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Posts posted by Naïve Old Fart
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Both have their good points.
I'm with you, Stefan, on this one. The Intrada c.d. IS magnificent, and is one of J.G.'s best scores of the 70s, not to mention one of the finest "action" scores ever. The re-recording, however, is much better sonically, and is played by a much better orchestra. Like you, I have both, but, I would say that, if one has the Intrada, then it is not absolutely necessary to get this new release. I ,however, will be queueing up at Movie Boulevard on Monday morning...You pay yer money, and yer takes yer choice.
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Scott needs to work with Alberto Iglesias.
Alex, EVERYONE needs to work with Alberto Inglesias!!!!! This is an interseting post and one which I will follow regurlarly. My choice for composer would be either Eliot Goldenthal (what an absoultely superb score for "Alien3"?!), or, because he did a rather good job on "The Omen" (not to mention being tutored by you-know-who), Marco Beltrami. I really do think that Scott knows the pitfalls of doing a prequel, but if it is done well, and with integrety, I'm sure that it will make for a good, if not great, film. Scott has wanted to explore the Alien backstory for some time, and now it seems that he will get his wish. I wish him well.
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Ottman was supposed to score X-men originally (logically of course, it's a Singer movie). He couldn't, and it became a mess so at the end they rushed Kamen into the production. You don't work that way with John Williams.
"You don't work that way with John Williams"? You are obviously forgetting "The Rievers", "The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing", and "Rosewood", which were all last minute re-scores. Another good question would be: has J.W. ever had a score rejected, what film was it for, and was it ever re-used? In the 70s, I remember listening to a radio programme called "Starsound", which, one time, mentioned the non-score to "The China Syndrome". Apparently, a score was written by "a major Hollywood composer", but was unused. The only use of music in the film is a song called "Somewhere Inbetween" by Stephen Bishop, heard on the radio when the film crew is travelling up to the power plant. P.s., I am convinced that I once saw a teaser poster for "Lost In Space", with Jerry Goldsmith's name on it.
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I never noticed how often he said it until I someone made a post about it on a board somewhere. Now it leaps out at me everytime he says it!
Sorry I mentioned it!
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I have said this before, namely that the (new) series needed both actors-Eccleston to get it up-and-running, and to give it much-needed credibility, and Tennant to kick it into orbit, and to make it the success that it has become. Tennant is a very good "physical" Doctor, in the mold of Jon Pertwee (still the all-round greatest of them all), but Eccleston is by far the better, far more nuanced actor. I'm not happy that Tennant is going, but I'm not sad, either, and I'm begining to get just a little fed up of all his "what?"s, and his "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry"s. Eccleston knew exactly how long to stay in the role, and, in his own way, so did Tennant. Having said that, the Tennant era has had a lot of simply marvelous, thrilling, heartbreaking stories, and I will be glued to my set for the last three epidodes. So, the answer is...Eccleston, but Tennant is good to (or is that too good?) BTW, if you think that the new stuff is funny, then check out Roger Delgado's Master trying to communicate with The Clangers via T.V. in "The Sea Devils". I fell off my sofa, crying with laughter!
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Jaws
E.T. : The Extra Terrestrial
Star Wars (1977)
You can't mess with that Joe!
Yes you can, Stefan, and now I will show you how:
C.E.3.K.
Superman
The Empire Strikes Back
I have been following this thread for some time now, and I honestly cannot think of anything extra to say about it, except that I have no hesitation in giving both film and score a whopping 5 points. I first saw this film a couple of days after its Royal premiere, in London, 1978, at The A.B.C., Shaftesbury Avenue. I loved the film, and I still do, and the score went straight into my top ten J.W. scores at number 2, and has stayed there ever since. It is easy to forget, with all the advances in C.G.I. and such, just how innovative "Superman" really was. It's also easy to forget, with the film being re-appraised, that around the time of "Batman", "Superman" was thought of as a joke, it not being all dark, an' all. After all, who wanted to see silly man in Lycra, who wears his pants on the outside of his trousers, when you could watch a dark, brooding, seriously screwed-up, "real" superhero dressed in head-to-toe leather, punching the s##t out of people? Well, big deal! I like the first 2 "Batman" films (the 1960s version is not counted) a lot, but what brings me back to "Superman", is that he actually helps people, likes to help people, and does it without resorting to using machine guns, and such. I will confess that I haven't read many of the comics, but I can't imagine that the "Superman" ethos has changed that much. For me, "Superman" represents an almost utopian vision of society where everyone is valued, everyone is respected, and everyone has equal worth. That is exactly why Jor-El sent his only son; to encourage this to happen. It sure beats men in leather, or whatever, using guns, gadgets, fists, and cars to get their point over. Maybe the world needs "Superman" more than it realises.
