tedfud

perfect....just ordered....thank you very much t

ah . I managed to find a copy of "Wagner Nights" by ernest newman . On page 580 it sights "the Volsung Woe" ( no. 54 ) . Is that an index of all the leitmotifs ? So this movement on to the F# is based on specific story telling.....Marvellous . I must study the leitmotifs in more detail. What book would you recommend ? It's strange to think the basis of all this music comes from just melodies . And that their re-use as harmony is so common. T

oh i remember those....diatonic or chromatic.....scheherazade is full of em . Bernstein is ace....I've learned a lot form "the unanswered question". So that's what it is. It's so short ( the phrase ) in the Star Wars example that i missed it . thanks t

hopefully this is better many thanks for all your help t

ah...many thanks . Yes this is a bit of a mess. I could only find one piano score of this by Busoni and it wasn't much help. I have tried to get the basics down but now you have pointed that out i'll go back and check. I just thought it would be a great thing to learn how to play on the piano. This is bar 4....I don't really understand ( unless the tie from the previous bar is a quaver ) how this all fits in t

Hiya peeps quick question : in bar 4 the second beat plays a D and F# dyad in both hands . Before resolving back to the Cm ( tonic ). Is this heard as a D maj chord ? What would it's function ( roman numeral ) be ? . To my ears ,it doesn't sound like we have left the key until the C7 in bar 4 moves to the F. Or is this just a non functioning appoggiatura chord . (i'm still trying to get my ears around those). many thanks T

Obsession would be great....Really can't understand why it hasn't been re-recorded like so many other Benny scores....suspect legal chicanery. I'd like Satan Bug to get a good going over too. I find it a really unique score for Jerry ...the FSM is pretty good but many cues are missing and there's FX over a lot of them t

Yes ..I think it's in a minor.. sounds like dyads in the high strings with the basses descending....I have heard this a million times before.......what is it ?...Wagner ? t

doh...sorry that 5 won't work t

why does THIS sound like such a cliche ( at 30 sec's ) Is this a well known device ? and if so what is it ? T

octatonic ? t

oh the transcriptions is from Mr Shark ( i suspect NOT his real name )...I messed up the quote button t

FROM:MR SHARK This is my attempt at transcribing it, excluding the sustained Cs (Violin II tremolo C5 tremolo and Violin I harmonics 16va): http://www.noteflight.com/scores/view/b1cacc77a3dd962dd8f54e79414954109cfc616e You've got a contrapuntal line moving in contrary motion in m. 1, which then changes to parallel motion in the following measures - minor then major 6ths. The outline of the melody could be divided into two tetrachords ([0,1,5,6] and [0,1,4,7]), and one trichord - [0,3,6). The last of these is a diminished triad, and fits naturally into an octatonic collection. It's also worth mentioning that the sustain of the vibraphone is likely causing some extra dissonance here. thanks for this...very interesting. Where do you think this melody comes from ? how do you think he arrived at those pitches. I think I recognise the rhythm t

You're joking. Williams verbally says otherwise in the DVD extra for the film. How could it be a myth? Never take anything Stef says seriously. Because the film version of "Escape, Chase, Saying Goodbye" consists of several takes edited together and at least 3 inserts. Now I'm sure JW recorded a take of this music without the film running. But the story that Spielberg re-edited his film to fit that take doesn't seem to hold much water. Yes, I'm pretty sure Williams's anecdote refers to 11m4-12m1 The Departure. Another case of broken telephone. That still sounds like more of a legend to me than something that fits the facts really well. Here's a quote from Lucas in The Making of Star Wars: Sounds to me like he knew what he wanted all along, Williams just swayed him a little more in the original theme direction. yes he is on record saying he wanted a 40's type score....but i don't think that's what he got. Aside from the more obvious Korngold moments i think williams took it a lot further . But your right, Lucas does seem to have a clear idea of what he wanted....my error. t I agree. I always thought Herrmann came through much stronger as an influence. There dozens of bits that could easily have come from one of his Harryhausen scores. This cue above all. wow..... sounds like the crab in mysterious island or something ..... t But Star Wars is a score based primarily on three musical techniques: polytonality, parallelism, and pedal point. For that reason, I don't consider Williams to have begun a "return" to classical Hollywood techniques, but rather a modernization of them. Actually maybe there IS 40's melodrama. 30 secs in sounds like "gone with the wind"...i'm sure that rising , fast chord progression is a staple golden era technique. Mr shark's cue got me thinking THIS really is a very varied score..... t

