Star Wars is fading away...

[Morn 8]

[Figo 2]

Well, the prequels are not "fun," for starters. Not unless your idea of fun is standing by as a deranged visionary rapes and murders your children.

Lucas may own the Star Wars franchise and, therefore, as you say, he can do with it whatever he sees fit. Be that as it may, it is morally reprehensible to take something that has been ingrained in the public consciousness for over two decades and decide you're going to change it. The changes aren't going to be good, mind you; in fact they are going to degrade what was initially a very good set of movies. And then you are going to tell the understandably less than enthusiastic public to stick it in their collective ear, the originals will no longer be available. Believe it or not, Kevin, there is a point when a piece of art ceases to be the sole property of the artist.

No, I don't think my opinion of TPM or of Lucas himself is likely to improve in the foreseeable future.

[Morn 8]

I disagree Figo, it's only morally wrong to not make the original versions as accessible as the special editions.

[Figo 2]

That's what I'm pissed about. Perhaps I got lost in my own rhetoric? Forgive me, I haven't had anything except pretzels for dinner, and now it's bedtime.

I just want the f***ing originals back, okay? Then he can feel free to f*** up the Star Wars universe as much as he pleases.

[Figo 2]

Wait a minute. Here it is:

And then you are going to tell the understandably less than enthusiastic public to stick it in their collective ear, the originals will no longer be available.

So we're in agreement that Lucas is morally reprehensible. Get off my back!

[tpigeon 3]

i don't know if this is true or not, but i heard a rumor that when they finally release the dvd's for the original trilogy that they will have the new "perfected" Lucas versions, and the original versions as well. that's what i'm hoping for.

[Morn 8]

You seemed to be saying that it's morally wrong to make any changes to the movie, if you hide the old versions or not.

[Figo 2]

My mistake. I'll take it under advisement when I issue the special edition. :evil:

[UCFKevin 0]

Okay, Figo, it's YOUR opinion that the movies aren't fun. That's it. Not a fact. Therefore, I am not wrong in saying that they are fun. You could say, "I completely disagree with you, Kevin," and I would accept that, but to call me wrong for having a certain opinion is pretty ridiculous but then again, this is the Internet, and I should be used to a bullsh!t tactic like that, but somehow, I haven't grown accustomed to it.

Secondly, I sincerely think you're taking this Star Wars/Lucas thing WAAAAY too seriously and too personally. Raping and murdering your children. I don't know what the holy hell you're talking about, but it's clear you're reaching.

I certainly don't agree with Lucas in regards to changing the original trilogy. I hate the special editions. I flat out hate them. I hope to God the originals will be released on DVD, but it probably won't happen, and I've accepted that. It's clear that you haven't.

I hate to make this seem like some kind of flame, it's nothing like that at all, I'm being honest and sincere. If what I'm saying upsets you which I'm sure it will, then I apologize, but again, it's the Internet, that's what tends to happen.

I love TPM and AOTC. Honestly. Wholeheartedly. They are not perfect. They are VERY far from perfect. But you know why I love them? Because I wasn't expecting perfection. I wasn't expecting anything better than the original trilogy. I knew that wouldn't be possible. I just took them for what they are. Solid B movies, sci fi movies, and, IN MY OPINION, fun movies. I get a huge kick out of them. They make me smile, they kinda make me feel a bit like a kid again. If you think he's raping your childhood, that's your own damn problem. I'll be the first in line for Episode III, with millions of people behind me.

[tpigeon 3]

I love TPM and AOTC. Honestly. Wholeheartedly. They are not perfect. They are VERY far from perfect. But you know why I love them? Because I wasn't expecting perfection. I wasn't expecting anything better than the original trilogy. I knew that wouldn't be possible. I just took them for what they are. Solid B movies, sci fi movies, and, IN MY OPINION, fun movies. I get a huge kick out of them. They make me smile, they kinda make me feel a bit like a kid again. If you think he's raping your childhood, that's your own damn problem. I'll be the first in line for Episode III, with millions of people behind me.

very well said! i agree.

