'Hoe Down'- JW and the BPO

[Morlock 11]

I got this track (Along with many other BPO tracks) a couple of years ago, and I always remembered it as being in An American Tale: Fievel Goes West. I just got the Fievel soundtrack, and sure enough, there's something extremely similar, nearly identical there in track 12 'In Training'.

However, it ain't quite that. So it's probably some famous track I don't know which Horner copied.

Anyone know exactly where this music is from or what it was written for?

[Mari 279]

"Hoe-down" is part of the Aaron Copland ballet Rodeo.

Kathy

[Morlock 11]

Thanx a lot!

Morlock- who knows very little Copland

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I hate any Hoe-down.

[Morlock 11]

This one has a marvelous theme. As good as practicaly any Western Theme I've heard.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not overly fond of western music either.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Horner one...yes, don't care for it.

Copland....don't get me started.

[Morlock 11]

I don't know if I'm overly fond, but I do enjoy a good Western Theme. The Big Country, Magnificent Seven, The Cowboys, City Slickers, BTTF III, Maverick, The Alamo, the half dozen best Goldsmith ones.

[Lurker 5]

Oh I like Copland. One of the best Sylvester Stallone movies, ever!

Neil

[Morlock 11]

I missed that one myself.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I knew Neil would not miss it.

[Mari 279]

I don't know if I'm overly fond, but I do enjoy a good Western Theme. The Big Country, Magnificent Seven, The Cowboys, City Slickers, BTTF III, Maverick, The Alamo, the half dozen best Goldsmith ones.

Great choices Morlock! I think you would really like The Comancheros(Bernstein) and Silverado (Broughton) as well.

Kathy

[Morlock 11]

Don't really know Bernstein's (heard it once or twice, nothing more), but I'm so far not too big a fan of Broughton's. Don't really like Silverado or Tombstone.

I also love Lonesome Dove and Wyatt Earp too.

[BigKenLittle 6]

You prefer Wyatt Earp to Silverado...

YOU MUST BE MAD!!!!

[Morlock 11]

What can I say, the music just doesn't work for me. But I'm not a Broughton fan yet, I just got my first 3 Broughton CDs. (Miracle on 34th Street, The Rescuers Down Under and a compilation- Double Feature)

I think the Silverado theme is too bouncy, too classicaly Western, that it strikes me as near parody.

[A24 4,333]

'Hoe-down' is from Copland's 'Rodeo', written in 1942. It's pure genius. Almost all symphonic Western scores, except the Italian ones, are in fact odes to Aaron Copland. He simply invented and defined the genre. El Salon México (1936), Billy the Kid (1938) are other fine examples of Copland's music based on traditional American folk songs and dances.

A very good recording (an audiophile's delight) and an equally good performance of these pieces can be found on:

[SeekUYoda 0]

Don't forget, it's the "Beef: It's what's for dinner!" theme.

[Hitch 57]

I have this recording too along with 10 other Copland discs. As for the Hoe-Down reference in Horner's AMT 2: FGW, how about just listening to Johnny's own main titles to THE REIVERS and THE COWBOYS. You can't get any more Americana than that. Yes, you can...with John Adams. Stefan won't like that but who cares?

Speaking of Western music, I just watched Kevin Costner's excellent Western "OPEN RANGE" with Robert Duvall and it has an excellent score by the late Michael Kamen. Does quite well in fact but I felt that John Barry would have been right at home here. Anyone get his expanded DANCES WITH WOLVES cd yet?

Hitch Bernstein's THE SONS OF KATIE ELDER

[Morlock 11]

Yeah, Kamen did a very good job. The finale of that movei is fantastic, one of the best shoot outs ever,

[Figo 2]

I was pleasantly surprised by Open Range. It pushed all the buttons, of course, but it pushed them just right -- unlike Silverado, which should have been subtitled "Western's Greatest Hits." Broughton's score, on the other hand, is one of the best western soundtracks of all time -- right up there with The Magnificent Seven, although perhaps a tad behind The Big Country. Too bad the movie itself didn't try a little harder to find some passion or mythic resonance in the well-worn material.

Copland has never been out of my top-5 composers for the past 20 years.

