Juxtaposed Secundal Dyads and Other Williamsims

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

What do you call it when you see, say B6-C#7 and Bb5-C6 in 1st and 2nd Violins respectively, E5-F#5 in Violas, F4-G4 in Cellos, and Db3-Eb3 in basses? It's common sonority in Williams's work, though it's usually accompanied by thirds and fourths, not just major seconds. The example I just gave you is from quite early in his film career - IMAGES.

What or who is 20th Century origin of such a harmonic device? Does it come from serial aggregates, or the sound masses of Berio and Stockhausen? Some insight would be appreciated.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'd just classify it as two clusters - one made by the violins, the other by the violas, celli, and basses - voiced over multiple octaves. No more wieldy term comes to mind to describe it, though there may very well be one. Actually, multi-octave juxtapositioning of secundal dyads has a nice ring to it.

I'm reminded a bit of the opening sonority of Ligeti's Atmospheres, with each player on a different note of the 12 note scale over I think 5 octaves. The same principle could apply here, but with a different collection than the chromatic scale. There's no such juxtapositioning there though, just one clotted mass.

You do often see Williams using a chromatic collection like this in an atonal context, but in voicings that de-emphasize much of the dissonant crunch. I think that's a key element of how he manages to write so densely without becoming incomprehensible.

I'm looking through my Persichetti right now because I know he talks about something similar. The "softening" of dissonant structures through wide voicings.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Interesting, thanks. After a Google search, I've found a reference to a similar kind of structure in Robert Simpson's 7th Symphony (1977). Not familiar with the composer - must check out the rest of his work.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Here's something I just found about Ives that seems to apply.

http://books.google.com/books?id=vdaXlAeWjJgC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=voicing+of+clusters+in+music&source=bl&ots=DR5k-ygOV4&sig=TIpV8UsmVIJ4BhbKkQNtKNZ4Ye0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jSnfUpbOFvPKsATX8oC4Ag&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=voicing%20of%20clusters%20in%20music&f=false

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Open cluster - that's it! Great. So much simpler to say.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'm pretty sure I've seen it in some of Jerry's earlier scores too.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The Main Title from Rosenman's BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES relies on them a lot, though the orchestration emphasises their dissonant crunch.

[InTheCity 140]

Hey I think you are over thinking this a bit. Find a cluster on the keyboard you like - if it sounds good write it down for the strings to play. That is the end of it.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Hey I think you are over thinking this a bit. Find a cluster on the keyboard you like - if it sounds good write it down for the strings to play. That is the end of it.

Sure, but this isn't your regular cluster (i.e. C-C#-D-D#-E) - it's voiced in octaves in major seconds. Quite unusual.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

While I'm all for not making the compositional process seem more convoluted or clinical than it is, there is a bit more to it than that....

[InTheCity 140]

There really isn't - its a chromatic cluster and for divisi tuning reasons he has the sections playing in M2nds instead of m2nds. A major second is easier to tune in section than a minor 2nd. Its a courtesy to the players and that is all.

Things are a lot simpler than they appear from the outside.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Oh?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

There really isn't - its a chromatic cluster and for divisi tuning reasons he has the sections playing in M2nds instead of m2nds. A major second is easier to tune in section than a minor 2nd. Its a courtesy to the players and that is all.

Um, it's also spaced across 5 octaves. None of the major second dyads are adjacent.

I think you've misread the pitches in the opening post.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You might also opt to have certain sections playing certain components towards a certain acoustic end, depending on string seatings and things like that. The ranges of the instruments and what will make the sonority ideally balanced or unbalanced factor in.

Besides, we're talking about the compositional end of it, not the practical one that comes into play on the scoring stage. Things aren't as simple as they appear from the outside.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

To clear things up, here's the original chord. Bar 1, top left. Corresponds to 'Nightwatch Rise' on the CD.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

Interesting, thanks. After a Google search, I've found a reference to a similar kind of structure in Robert Simpson's 7th Symphony (1977). Not familiar with the composer - must check out the rest of his work.

I'd recommend the 9th most of all. It has one of the most energetic and sustained build-ups towards a (central) climax I've ever heard. The CD recording comes with a non-technical talk by Simpson on the symphony's structure.

The disc with the 2nd an 4th symphonies is probably my second favourite. I think I remember Simpson saying that, with the 4th, he was trying to recapture the sort of lively vigour found in classical symphonies but which he felt had been lost in later ones. The 2nd is memorable for having an almost perfectly palindromic middle movement!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Ludwig, could you share your thoughts on this phenomenon in the music of Williams and Goldsmith? Do you agree with Timothy A. Johnson's term 'Open Clusters' or do you think a set theory explanation would fit better?

[Ludwig 1,120]

I would say the aptness of the term depends on the context. Open cluster is a great shorthand to describe the phenomenon as sound, but if it's linked with other statements of the same or similar collections of notes (as we've seen in Williams), I would let the set theory label take the lead.

For example, you could always describe the texture as an open cluster regardless of how it fits into the context, but sets show us more about the similarities between different chords. So while a passage may be rife with open clusters, but they may be different sets. Or the same set may be consistently spaced as an open cluster. I always prefer terminology that allows us to describe the music more precisely.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Interestingly enough, Frank Lehman mentions this recurring chord complex in his post Williams's Sinfionetta for Winds and Percussion.

The Sinfonietta's slow second movement is a procession of sorts, with quiet and steady pulse from timpani and pitched percussion undergirding its duration. The first 24 measures feature a dissonant conversation between three oboes, with (once again extremely loose) fugal introductions for all three. This yields to a lushly scored chord constructed mostly out of sus2 dyads, a jazz-cum-Ligeti sonority of the sort Williams would later claim was inspired by the ensemble scoring of jazz great Claude Thornhill.

http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/innocuous-as-film-score-williams.html