[Figo 2]

Sorry for overstating my opinion. Everyone here does it, but for some reason I am always the one to take the fall.

The movies are not "fun," and I am sure I can muster as much support for my viewpoint as you can for yours, probably more, if we extend our survey to the wider world. Or does my opinion count for less than yours?

This is a message board, for chrissake, and I expect to be able to spout off when I please, within reasonable limits. I was being honest and sincere, just as you are, so why are you getting your balls twisted? Who's taking things much too seriously now? Sheesh, some people are so sensitive as soon as you bring a little rape and murder into the argument.

But wait a minute! You criticize my "bullshit tactic," then turn around and tell me to get over it, it's the internet? YOU'RE USING THE SAME BULLSHIT TACTIC. Kevin, you and I are not completely unalike. We both think Lucas is an enormous dickweed for withholding the original cuts. Also, despite your attempts to blackball my character by manufacturing certain aspects of my psychology, I can tell you now, in front of man, boy and God (and Mari and Ren), that I did not have high expectations for the prequels. Indeed, the very fact that TPM failed to entertain me even on the most rudimentary level was all the more sad for this reason. How can you moan at me for saying you're wrong, when you turn around and tell me what's going on inside of my own head?

It's too bad you turned out to be such an asshole, Kevin. I actually kind of liked the Superman page.

[UCFKevin 0]

I don't recall ever telling you what's going on in your own head. I think you're just trying to add fuel to the fire and keep this argument going by coming up with more stuff for me to get get my balls all twisted up, which, by the way, I didn't even know happened to begin with, but if you think I'm taking this so damn seriously, go right ahead and think that.

I am not using the same bullshit tactic, by the way, if anything, it's a completely different bullshit tactic. Yours consisted of "You're wrong, I'm right, it's a fact." Mine consisted of, "This is the Internet, shit happens." Different idealisms.

And are you saying that TPM failed to entertain you because you had no expectations for it? Is that somehow the movie's fault?

I've always been an asshole, by the way, I'm just very selective on when I decide to let that side of me out, and congrats, Figo, you were the trigger. By the way, you're basically the pot calling the kettle black. And for future reference, most people ARE just a little sensitive to rape or murder being used jokingly, especially if they have someone in their life who has been through anything like that. Keep that in mind.

[Morn 8]

Okay, Figo, it's YOUR opinion that the movies aren't fun. That's it. Not a fact.

It seems to be most people's opinion.

I love TPM and AOTC. Honestly. Wholeheartedly. They are not perfect. They are VERY far from perfect. But you know why I love them? Because I wasn't expecting perfection. I wasn't expecting anything better than the original trilogy.

I didn't have any expectations. I found them to be not that much fun.

[Figo 2]

You told me I had high expectations going into the prequels. Is that not telling me what is going on in my own head? Pardon me if I don't exactly bow down and take your bullshit , but in case you haven't noticed, Kev, it's not exactly my style.

So, if you're not taking it so damn seriously, why do you keep replying? You're so eager to start typing, you don't even absorb what it is I am saying. How could I be disappointed because my expectations were so low? The point is, I was disappointed despite my expectations being so low. Word choice is such a bitch, isn't it? After all, that's what you're all over me about. I disagree... It is my opinion... Well, excuse me for not mistaking this for the editorial page!

Good luck getting your balls untangled. I'm going to bed. If you still need your ass kicked, I can do it tomorrow.

Oh yeah, about your personal "tragedy" -- if that is what I am supposed to infer -- you pretty much cut yourself off any kind of sympathetic response with your attitude, chum. Seems to me like you DO take things WAY too seriously.

[Figo 2]

It's funny, I went back and read my initial post, and this did not begin as a personal attack.

[Figo 2]

Revisiting this exchange the next morning, I understand that what I had described as wrong was not so much the "fun" factor, which is wholly subjective, but the morality of Lucas' alterations and his insistence on withholding the originals -- which, of course, was made crystal clear in my posts to Morn, well before Kev's over-the-top "retribution." Perhaps there should be some sort of saftey installed, requiring participants to read each post before responding?