Figo, who loves a good western (if anyone cares).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Figo admitting to liking Michael Kamen's music?

Hell has frozen over.

[Figo 2]

Uh...................

I'm sorry, I admitted no such thing. I'm not happy he died or anything, but I don't count myself a fan.

I was talking about the FILM. I think perhaps you are too oversexed these days to focus.

The next thing you'll accuse me of is not thinking Bill Conti is whore.

[Figo 2]

Sorry, I must have misread the topic. I thought it was "Ho" down!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think perhaps you are too oversexed these days to focus.

The next thing you'll accuse me of is not thinking Bill Conti is whore.

I thought it was "Ho" down!

Talk about oversexed.

[Figo 2]

That's the problem -- too much talk (with the obvious implication).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's the problem -- too much talk (with the obvious implication).  

Your point being?

[Figo 2]

At least I didn't mislabel the "day jobs" thread.

[A24 4,333]

Let's not forget that Aaron Copland was a great film composer too.

Our Town, Sam Wood, director. (Nomination for best score)

The north Star, Lewis Milestone, director. (Nomination for best score)

The Red Pony, Lewis Milestone, director. (Music for Stage and Screen, John Williams, Boston Pops - A must buy! Forget Elfman's Black Beauty)

The Heiress, William Wyler, director. (Amazing flick!)

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Hitch 57]

Let's not forget that Aaron Copland was a great film composer too.

Our Town, Sam Wood, director. (Nomination for best score)

The north Star, Lewis Milestone, director. (Nomination for best score)

The Red Pony, Lewis Milestone, director. (Music for Stage and Screen, John Williams, Boston Pops - A must buy! Forget Elfman's Black Beauty)

The Heiress, William Wyler, director. (Amazing flick!)

----------------

Alex Cremers

Alex,

Don't forget that Copland was an Academy Award winning composer. Won the Oscar for, as you pointed out an amazing flick and excellent score, to THE HEIRESS. Look at those other 2 American contemporary composers that have been nominated and have won Academy Awards respectively: Philip Glass & John Corigliano. My only wish now that John Adams would join that illustrious duo.

Hitch The Mask of Zorro (The Dance scene) Bootleg

[A24 4,333]

Let's not forget that Aaron Copland was a great film composer too.

Our Town, Sam Wood, director. (Nomination for best score)

The north Star, Lewis Milestone, director. (Nomination for best score)

The Red Pony, Lewis Milestone, director. (Music for Stage and Screen, John Williams, Boston Pops - A must buy! Forget Elfman's Black Beauty)

The Heiress, William Wyler, director. (Amazing flick!)

Don't forget that Copland was an Academy Award winning composer. Won the Oscar for, as you pointed out an amazing flick and excellent score, to THE HEIRESS.

Initially, I was going to get to that, but then I started thinking how amazing this flick is.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Mari 279]

Let's not forget that Aaron Copland was a great film composer too.

Needless to say, I agree completely!

Here is some info on two Copland film music CDs that contain the music Alex and Hitch have already mentioned. In my very humble opinion, these are both essential to anyone interested in the film music of Copland:

Copland Music For Films

Celluloid Copland

Kathy

[A24 4,333]

Here is some info on two Copland film music CDs that contain the music Alex and Hitch have already mentioned. In my very humble opinion, these are both essential to anyone interested in the film music of Copland:

Copland Music For Films

Celluloid Copland

Thanks Mari! I haven't seen them before, but after listening to the clips, I'm ordering them today!

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Morlock 11]

Me and Alex are in agreement, that's unexpected!

Morlock- who hopes to order them within the week

[Figo 2]

Don't forget the soundtrack to Copland's Something Wild, which has finally seen the light of day, thanks to the intrepid folks at Varese (and I so completely kiss their feet). Actually, it's been out for the last year. They've done a magnificent job with the remastering, which is taken from a privately-pressed LP(!) discovered in the director's attic.

So certain was Copland of its imminent commercial release (after all, he was arguably the most important American composer of his era -- and an Academy Award winner, to say nothing of the Pulitzer Prize), he even went ahead and provided his own sleeve notes. That was back in 1961. Over 40 friggin' years ago! So you see, Gabriel Yared and Jerry Goldsmith aren't the only ones who get screwed.