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I saw this at the weekend. For a film that lasted 10 minutes longer than OOP, it seemed to me that even less happened in this one than did in the last! I guess that this film is about character, and not action, although, when action happened (the attack on London, the attack on the Weasley home) it wasn't bad. There just wasn't enough of it. Having said that, I did like it, and will see it again, and buy the d.v.d., or Blu-Ray, or whatever format is the norm by October. Rickman was quite brillant, as was Broardbent, and Radcliffe actually acted, for a change. After watching, I flicked thru films I-IV, and these last two really do attempt to get inside the coplexities of the whole Potter/Voldemort conflict. I just wish there was more for the likes of Maggie Smith, David Thewlis (Lupin being my favourite character) and David Bradley to do. I really do hope that JW scores the last movies, because, (and as I have posted on another thread) only he can do the end of the series any musical justice.
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"Must... switch... album... with last... dying... breath....."
"Oh no! Shuffle... went to... Banning Back Home....."
*gargl*
My c.d. just shuffled to..."Flying Dreams", and has lined up "We're Home Again" as the track after! Where did I put that revolver?
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"Early Pink Floyd" to me is everything after Syd Barrett and before Dark Side Of The Force ... uh ... Moon. I love More (OST), Meddle, Obscured By Clouds.
That being said, I've never heard one single note of Ummagumma. I know it's a double album where one LP/CD is live while the other is a studio album.
Alex
Not heard "Ummagumma"? Honestly, Alex, you are not missing much! "Grantchester Meadows" is quite nice, tho'
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Or you could be listening to Jerry Goldsmith when you check out.
You could, but why would you want to..?
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Alex, what would you class as "early"? I only say this as AHM was in 1970, and Piper...was in 1967. Would I be right in thinking that everything between '67, and '70 is early? If so, that's a bit like saying that everything between Trespass, and Selling England.. would be Gennesis' early period.
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I have been listening to the music of JW (and, for that matter, Jerry Goldsmith) for well over 35 years, and I see no reason to stop this very enjoyable practice. For the record, I have been listening to The Beatles for 42 years, Queen for 35 years, and Rush, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, X.T.C., Earth, Wind, and Fire, and Pink Floyd for well over 30 years. My point is this: why on Earth should I stop? I LIKE listening to these artists, and my life is enriched because of it. The city where I live hosts a yearly Hi Fi show, and people of all ages go down there to listen to all sorts of music, played on all sorts of systems. The two types of music chosen to listen to most by the punters, however, are classical, and jazz. The people who listen to either classical and/or jazz, have probably been listening to these types of music for 30 years longer than I have been alive, and most have their favourite artists (Miles Davies is EXTREMELY popular). These people have not grown out of, or forsaken their chosen music because of fads, changing trends, or personal circumstances. Why would they? If people "go off" JW, then so be it. I regard it as their loss. If they return to his music later in their lives, then that is a cause for celebration. Music is like any other long-term activity; it needs to be nurtured, and grown in as an "organic way" as possible. Exposure to good music will always have its pay-offs, and I have certainly had my fair share of those, as I have travelled along Life's highway, with JW's music at my side. I hope to be listening be listening to JW's music until the day I die (and, perhaps, ON the day I die). JW's music is a part of my DNA, and I'm not sure that I could give it up, even if I wanted to!
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To me, Beaubourg is noise,
And that's exactly how some look at Images or Planet Of The Apes.
I guess we should be grateful for Images not being the Calling All Stations, or Tormato or The Final Cut of J.W., eh?Williams' Tormato probably has to be Heartbeeps.