Figo, on his second cup of coffee and regaining his famed "objectivity." :evil:

[AHerrera83 0]

Okay, Figo, it's YOUR opinion that the movies aren't fun. That's it. Not a fact.

It seems to be most people's opinion.

Well sure, Morn, a lot of people have that opinion, but many are just, IMO, jumping on the bandwagon. Right now it's cool to put the prequels down. It's just like what happened with JarJar three years ago. Sure, the character is annoying at times, just like 3PO has ALWAYS been annoying; but the extreme to which it was taken was ridiculous.

The prequels are fun; TPM may have more flaws than the rest, but AotC is a better film than ROTJ.

Now, as for the Special Editions, I have no qualm with Lucas fiddling all he wants with them, but I agree wholeheartedly that he should rerelease the untouched originals on DVD. I'd allow him only one change: that scene in SW when Luke's landspeeder arrives at Mos Eisley, that effect really sucked.

Alas, Lucas still insists that this won't happen, but then again, the Disney Studios insisted that they'd never release Snow White on video up to the very end.

[Figo 2]

The prequels are fun; TPM may have more flaws than the rest, but AotC is a better film than ROTJ.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

ROTJ at least had all the elements that made the first two films successful -- except a weaker story, a flabby script, and poor direction. At least it had the semblence of a story arc. The new films just go on and on and on, until they just decide to end. Also, Jedi -- much criticized, even by me, for its lack of originality -- at least had inspired touches, especially Jabba the Hutt. But, with Lucas' "retooling," even the freshness will have gone out of that by the time he's finished. We now see Jabba in the TPM and in a very, very weak scene in the Star Wars special edition. For all its faults, Jedi provided continuity of character and feel. The score is the weakest of the original trilogy, but it still sounds like Star Wars. The stress marks were already starting to show. Don't you think that would have been a sign to stop, instead of going full-speed ahead with three more films?

As I say, though, Lucas can do what he wants with subsequent (or "preceding" ) installments. We're pretty much all in agreement -- even petulant Kev -- that the originals should be made available.

[Morn 8]

except a weaker story

Hmm, maybe. I'd rather say that Empire and Jedi have a more consistant and flowing story, not that the Jedi story is weaker.

a flabby script, and poor direction.

Why?

The score is the weakest of the original trilogy, but it still sounds like Star Wars.

:wow:

The score is utter brilliance, and close to perfection ANH is the weakest score of the original trilogy.

[UCFKevin 0]

Figo, you really need to get over yourself. For some odd reason, you seem to think you're some kind of bad ass who can do no wrong.

I didn't say anything about rape or murder being associated in my life, but I'm certain that there are some here that have experienced it in one way or the other, so have some tact. But hey, just because it hasn't happened to you or anyone you care about, who cares, right? Joke away!

My balls weren't twisted to begin with, but if you feel it necessary to "kick my ass", go right ahead, I'm rather interested to see how you'll accomplish that, Mr. Tough Guy.

And this DID begin as a personal attack when you called me an asshole. We were having an intelligent conversation without bringing insults or condescending remarks, at least I thought so, but you had to lower it by bringing in the asshole line.

Personally, I think this whole argument is absolutely ridiculous and this is the last I'll write about it. If there's anything further you wish to say to me, email me at UCFKevin@aol.com. There's no reason to tarnish this message board with our petty, pointless fight.

[Trumpeteer 302]

Sorry for overstating my opinion.  Everyone here does it, but for some reason I am always the one to take the fall.

To quote John Travolta in "Pulp Fiction": "That's a bold statement.

:?

[Figo 2]

Well, actually, if you want to nitpick, it was your whole "bullshit" flame that started it, Mr. Get-over-yourself/Can-do-no-wrong. Yeah, okay, so no one in your life was raped or murdered. Sheesh. Talk about taking the high road. I don't hear anyone else complaining, so naturally you, who have never actually experienced such a tragedy for yourself, but are so acutely sensitive to the feelings of others, had to take it upon yourself to break a lance for Dulcinea.