Don't go into it expecting Our Town or The Red Pony -- this can be brutal, jazzy, strident stuff, entirely befitting the film's urban realism. Still, it has its moments of tenderness. If you're a fan of Bernstein's On the Waterfront, I highly recommend it.

http://www.varesesarabande.com/quickfind.asp

[Figo 2]

Apparently, evil Varese doesn't allow a direct link, so once you're on their website, you'll have to do a search under "Something Wild."

[A24 4,333]

Don't forget the soundtrack to Copland's Something Wild

Boy, this is getting expensive!

Listen to some clips over at CD Universe:

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?...811&style=music

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Figo 2]

If you don't go whole-hog and invest in those 3-disc sets of the composer conducting his own music (on Sony, including most of his major orchestral pieces), I suggest you start with the Slatkin program recommended by Mari (linked under "Copland Music for Films"). Slatkin may not dig as deep in his interpretations, but the program as a whole is very fine, and contains, to my knowledge, the only available recording of music from The Heiress, and it's brilliant.

"Celluloid Copland" consists entirely of rarities, exhumed from the Library of Congress, including probably my least favorite (but still worth hearing) The North Star. There's also the score he wrote for a puppet play that was performed at the World's Fair -- From Sorcery to Science!

Sony's Copland bonanza (omitting the volume focusing on the 1920s, since it contains no film music -- unless you count the Dance Symphony, based on episodes from the vampire ballet Grohg, inspired by Nosferatu):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...nce&s=classical

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...nce&s=classical

[Figo 2]

By the way, Music for a Great City, on the latter volume (the one featuring The Red Pony) is actually a reworking of material conceived for Something Wild. The soundtrack may not have been released, but at least the composer got some of the music into the concert hall!

[Mari 279]

Morlock,

Volume II (1936-1948) of the Sony set that Figo mentioned (which I also have) includes Rodeo.

Kathy

[Morlock 11]

Say I've got $30-35 bucks, and don't mind buying it used (off Amazon) what would you recommend in the way of Copland? Beginner stuff, accesible stuff.

[Figo 2]

I recommend the volume Mari mentions, Volume II:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...nce&s=classical

In my opinion, the best Copland starter set you can buy. The composer was at the height of his "populist" period (meaning he was quintessentially Coplandesque ).

You get the three major ballets: Rodeo, Billy the Kid, and Appalachian Spring -- the latter quite possibly the most beautiful music ever written by an American classical composer. You also get film music from Our Town, Of Mice and Men and The City; the Clarinet Concerto with Benny Goodman; the Symphony No. 3 -- the last movement of which is based on the Fanfare for the Common Man (also included, in its original guise) -- the ultimate load-blowing American symphony; and Henry Fonda reciting A Lincoln Portrait. The set is an ideal mix of cowboy tunes, pastoral sweetness, and sabre-rattling jingoism. Go for it!

[Mari 279]

My first introduction to Copland was through his ballets (Billy The Kid, Appalachian Spring and Rodeo) which I think are highly accessible and Volume II of the Sony set was my first Copland purchase. There are 3 discs included so you do get quite a bit of music for the money. The set also contains the very popular Fanfare for the Common Man that he later incorporated into the Symphony No. 3 which is also included. After that I was hooked and started grabbing up all the others I could find. (You know how that goes! ) If you are more interested in film music though, I'd start with the Slatkin.

I hope this helps!

Kathy

[Figo 2]

But then he won't get the "Hoe-down."

[Figo 2]

Allow me to clarify: The "Hoe-down," which concludes Rodeo, IS included in Volume II of Sony's Copland Edition; it is not in the Slatkin film music set.

Figo, sorry for the confusion, but he just had to include one of those little devil-heads.

[Mari 279]

:micro:

Kathy, who has always wanted to use this emoticon

[Figo 2]

Me too! LOL

It is kind of gross, though.

Figo, lacking intestinal fortitude.