You don't like The Final Cut, Richard? Do you feel that it's too much one of Roger Waters' personal crusades?
Alex
I don't necessarilly dislike The Final Cut, Alex, but it came out after my all-time favourite Floyd, namely The Wall, so, IMO it was bound to be a dissapointment. I do like Waters: I like Amused to Death (on a really good system, the Q Sound is phenomenal; just crank it up to 11 for What God Wants, and feel the anger!), and Ca Ira, and Music From The Body, and I adore Radio K.A.O.S. I could not honestly say what I thought was JW's least engaging score, but I guess that I must say that IMO, Hook comes pretty near the bottom of the list. I take your point about POTA being noise, but that's what they said about The Rite Of Spring........They were wrong...
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Ew.
What's so gross about Emma Watson? Or did you mean "Entertainment Weekly"?
BEHAVE YOURSELVES!
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I will agree that the Director's Cut for The Abyss is much better than the theatrical version of the film. It really helps flesh out things, especially at the end of the film with the Aliens and Bud. The only thing I disliked is the change of music they did for when the Alien "city" is coming up the wall at the end of the film. If you watch the scene when Linds says, "One Night, get to sonar!" in the theatrical version it's Silvestri's original music but in the Director's Cut it's some synth job.
Hopefully the movie gets a Blu-Ray release soon.
Thanks for putting me right on this, Trent. Yes, lets hope that The Abyss gets a nice Blu-Ray release, complete with D.T.S. sound (not that the original is bad, mind you). I think the music in the scene that you mention, is from The Seventh Sign (or is that when the N.T.I.s are showing Bud why they are prepared to destroy The Earth?).
As for DCs/ExCs, what about Earthquake, and has anybody re-edited The Towering Inferno d.v.d. with the extra stuff, and, if so, does it work. The SE for this d.v.d. is not available on R2.
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So, we are all going to see Joe Dante's Hole. Ooh, er, missus; titter ye not; nay nay, and thrice nay!
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Does anyone think that the reason that RTD is bringing back so many characters, is so that Tennant can have a regeneration scene not unlike Peter ("feels different, this time") Davison's (with Tegan, Nyssa, Adbloodyric, Chameleon, and even The master doing his "Die, Doctor, die!" routine?). I take people's point about thsese three being fillers. Apart from the "Death knocking four times" stuff, there does not seem to be much linking these with what is yet to come. The new clip of WOM looks good, but so did the trailer fof Episode I... The romours regarding The 11 Doctors seem to have dried up for now, unless anyone else knows better?
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Let There Be Light,
Waking Up,
Turning Back The World,
Look Down, Lord,
and Everybody Runs, are all on my current playlist.
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With so much anticipation, Williams is sure to fail (in the eyes of most MB members). I just think back and laugh when I remember the lukewarm reception each Williams Potter score got. The irony is that this score will be called a failure because it gets the same collective "meh" from Williams addicts as those other scores did, but it will be claimed that they did not live up to the glory of the original "classics".
More groupthink, huh? I hate that as well.
These are sad comments, but even if DH gets a "collective 'meh' " from fans, it won't stop them from buying the c.d. of it at 9 o'clock on the day of its release! Even if it is not as "good" (whatever that means) as his earlier stuff, J.W. is still composing quality music, and fans of film music deserve to hear it. On a personal note, I think that, along with Minority Report, POA represents some of JW's best work EVER, and, at the very least, is his best score since J.F.K. If there is a problem, it is that he has got himself into a bit of a rut. This is not his fault. As the process of making films has changed, along with audiences' expectations of what makes a good film-not to mention things like demographics, focus groups, test screenings, etc.-the "art" of film making becomes diluted, and emasculated to the point where any "movie" that doesn't conform to the Michael Bay School Of Film Making (complete with music by Steve Zimmer) is branded a failure. This has been reflected in four of the films scored by JW recently, namely Eps. I-III, and KOTCS. Times change, and, film making changes, and, like it of not, JW is obliged to compose what the director wants for his/her film. It's either that, or get someone else. If DH is a "meh", it will not be the fault of JW. Although I did not like the idea of him not scoring Superman II, I admire him for being honest enough to say that he could not work with its (replacement) director. This decision was, I'm sure, a sad one for JW, and deprived The World of a potentially brilliant piece of work, which could have surpassed its predecessor, as EMP did SW. If anyone wants a ready answer to the question: "will DH be meh?" they have to look to themselves and begin to question the way that they gladly gobble up some of the detritus that is served up to them week after week. Only then will the precess of making films change, and only then will the audience go from being a second-class one, to a first-class one, and get the films, and the film music that it deserves.