I realize I am an easy target here, because my posts are frequently edgy and they sometimes piss people off, but I'll allow this particular exchange to stand for itself. I know what I meant, I know when the exchange truned sour, so don't try and rewrite history. I attacked no one except George Lucas. If that is a capital offense, you're going to have to find yourself an awfully large firing squad, because I'm going to have a lot of company. You just didn't care for my opinion, or the derisive manner in which I presented it. As if my complaining is going to threaten your precious prequels. :roll:

As for kicking your ass, I was speaking metaphorically, of course. I was very tired last night and knew that I would be more up to the task of an argument today. But, you're right, it would hardly be worthwhile. If it's not going to happen here, I'm hardly going to do it in private, via email. I think I contribute a lot to this board, Kev. If you look hard enough, you'll even find one or two intelligent posts. What's more important, I think I breathe a little life into the proceedings, as opposed to sucking the life out of them, as you have, at least on the basis of your responses here. I come bearing the gifts of controversy and laughter. I'm sorry to see you are too righteous to accept them in the spirit they are offered. That, to me, is the true definition of an asshole.

Glad we're through with this, then. Can't say that it's been a pleasure talking to you.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Who really cares anymore???

Look folks I am still waiting for the "NEXT STAR WARS". By that I mean the sci-fi series that will REPLACE Star Wars as the NEXT big thing.

I think it will come sooner rather than later now that SW has hit rock bottom.

Look folks SW is in 2002 what Planet of the Apes became in 1977. You remember that series don't you? Before Star Wars that was THE big sci-fi series. However, in 1977 it was what SW is now. A tired series well past its prime just WAITING for something new and original to come along and put it to rest. Finally stopping the further degradation of the series by more lame sequels (or in this case prequels).

Bottom line is there are alot of up and comin filmakers with alot more vision than Lucas and even more than Spielberg has left at this point. We gotta look to them to bring the "Next Big Thing" to theaters.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Oh yeah and when that next big sci-fi series arrives, you know damn well who should be scoring it!!!!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

ANH is the weakest score of the original trilogy.

:wow:

Morn, I know you meant to say that Star Wars is the best score of the original trilogy. It is a great score better than empire or jedi, or tpm and definetly better than aotc.

With out Star Wars there is none of the others. Period.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

IMO ROTJ is the weakest score of the OT.

With ESB the best and ANH in second place.

All three of these scores dance circles around the score for AOTC IMO.

[Figo 2]

I notice how careful everyone has been to add "IMHO" to their posts lately. LOL

[UCFKevin 0]

Rogue, do you think there will be another saga like Star Wars? I GUESS that Lord of the Rings could potentially be it, for some people anyway, but not me. I just can't get into those movies at all.

I think SW will stand alone. Things could get close but nothing, in my mind, will ever be the next Star Wars. Of course, that could change, but it's unlikely.

(For the record, I think ANH is the weaker score of the OT, but that doesn't make it bad, they're all excellent and head and shoulders above everything else)

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Yes I do. Look its not impossible. All it requires is one truly awesome first film to get things going. Now admittedly thats no easy task but I believe it can and WILL be done. Maybe not in the near future but it will happen I am certain.

[UCFKevin 0]

Well, it's good to hope, at least.

Hell, maybe one of us will write it.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Lets hope not!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Hey Figo, Indysolo, everyone keeps saying that ANH is the weaker or weakest score.

I don't know what score they are talking about. Did they make another Star Wars that I don't know about.

As for Lord of the Rings being the next Star Wars. Don't think so.

There is some geek in me, but not the much geek in me to want to follow that soulless film series.

Joe, who on Aug 6th went right out and bought the DVD of LOTR/FOTR

AS IF LOL LOL LOL

[Figo 2]

I'm mum on this thread, friend. Those of us in the know understand the merits of the original. And I'm with you on the whole ANH/Lord of the Rings business.

But you already know that.

Figo, speaking very softly, lest he oh-ffend.