[A24 4,333]

Somehow this conversation went from discussing great albums to the cheapest way to get as much music possible. The problem is that, in most cases, those budget discs don't have much of a personality and they will most likely lack the character to become a fully-fledged asset in your CD collection. Of course, it's undeniable that they offer much music, but I usually have the feeling that the deal you get with them is quantity over quality. I bought one a few years ago (Copland, double FForte, EMI) and I never bothered to listen to it more than ... twice. Rest assured, they always include a few selections inferior to the rest of program. It's a convenient way for music labels to make a buck on questionable material that otherwise wouldn't stand a chance if it were standing on its own feet. Sometimes that material exists of old recordings (even going all the way back to the Sixties), and in other instances they throw in a couple of titles with disputable quality, especially regarding to their performance. Either way, you'll end up with an album that is not a very attractive jewel to behold. It is a constant reminder that you didn't buy the genuine article. It's a bit like buying 'Echos, The Best of Pink Floyd' instead of 'Dark Side of the Moon'. It's buying the 'Indiana Jones trilogy' soundtrack, while instead you could've gone for 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'. When all things are said and done, you'll value the latter indefinitely more.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Morlock 11]

Well, I'm not looking to start a collection. I'm looking for a variety, to see if I could get into Copland. As long as the performances aren't bad, I'm fine with it. If I like them, I'll get the better recordings. That's exaclty how I started my Williams collection.

And (although I'd hate to do anything to inflate your ego further ) I am admitedly not the audiofile you are. I honestly can't tell too much of a difference between varying sound qualities and technical stuff, and I like a couple of the Silva Williams tracks better than the originals, so that tells you where I am :roll:

[SeekUYoda 0]

the Clarinet Concerto with Benny Goodman......

and Henry Fonda reciting A Lincoln Portrait

The first half of the Clarinet Concerto deserves a place with the most beautiful sounds of all time - like the Largo from Dvorak 9 ("Going Home"), Binary Sunset, etc. Sublime!

And Lincoln Portrait is.... well, remarkable. It's kind of weird on a CD, but done live it'll give you goosebumps. It's not the most enjoyable piece, but it is a very important (and often overlooked) bit of Copland.

[Figo 2]

Agreed, SUY, about the Clarinet Concerto. Heartmelting stuff. "A Lincoln Portrait" is a true crowd-pleaser. Oddly, on disc, I think Henry Fonda sounds a mite underpowered, although apparently it was the composer's intention that the text be read simply (as Fonda does), almost matter-of-factly, that the words just speak for themselves. Fonda, remember had previous experience in the role, having played Young Mister Lincoln, in the John Frod classic. I have many recordings in my collection. James Earl Jones is great (with Schwarz and the Seattle Sym., on Delos) -- too bad he's mixed so loudly. He overpowers the orchestra! Katherine Hepburn -- surprisingly, given her advanced age -- delivers a stirring rendition for Kunzel and the Cincinnati Pops, on Telarc. It's a great disc, and I say that as someone who hates Kunzel!

Alexcremers, what you say is often applicable, but in this instance, you couldn't be more off the mark. Volume II of The Copland Collection is one of my most-valued Copland discs. Every single performance bears the authoritative stamp of the composer, and the recordings all date from the late '60s through the mid '70s. They certainly sound no worse than the Williams soundtracks remastered from that era. In fact, I would say they sound a good deal better. Let me put it this way -- would you prefer Williams conducted by Williams, or Williams conducted by Nic Raine? Well, this is Copland conducting Copland. There may have been more polished interpreters (eg., Leonard Bernstein), but the composer certainly has nothing to be ashamed of. Morlock has my personal guarantee that he will enjoy every last piece in this collection.

Sometimes, Alexcremers, a bargain really is a bargain. The trick is to educate yourself as to the difference, and to avoid conductors like Slatkin and Mata (the latter particularly disappointing in this repertoire), when the real deal is readily available.

If you become fanatical Morlock, do buy Leonard Bernstein's recordings -- and go for the earlier ones, on Sony, as opposed to the DG remakes. Alexcremers won't understand this, since apparently he's more interested in digital sound than performance quality, but Lenny's '60s Copland cuts a rug as other conductors can only dream