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Star Wars, it is not! To put it into context, it is the "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway", or even the "Tales From Topographic Oceans" of John Williams.
Or Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother!
Or Jerry Goldsmith's Planet Of The Apes!
Or Vangelis' Beaubourg!
Alex
I see where you are coming from, Alex. To me, Beaubourg is noise, Atom Heart Mother has some nice stuff on it, Seamus, and Pillow Of Winds, for example...or is that Meddle? Whoops! Mind you, Mind Your Throats, Please takes some getting used to! Now it just so happens that POTA is one of my all-time favourite Goldsmith scores, With The Hunt, The Search (or, if you prefer, The Search Continues), and No Escape, being some of the very best music he has ever composed. I guess we should be grateful for Images not being the Calling All Stations, or Tormato or The Final Cut of J.W., eh?
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I can't see David Yates willingly giving up Nick Hooper, someonne he has worked for for over 15 years, for someone else, even if it is J.W. After all, Mike Newell didn't do it for GOF. O.k., the film suffered as a result, but Newell stuck to his guns. Lets remember that J.W. has not even scored all of Spielberg's films, and he is probably his oldest colleague, if not friend, in the movie business. Not even J.W can score everything we want him to, even if it is Harry Potter. What could be a viable option would be for JW to compose new themes and for Hooper to weave them into the fabric of the movie(s) as well as original themes a la COS. That would certainly satisfy me. IMO, if JW had to choose between Tintin and DH, I would definitely want him to go with the latter! The series is crying out for a rousing, exhilarating, moving, touching, emotional and just plain BIG finish, and it goes without saying that JW is the man to give it that. I hope that he gets his chance to do so.
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Two films that do not get mentioned much are "The Abyss", and "Dune". The extended cut of "The Abyss" turns it into an almost completely different film. The extended cut of "Dune" is a complete mess. I much prefer the theatrical cut of "Dune", as it, paradoxically, make more sense WITHOUT the extra stuff! Go figure.
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The legit release sounds better then the booteg I own.
I first bought this back in 1979, on vinyl, with a black and white cover. Prometheous has done a brilliant job of translating it to the digital format, noise reduction being one of the c.d.'s many strenghts. As I've said, I love this score, for anyone who has not heard it, please approach this score with caution. Star Wars, it is not! To put it into context, it is the "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway", or even the "Tales From Topographic Oceans" of John Williams. It is not for the casual fan, nor the faint-hearted! It is very, very good music, however, and well worth having. The c.d. notes of Heidi speak of it as being "the jewel in Williams' crown", and they really are not wrong. So, keep an open mind and listen to...no...experience a J.W. score like no other.
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I used to like Horner back in the 80's and 90's, the fact that he reuses the same stuff now these days tends to make him a little dull. He's become a bit of a hack now.
I'm with you, Trent. With the possible exception of "Titanic", I.M.O., Horner's last truely great score was "The Name Of The Rose", in 1986.
P.s., I've just recieved the Intrada "Something Wicked This Way Comes". Apart from being a beautiful score to a beautiful film, the sound quailty is exceptional, and blows my bootleg out of the water. Well worth it.
Offered films JW didn't score
in General Discussion
Posted
It is odd, isn't it? I remember J.W. being attached to a Robert Altman film, in the late 70s, called "Quintet". It goes without saying that Spielberg wanted J.W. to score "Poltergeist", but he had to turn it down because of "E.T." Does anyone know why J.W. did not score "The Color Purple"? I heard a rumour that Walker, the producers, et. al. dug their heals in and wanted Quincy Jones. Does anyone know the full story?