GoodMusician
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Posts posted by GoodMusician
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I wasn't sure if you all might know this but the montage cue in SpaceCamp, do we know for a fact Williams did it? I mean, Joseph Williams I would think is more likely to have done that and the fact that the film is filled with Joseph Williams songs kinda makes me think he helped out too...
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Well, the issue was that the original script was very much like the novel... but it ended up being pushed further and further away form the novel until we got some semblance of what was seen in the film.
Spielberg had just come back from a hiatus of film making and i think kinda got a bit...lazy. Jurassic Park he was on a strict schedule and couldn't really play around too much with it. TLW however, he had that ability and it gave him a bit too much to paly around with. by the time the film had been pieced together, it ended up being cut down drastically and restructured. The finale was invented very last minute and I bet it was shot seat of his pants at times.
The finale as in the shooting script even had Ian and Sarah on the venture heading back to the island so that's how much things changed. The sets got smalled, their original plan was to go to New Zealand but they barely even left California except a few shots in Kuai on the ranch of ...i forget who... I wanna say Harrison Fords ex wife... or Lucas'...i forget... anyway... they barely did anything in Kuai and it was all shot on private land.
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hmmm... so Ludlows Speech only covers the part of them in the helicoptor?..not when he talks lol
I wasn't sure you had been updating the first post and my internet is really slow today for some reason today..
EDIT:
Please listen to your album again. 1:41 in the film IS track 3...at [04:33] lol
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sorry was copying and pasting. track 3
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Data, i need to PM you.
Are you sure Ludlows speech isn't from [03:32] - [05:43] of track 3 which isn't heard in the film until [04:34] and even then, part is removed for a short edit when it cuts between the copter and Ludlow.
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12m3 Ludlows Speech is on the album?
12m4 Wompi's Wrench is used in the film?
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It's possible... the alternate orchestration for theme from The Lost World has only been heard in the opening bars... so maybe... but it's exactly in time with the recording so I had assumed it was all recorded at once and just dialed out in the Album version (like in The hunt)
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Gods i havn't listened to the album in ages. let me find it.
Album:
01) Theme from The Lost World (Album) - [03:33]
This is the album mixing of the end credits suite from The Lost World. The Film mixing has extra percussion/winds in the opening measures as heard in the credits and is tracked into Ludlow's death scene (in lue of the actual score).
02) The Island Prologue - [05:03]
The opening of this is known now as "[1m1] The Island's Voice" which extends from [00:00] - [03:27]
At [03:27] - [05:03] is "[9m2] The Compies!"
03) Malcolm's Journey - [05:03]
The opening of this track is "[3m1] To the Island" and continues from [00:00] - [03:32]
From [03:32] - [05:43] is "[12m3] Ludlow's Speech" which isn't heard in the film until [04:34] and even then, part is removed for a short edit when it cuts between the copter and Ludlow.
04) The Hunt - [03:30]
This is pretty much all of "[4m3/5m1] The Round Up"
This completely unused in the film because the sequence was re-edited and extended. In the original edit, all of the pachy scenes were one after another where as in the film it makes them more spread out. The album also cuts off before the cue truly finishes.
The full percussion mix of this track is not available on the album.
05) The Trek - [05:23]
This is the entirety of "[8m4/9m1] The Trek"
This is another completely unused cue in the film. It was meant to start when Roland says "Lets get this moveable feast underway" instead of the flourish into the "Malcolm's Journey" track. It is also one fo the few tracks that contain a statement of the Jurassic Park theme which was meant to occur when Ludlow speaks of "Hammond's dream" to Malcolm.
This cue also was meant to continue on where as in the film the music stops. If layered under the film it would fit perfectly. The low fluttering of the winds underscores the mercenaries adding a cool accent and almost motif to these characters.
06) Finding Camp Jurassic - [03:03]
This is the entirety of "[10m3/11m1] After The Fall"
This is used in the film almost entirely. At [00:48] Williams revisits his percussion beat used in "Jurassic Park Gate" as we see the painting on the wall showing the park as it was envisioned with a muted JP theme playing (another instance of the theme playing). The final seconds and statement of the JP theme at the end of this track are not used.
