[Ludwig 1,120]

All are very different in sound, so the result is a wonderfully pungent stinger. I get the feeling that in these early 80s scores, Williams is experimenting with modernist materials. Not that it's unsystematic, but it has a freedom about it, a lack of adherence to any one system (unlike the great 20th-century concert composers, who tended to be more systematic).

Maybe that's what gives these scores their very attractive, spontaneous, even "wild" sound.

I'm just wandering, is there an academic paper out there on polychords/polytonality (that doesn't limit itself to juxtaposed tertian structures) like that Auvil essay you sent me? Something that catalogues them from the late 19th century to the mid 20th. The Persichetti is great, but I'd to see some of the obscurer composers mentioned.

Funny you should mention it. I have a dissertation on polytonality waiting for me at the library. Damn thing is on microfilm, so I'll have to spend some time scanning it. You'd think everything would be digitized these days. Guess it's that people aren't exactly beating down the doors to get their hands on these things.

There is an article I read recently on polytonality by Mark Delaere. It's ok, not great. Spends most of its time tracing the theory of polytonality in French writings of the 1920s, particularly Milhaud, and seeing if it applies to Milhaud's work, I suppose to see if he practiced what he preached. Unfortunately, it doesn't try to explain polytonality compositionally. The search continues...

[phbart 609]

I rarely come by here, but that's a very interesting discussion. I convinced myself I was one of the few (if not the only one) who thought that "The Secret Passage" was one of the most unusual piece of music from Temple of Doom (or the entire Indy franchise, for that matter) to a point where it deserved to be studied, analyzed or interpreted, rather than simply being reviewed with the rest of the rest of the score. It should have been included in the main disc and not be "throwned" as bonus from a last hour included 5th disc tightened in a cardboard sleeve, to which you have to buy the entire collection to have access to.