You're joking. Williams verbally says otherwise in the DVD extra for the film. How could it be a myth? Never take anything Stef says seriously. Because the film version of "Escape, Chase, Saying Goodbye" consists of several takes edited together and at least 3 inserts. Now I'm sure JW recorded a take of this music without the film running. But the story that Spielberg re-edited his film to fit that take doesn't seem to hold much water. Yes, I'm pretty sure Williams's anecdote refers to 11m4-12m1 The Departure. Another case of broken telephone. That still sounds like more of a legend to me than something that fits the facts really well. Here's a quote from Lucas in The Making of Star Wars: Sounds to me like he knew what he wanted all along, Williams just swayed him a little more in the original theme direction. yes he is on record saying he wanted a 40's type score....but i don't think that's what he got. Aside from the more obvious Korngold moments i think williams took it a lot further . But your right, Lucas does seem to have a clear idea of what he wanted....my error. t

it's a strange mixture to be sure. I suspect ( given the time period of the seventies and the current sound of film scores ) Lucas was probably much clearer on what he DIDN'T want ! . So he gravitated to what he considered 'timeless" music and raided the classics. Including the rite of spring . I wouldn't be a bit surprised if williams ( knowledgable charmer that he is ) managed to sell Lucas on the idea of those sorts of harmonies and orchestral colours all tied up in a bit of Wagnerian story telling . It's obvious Williams really enjoyed himself and he is on record for thinking the whole thing was a bit of a kids picture. He was rather surprised it was such a smash . To me it sounds like he really upped his game on Empire and Jedi.....not that Star wars isn't fantastic . But i find it much more disjointed, and referencial. I can really spot the influences..even with " the dune sea" having the same chords.....I think he focused a lot more on telling the story in his own way from the next instalment . And when you get to "Emperor's throne room" and "The Death Of Vader" i think he's on fire.....completely free of the constraints I suspect he felt on "star wars"....he had , in effect, come up with the language .... e

Some Bernard Hermann ? North By Northwest, Psycho , Cape Fear, Fahrenheit 451 ? ......Vertigo Alan Silvestri Predator , Back to the future Max Steiner King Kong Michael Small marathon man Nino Rota Godfather Henry Mancini the pink panther ....surely a case study in the art of defining a character in music.....Charade, After Dark and Yes Jerry Goldsmith including : Star Trek : TMP, Outland, Planet of the apes, First Blood, The Satan Bug , there...that should keep you busy......it's a wonderful blog....very informative e

heretic !....and your avatar is sacrilegious t

yes it does...really emphasising that flat 2nd t

Hi Ludwig I'm curious . Why is the ostinato phrygian ? isn't it c,e,e,e flat ,e flat ,d flat e flat,d flat, c...wouldn't that be considered octatonic ? and again in the woodwind runs in bar 17 e,f,g,a flat . wouldn't Phrygian have an a ? ah.....sorry my bad. Just understood that it's a "dominant phrygian". Didn't know of this ....as you where ! t

excellent advice t

it's in "the day the earth stood still" original. BH was fascinated with the idea. in the scene where Gort fixes Klatuu t

ok that makes sense. So he is basically mixing up modes. I found a reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_cadence...and also a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_dominant_scale. But to be honest it seems a lot more likely that its more than one thing. t

oh....so this isn't phrygian then? t

Been listening to a lot of Mr Rozsa over the last week and have a question. at:50 secs we arrive on the F major chord ( here seemingly implied as a dominant ) Then move back to the melody stated on the Bb maj ( strings play a jaunty F,Bb,C,F ) and yet at; 23 (beforehand) we hear the F as minor ( no key change seem's to have happened ). The chords seem to be. Based on the scale Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb Ab. . Chords again seem to be . maj, maj,maj, min, min, maj, maj .. so..In phrygian are the Tonic and Dominant both major OR minor.....or is this a kind of planing..... thanks T