07) Saving Sarah - [04:00]
This is the second half of "[8m2] Truck Stop"
This is almost always called "Attack on the Trailer" as not to confuse it with the scene before it with Sarah on the glass window.
If my understanding of the score is correct, the first half of this track is not on the album. The second half (with a small omission in the middle of the best part) is whats presented here. The first half of [02:16] i've always called "Eddie Delivers" which is probably more inline with the cue title "truck stop" heh.
08) Hammond's Plan - [04:31]
The first part of this cue is "[2m2] Revealing The Plans." It extends from [00:00] - [02:05]. This is another instance of the JP theme being utilized. In fact, this entire cue is a diminished version of the Theme from Jurassic Park and "The dinosaurs" theme from Jurassic Park. The two are intertwined and given a very somber and sad feeling.
From [02:05] - [04:31] is "[10m2] Steiner In The Grass" as an obvious homage to Max Steiner's cue "The Island" from King Kong.
09) The Raptors Appear - [03:42]
Meant to overlap the end of the last track "[10m2] Steiner in the Grass" this cue is used entirely in the film and comprises the entirety of its same named "[11m2] The Raptors Appear."
10) The Compies Dine - [05:07]
This comprises the entirety of "[9m3/10mA] The Compys Dine."
From [00:00] - [02:46] is used in the film. From [02:46] - [03:43] is the alternate of what i've always called"Crashing the Sleepover." In this version, we hear a much more dramatic and dire sound eminating from Ian's character as he hears the plans to get to the Outpost station to call for help. After the low boom at [03:27] when Roland turns off his flashlight after saying "And then, we hit it," speaking of the outpost, Ian turns to look at his family and we see them sleeping in the tent.
[03:43] is what i'm proposing is "[6m2/7m1] Part II Up In A Basket" as this isn't heard in the film, and this music would fit the sequence as Ian runs from the High hide to the trailers after hearing the rex roar. I could be wrong.
11) The Stegosaurus - [05:20]
This is the entirety of the same titled cue "[3m2] The Stegosaurus" from [00:00] - [02:10]. Starting at [02:10] - [05:20] is the complete "[3m3] Finding The Baby."
12) Ludlow's Demise - [04:26]
From [00:00] - [01:35] is the new version of "What they Didn't Like" as used in the film aka: "[10m1] Rialto Ripples". The album only presents most of it (leaving out the finale of this cue) as it then cuts to "[13m3/14m1] Ludlow's End" which is dialed out around the [01:54] mark. This presents the full version of "Ludlow's End."
13) Visitor in San Diego - [07:37]
This track includes "[13m1] A Neighborhood Visitor" which is partially unused in the film (the opening is dialed out). It merges it with the next cue "[13m2] Streets Of San Diego" at the [03:23] mark
14) Finale and Jurassic Park Theme - [07:54]
I've often believed that Williams re-recorded the Theme from Jurassic Park in the recording sessions of TLW because of this track. In concert recordings after JP, he began performing the theme much faster than he originally wrote it. In this, he performs it at that speed instead.
[00:00] - [02:23] is "[14m2] The Saving Dart." At [02:23] the Album then presents the new recording of "Theme from Jurassic Park" until [05:06]. Until i see the score, my hypothesis is that Williams inserted the 11 bars "End Credits Intro" at this point. The horn solo playing the theme with the strings underneath until [05:24]. This then is cut with the second half of the re-recording of "Theme from Jurassic Park."
Hope this helps.
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This the cue list i had compiled based on the complete score edit i made.