[UCFKevin 0]

Wait a second, you guys found FOTR to be soulless, too? Jesus Christ, I thought I was alone...

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I could care less about the LOTR series. Thats not SW by any means.

[UCFKevin 0]

Well, no, but I don't think they're trying to be like Star Wars.

Well, maybe a little.

I was just bored out of my mind through out the flick, WAY too much walking. Plus it was a bit loud. Especially those cloaked things on the horses. Things don't have to be SCREECHING LOUD to be scary. Ughgh...

[Figo 2]

Things don't have to be SCREECHING LOUD to be scary.

Another view we hold in common. :cry:

[UCFKevin 0]

Is that a bad thing or is the face there because of the pain it caused to your eardrums?

[Figo 2]

It's just sad. So many... missed... opportunities. bawling

You and I could have been such good frieeeeeeeends. bawling bawling bawling

[Trumpeteer 302]

Well, no, but I don't think they're trying to be like Star Wars.  

Well, maybe a little..

Actually, "Star Wars" is trying to be like "Lord of the Rings," at least in the way it is presented in books. Lucas , critics and historians have pointed that out.

I think with the movies, they're just trying to give us a visual representation of the books. Not much more.

[UCFKevin 0]

Figo, there's always tomorrow, man! Chin up! C'mon! What if I call you The Carpathian? Will that help things?

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Someone needs to bring in the fresh new blood. The "old school" filmakers are rapidly running out of steam.

[Figo 2]

What if I call you The Carpathian?

LOL

I like the sound of that!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Someone needs to bring in the fresh new blood. The "old school" filmakers are rapidly running out of steam.

They are not the problem William, its the new school filmmakers who have no clue how to do it right.

to paraphrase Professor Snape,

STYLE ISN'T EVERYTHING!

Example Quinton Tarantino has loads of style, but his scriptwriting if filled with so many profanities that it becomes a parody of itself. But his blocking techniques and framing devices are all b-movieish. Those things are correctable, but he doesn't seem to care.

The makers of Blair Witch, do I even need to go on.

Bruckheimer and Bay. 2.4 second editing. MTV generation for the patience challenged individuals.

the makers of Something About Mary, are more concerned with a gross out joke than something like maybe a decent script.

Joe, who say that there will be an American Pie 3. banghead

[UCFKevin 0]

Well, of course, it starts filming next spring, I believe, if not sooner.

Anyhow, I think Shyamalan, Fincher and Soderbergh are going to save film, one way or the other. I love all of their work. They don't really dumb down anything, although M. Night COULD be accused of that, and it probably wouldn't be untrue, but they're all greatly talented.

Personally, I really like Bay's movies, but they're guilty pleasures.

[Figo 2]

I thought Tarantino's films were supposed to be b-movieish. He worships trash, don't you know? He loves blaxploitation and kung-fu and cheesy old horror movies. Who doesn't? And I think the profanity-laden dialogue is supposed to be self-parodic. But I may be mistaken about that.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. He seems to have blown his load on Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. He's more interested in acting and Mira Sorvino, last I heard, than he is in directing. That's what a really big hit will do.

[UCFKevin 0]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure his stuff is SUPPOSED to be B movies. And there's not a thing wrong with that.

I haven't seen Jackie Brown since it was in theaters, but i remember loving it, and will buy it tomorrow on DVD.

[Lurker 5]

Tarantino's appeal intially was that he took these B movie formulas and characters and got name talent involved and it made a sensation. It's not the first time it's been done. Remember little films called Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark? They are also B films elevated to an A level.

Neil

[Figo 2]

Exactly what I said when I first saw Pulp Fiction. Even made the Star Wars and Raiders comparisons. Eerie.

[Lurker 5]

Hey Figo, Indysolo, everyone keeps saying that ANH is the weaker or weakest score.

I've never heard of John Williams writing a score for a film called "A New Hope". I'll be sure to stay away from it. Who needs it anyway, when I have absolute masterpieces, such as the score to the original 1977 film, Star Wars.

Neil