$ - On Album
% - Unused
* - Unreleased
# - NA
# Universal Logo
01) $ Island Prologue - [01:42]
$ Kathy's beach - [00:58]
$ Lost World Found - [00:54]
1m1 The Island's Voice (John Neufeld, 68 bars)
02) # 1m2 "Beethoven's Pathetique" - [04:51]
03) # 2m1 "Mozart Sonata in a minor - [08:01]
04) $ Hammond's Plan - [02:12]
2m2 Revealing The Plans (John Neufeld, 37 bars)
05) $ Malcolm's Journey - [03:34]
3m1 To The Island (Conrad Pope, 123 bars)
06) $ The Stegosaurus - [02:19]
3m2 The Stegosauras (Conrad Pope, 44 bars)
07) $ Can't Not Touch - [01:46]
$ Protecting their Baby - [01:29]
3m3 Finding The Baby (John Neufeld, 91 bars)
08) *Stowaway Revealed - [00:59]
4m1 Fire At Camp (Conrad Pope, 25 bars)
09) */% Team B Arrives - [02:22]
4m2 Corporate Choppers (Conrad Pope, 76 bars)
10) $/% The Hunt - [03:34]
4m3/5m1 The Round Up (Conrad Pope, 144 bars)
11) */% The Fallen - [01:09]
5m2 Tortured (Conrad Pope, 21 bars)
12) */% Team B Basecamp - [04:13]
(This covers a longer cut of the sequence where the characters cut the fuel lines of the vehicles and sneak about the camp)
5m3/6m1 Spilling Petrol (John Neufeld & Conrad Pope, 85 bars)
13) *Team B Basecamp (Insert) - [01:21]
(This covers as they release the animals)??
14) */% Rampage - [02:17]
*Rampage (unkown segment) - [00:47]
5m3/6m1 Part II Horning In (John Neufeld & Conrad Pope, 45 bars)
15) *Somplace High - [01:05]
6m2/7m1 Up In A Basket (Conrad Pope, 66 Bars)
16) ??????
6m2/7m1 Part II Up In A Basket (John Neufeld, 75 bars)
17) *Saving Sarah - [01:48]
7m2/8m1 Pain Of Glass (John Neufeld, 67 bars)
18) *Eddie Delivers - [02:16]
*Attack on the Trailer - [05:09]
8m2 Truck Stop (John Neufeld, 156 bars)
20) */% Velociraptors - [01:26]
8m3 Reading The Map (John Neufeld, 90 bars)
21) %The Trek - [02:41]
%The Compy's Appear - [01:21]
%Dieter's Demise - [01:21]
8m4/9m1 The Trek (John Neufeld, 138 bars)
22a) # Tres Dias (Source) - [??:??]
22) $ Surrounded - [01:35]
9m2 The Compys! (Conrad Pope, 67 bars)
23) $ The Compy's Dine - [02:48]
9m3/10mA The Compys Dine (Conrad Pope, 76 bars)
24) $ What they Didn't Like - [01:02]
25) $/% What they Didn't Like (Alternate) - [01:00]
26) $/* Crashing the Sleepover - [02:45]
or
$ Crashing the Sleepover (alternate) - [01:24]
*Don't Move - [02:19]
10m1 Rialto Ripples (John Neufeld, 183 bars)
27) $ The Long Grass - [02:27]
(Named this because its an homage to "The Island" from King kong)
10m2 Steiner In The Grass (Conrad Pope, 60 bars)
28) $ Finding Camp Jurassic - [03:01]
(Named this because they slide down and "fall" into the area where they find Camp Jurassic)
10m3/11m1 After The Fall (Conrad Pope, 58 bars)
29) $ The Raptors Appear - [03:42]
11m2 The Raptors Appear (John Neufeld, 104 bars)
30) *Raptor Attack I - [01:22]
*Raptor Attack II - [01:02]
*Raptor Attack III - [01:18 ~]
11m3/12m1 High Bar and Ceiling Tiles (John Neufeld, 136 bars)
31) *Saved - [00:19]
12m2 Heading North (Conrad Pope, 46 bars)
32) $/% The Company of Death - [01:02]
$/% Return to San Diego - [01:10]
12m3 Ludlow's Speech (John Neufeld, 91 bars)
33) *S. S. Venture's Woes - [02:01]
12m4 Wompi's Wrench (John Neufeld, 36 bars)
34) */% The King Arrives - [01:08]
12m5 Monster On The Loose (John Neufeld & Conrad Pope, 50 bars)
35) *Secure Facility - [01:17]
????
36) $/% Visitor in San Diego - [02:11]
$ Taking the Kid - [01:21]
13m1 A Neighborhood Visitor (John Neufeld, 72 bars)
37) $ Downtown Rex - [04:14]
13m2 Streets Of San Diego (Conrad Pope, 105 bars)
37) $ Ludlow's Demise - [02:52]
13m3/14m1 Ludlow's End (John Neufeld & Conrad Pope, 74 bars)
39) $ Finale - [02:27]
14m2 The Saving Dart (Conrad Pope, 57 bars)
End Credits Intro (11 bars)
40) $ End Credits - [02:46]
41) $ Theme from The Lost World (album) - [03:32]
Or
* Theme from The Lost World (Alternate mix) - [03:32]
The Lost World (End Credits) (John Neufeld & Conrad Pope, 134 bars)
42) $Theme from Jurassic Park (Concert Arrangmenet) - [5:30]
(Contains End Credits intro alternate in the middle)
EDIT:
Ok, i think i'm figured something out.
In the album we go from "The Compy's Dine" into what I called "What they Didn't like," it then had the blaring horns and bams of the timp in what i thought was "Crashing the Sleepover Altnerate"
If I'm right, it looks like what happened was williams wrote "The Compy's Dine to Include the alternate version of "What they DIdn't like" hence "9m3/10mA"
Then he went back and wrote a new "What they Didn't Like" to include the "Crashing the Sleepover" film version.. the drums and such.. this came to be known as "Rialto Ripples 10m1"
What I THOUGHT was an Alternate version of "Crashing the Sleepover" is really "Up in the Basket Part II" which would come in after the rex roared. Its on the album. I'll try to figure this out.
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I'll have to go through this. i LOVE that he calls it "Stiener in the Grass" I KNEW it was meant to be an omage to King Kongs "The Island" heh... anyway, i can already see that the alternates are missing.
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Probably because we all had hope the series would find its way home again...
I'm all for development... but towards what? I don't see this as development.. it was being different for the sake of being different.
Now not to say its bad, although i hated GOF's score for the most part... but i just feel it wasn't.. controlled enough. It needed guidelines... it needed supervision. Instead it was "what can we place against this" and i think that's the bigger travesty. if fans could look at it and see the progression.. they'd be happier.. even if the scores weren't quite the same stylistically... they'd have a sense of...progression.
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So, for any Sci-Fi fan, this came as a big blow. CAPRICA was announced as cancled. SyFy will air the next episode and hold the Final Four till 2011...
Now love it or hate it, CAPRICA was well done. Treated like the bastard child, the show never got enough press, never did the runs on the talk shows and was treated like a poorly run machine when the opposite was true.
Slow to build, the show had to establish, firmly, a plethora of characters... all three dimentional...all strong and weak... all important.
The first half of the season aired to 75% approval...and then blank... nothing... the show was on hiatus till 2011... when suddenly, from the ether... it returned... and began airing again, with little to no announcement.
Fans of the series were only just learning it was on when this week SyFy (in its intense wisdom) cancelled the show.
MIND YOU:
facebook/syfy has 166,000 followers.
facebook/Caprica has 101,000 ....
yea... and we're all pissed
I implore all of you to do this simple thing:
Call universal, ask to leave a message about the programming, and leave a message asking for the show to come back...and to get a second season. It was truly a gem... and was only gearing up to impress.
Call Universal:1-818-777-1000
Allisondra Toresani (Zoe Graystone-the first cylon) is leading a cause #SaveCaprica and we are sending apples to universal and syfy execs.
Please, love it or hate it, give the show a chance... at least call the number (we've already filled the voicemail box for syfy.com) and if you can, send an apple with the infinity symbol to Universal/SyFy headquarters.
Mark SternExecutive VP Original Programming
NBC Universal – Sci Fi Channel
100 Universal City PlazaBldg. 1400, 14th Floor
Universal City, CA 91608
Steve BurkeCEO of NBC/Universal
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112
We're even getting press now:
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2010/10/caprica-apples/
Follow "Zoe" and "Sam" on twitter too! they're mobilizing too!
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Its not that the scores not good. and its not that the score won't work for the film.
I think the question was.. appropriateness...
You don't make a STAR WARS film and not open with the fox fanfare and [01:30] of 'Main Title'... Williams started the series with a credits selection and when he scored the credits for Episode III (the finale of the series) he retold that same selection.
Then again, William's knows how to tip his hat be it small moments of "monster movie" horns in war of the worlds, orchestrations ala Raymond scott in the source music to TOD, the VERY Aaron Copland americana in Superman and even the VERY Jazzy New York sound ala Leonard Bernstein in Home Alone II...
I do feel part of the magic that made the films...what they are... was williams. Who do they call when the park opens? Williams... who did they ask to make trailer music? Who did they keep around even though he could barely score the second film? That's because he did the films justice... and i think that the following composers, for whatever reasons, felt to travel so far away from the real Harry Potter... that its barely recognizeable anymore...and that i feel is the bigger tragedy...
I like the music. It shows talent... but its not what i feel HP7 needed... not completely... which is why i write my own score :-p
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We wouldn't want a repeat of the Trenton incident
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Actually i'd argue the first sample sounds like something from Zimmer's Batman, and I swear one reminded me of The Lion King too...
Dobby sounds like something from Elfman (like for a video game like Fable)
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anyone notice that the other site has been taken down...
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And regarding this specific creak, I actually hear two different locations - a very central creak that leads right into a louder, higher-pitched one toward the right. A moment later, there's another creak from that second location, and then another a short while later. Is this consistent with what you hear, GoodMusician?
I hear what you mean, but it's only a slight push to the right consistent with leaning back in a chair. The person leaned back after having played their final note, the chair creaked and then the back of the chair put out the higher pitch, the person stopped moving, then tried to move back slightly again (click click) and then forward in hopes that the chair wouldn't make further noise. The noise is so close to the mic though... I still almost wonder if its cellos, but a cello player playing wouldn't be leaning back.
I amend what i said and correct it to be that it's a viola who had just finished playing.
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I'm not sure i like it. It's good, definately... but it's... it feels generic. Williams always makes a unique sound for a film and this... this doesn't sound unique... it sounds mature, yes... has that Elfman/Zimmer quality... but it doesn't sound like it has its own identity. I fear it will do well in the film, but not away from it.
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My grandmother use to get angry at anyone who said it that way, claiming it had to be Ber-nerd, which when i was at college, my British conductor use to call me Ber-nerd heh... so I dunno :-p
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Well, unless they changed the micing for every cue in JP, i'd say it stayed pretty consistent. As for that, the way i edit music, i listen for these things... stage noises and where instruments are, especially when mixing media from several sources. like when i did my star wars edits, i had to listen to where the winds were and the brass or when i did my complete Temple of Doom edit, i had to phase invert the channels in order to fix the mixing errors of the most recent box set because they flipped the mixing of the winds and percussion around but not the strings (ie: moving the left justification of the winds and flutes out to the farthest regions and keeping the violins more narrow. Simply phase inverting the left and right channels flips this mess around and puts the flutes near the center and the strings out wider as they should be.
I dunno if it's neither here nor there but even with 20/20 vision, i have this weird fascination with sound and how blind people sense/hear the room. I always say that if i had to choose which sense to loose, it would be sight. Place me in a room and i can hear the couch based on the ambient sound. It changes based on the proximity to large objects and their positions in rooms.
Granted, there isn't anything so bold as a large couch in these recordings, but JP was recorded VERY live. The winds have definite placements and if you listen to the recording, who's playing...strings... I was never certain if it was Violas (who just finished playing) or the cellos (who are playing and are closer to the mic) but its one of the two. There is a great deal of definition in a lot of Williams recordings and its one of the reasons i love them. Its what i strive for when i mix or edit music.
Zimmer doesn't have it. Horner is closer. Modern Williams is being mixed less and less like this. Take IJ4 for example. It's mixed in a very awkward way. Too narrow for my tastes. Where as JP is very live and wide and brilliant. Star Wars Episode I has some brilliant mixing (most 90's williams scores do). AI is another one that utilizes the sound of the room to exceptional quality and to a lesser extent minority Report.
If that makes any sense... granted, when i joined this forum i couldn't do this... but the more i listened and edited, the more sensitive to it i became...
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I'm sorry, but based on my (somewhat limited) knowledge of how recordings work, I don't see how it would be possible to gather that from the audio. Left/right information is there, obviously, and if you're just recording something with a single microphone, you can determine relative distances by the intensity of the sound. But with a setup involving 100 players and lots of mics, how would it be possible to extract this information?
Well, you can tell based on reverb, based on room sound, based on the ratio of the actual source to the reflections. Its not too hard to tell...
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lol... am i the only one who can tell depth by recordings? lol... It's maybe... maybe.. the 2-3rd stand of violas... They had just finished playing so one of the instrumentalists probably leaned back to relax as the cello's played their last note only to find out his/her chair had to make a statement lol...It could be no more than 8-10 feet form the stage right recording mic.
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How can you possibly know whose chair is creaking?
I was wondering the same thing. I always hear the chair creak at the end of the track, but how in the world would one determine that it was one of the cellists?
You can tell because it comes from that section. It may be a viola though but its in that area. The only people playing are Cellos and it sounds like someone leaning back into the chair and hearing it creak, then leaning forward as to stop it from creaking but its right there in the right channel center where the cello's are. Its not too far back so it can't be anything else except cello, maybe viola heh
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To me the film does something that doesn't usually happen in films: It asks you to question a lot of what you know.
I think that's where the criticism came. Most people wouldn't/ couldn't overcome the barrier of believing in David or in David's love. They were too busy being creped out. I honestly found when i first saw it that a great deal of the family scenes were... uncomfortable to watch-like being at a friends house and watching their parent scream at them-sort of uncomfortable. Great drama. Great acting. Great music. Brilliant cinematography and BRILLIANT set designs... (I want the house!)
One of the things about the film too is its interplay of the relationship of the mother and "child." Never having had a relationship with my mother, it hit kinda hard too. Seeing the extents the child would go through to make his mother love him... well.. I think it says all it needs to.
The supermecha also are necessary: a reasonable next step for the story to be fully rounded. They aren't "aliens" and they aren't spielbergs addition. It had to happen. The story had to go there. Most people i talked to said the film was "over" when David got trapped in the amphibicopter. Not so. It needed to find the finale and it only happens the way it does in the film.
There are also a ton of unanswered questions per Kubric usual: did the supermecha make an artificial simulation of Davids house? Did they really bring Monica back corporially or just her consciousness in this fake area they watched him in.
When David went to sleep, did he die too?
It really was very touching. I can't watch the movie without bawling my eyes out.
I argue there isn't a single bad frame in that film. You could no doubt stop that movie and make a poster of every single frame.
I also love the little cameos. You have Meryl Streep as Blue Fairy, the lady who plays Tan Wee from Star Wars Episode II was discovered through this film (The lady at the flesh fair 'Anyone loose this toy?'), of course Robin Williams, and the mother from CAPRICA was the lady who hires Gigolo Joe ("I'm scared." "Of me?" "Of what you have under there. Can I see it?"), the jealous husband who killed his wife was on 'Just Shoot Me,' the brilliant character actor of Mad Eye Moody played the Mecha Hunter who's name i've forgotten, the mother later used in Minority Report whose scenes were cut, Brett Kingsley from Schnidlers List gave his voice to a character, even one of the boys in the car that bring David and Joe to Rouge City was D.J. Conner in Roseanne! I mean come on... these are all big actors known for a big thigns lol...and they get one line...literally a walk on roll. lol...
It's a brilliant film start to finish. THe score is amazing. period. It is amazing. I had trouble with it when i first heard it before i saw the movie, once i saw the movie, it is a score i turn to on a blue, cloudy day heh.
Brilliant.
Complete Cue List: The Lost World: Jurassic Park
in General Discussion
Posted
REALLY? But it fits sooo well over Ludlow talking "You have your trophy! What the matter?"... you just have to give a small break before "Heading North"
hmmm.....