Mattris

What women in the last 7 movies have depicted women as flawed? Did you forget that the leader of the Rebellion (Mon Mothma) was a women? The characters of Queen/Senator Padme Amidala and Princess/Senator/General Leia Organa are universally praised. Have you come across anyone who had a problem with those smart, strong, in-charge female characters of Star Wars? I haven't. My issue the the women in TLJ is that all of them are strong to the detriment of the men. Rose controlled (literal along-for-the-ride) Finn at every turn... and even prevented him from making the ultimate sacrifice. Out-of-nowhere Holdo denied (demoted) Poe's plan inquiries and requests to help. Rey seemed to shrug off (pathetic) Luke Skywalker's advice and just left him as abruptly as she arrived. 'Commander' Hux was played as comic relief. Seemingly invincible Supreme Leader Snoke got cut in half by his apprentice with a Force trick. DeeJay turned out to be a back-stabbing opportunist. Kylo needed Rey's help to defeat the Pretorian Guardsmen... and then asked her to join him after she asked him to come back to the Light. And after thinking that his former master would allow himself to be defeated by laser fire, Kylo was utterly humiliated in front of his army... and failed to defeat a few dozen Resistance fighters that were all but weaponless. That's what wrong with the depiction of men and women in TLJ.

Weren't you being objectively sarcastic? Care to dispute my response, specifically that TLJ was a deliberate insult to the majority of the fans' not being "the most ridiculous thing" I've said in this thread? While your at it, have a go at disputing the other points I made. Why do you keep saying that I think your opinions are wrong? By definition, they cannot be. Why did you like Luke tossing his lightsaber in the way that he did? I didn't "chose to see an agenda" in the film. It clearly had them in spades. One of them: Women are strong and/or in charge; men are flawed. The prominence of this theme means that it was not an accident or coincidence... or that I had to search deep to discover it. Questions I already asked: - What was the point of The Last Jedi as the second film in this trilogy? Specifically address Rey’s purpose and character arc. - If Episode 9 doesn't even make one billion dollars worldwide, what will be your explanation? - I'm sure Disney's high-ups and shareholders would like the films to entertain and please the vast majority of fans and the general public. Given the company's vast capabilities and deep pockets, there is no reason the films couldn't do this. But clearly, they are not doing it. Why do you think that is?

No, a SW film does not need a lightsaber battle to be good. Rogue One didn't have one, and I like that film... much more so after reading its novelization and prequel novel. I call TLJ "lazy" because most of the film is a slow space chase, Rey's character advancing little to none, and Luke not leaving the island. Really, what was the point of it all? To portray failure? The film itself was an epic fail. My last post contained new points... and new ways to explain repeated ones. I also posed some questions. Care to answer them? Which main characters in TLJ do not do objectively stupid things on a regular basis? I'm supposed to empathize with characters when all of them are routinely doing dumb things throughout the entire film? 'Dumb characters and events' Star Wars is not for me. I detected an agenda and distanced myself. I prefer elements like friendship, teamwork, bonding, romance, strife, pay-off, and cliffhanger moments... those found in every other Star Wars movie. Moments that don't involve Jedi Master Luke Skywalker comically tossing his original lightsaber over his back... over a cliff... without saying a word to the person who offered it to him. Sorry if I feel that this film was just too on-the-nose stupid to appreciate. Don't blame JJ Abrams for Rian Johnson's inadequacies. Stop his film dead to provide an explanation? Explaining Rey's powers would have been as easy as "When Kylo looked inside my mind, I was able to see inside his... and I learned what he knows." Which, as TFA novelization explains, is exactly what happened. What we got in TLJ was, "We have to stop Kylo Ren because he is strong in the Dark Side of the force." See why I have a problem? ... you can't really expect a filmmaker to spend a significant chunk of his movie retconning another filmmaker's missteps. All accounts suggest that JJ Abrams was highly disappointed in Johnson's sequel... so much so that he took the job to write and direct Episode 9 after he said he was done with this trilogy. I don't expect him to retcon Johnson's missteps. I expect him to ignore them almost completely. A film can be bold, impressive, and appreciated. No need to praise TLJ just because it was 'different'. Yes, we understood that "Luke was going to be desperate and that he will have turned his back to the struggle." But many predicted that Luke had secluded himself because he felt that he could not "take on the entire First Order with just a laser sword" and needed someone to inspire and compliment him... and eventually take over for him... perhaps someone uncommonly strong with the Force... Kylo's equal in the Light. Perhaps it is this person who has presented him with his old lightsaber? But no. We just got a grumpy, defeatist Jedi Master who decided to seclude himself forever... and only came to the rescue in 'projection' form, killing himself in the process. (Of course this is extra-frustrating because he may not have had to do this at all. "Why did you do that, Rose?!" The "concept of the sequel trilogy" sucks: Lackluster new characters while utterly destroying the old ones. I have "come to terms with" what Kennedy & Co. have done and will be "ignoring them altogether" when thinking of the Star Wars I love. Johnson crafted his story knowing that it would 'subvert expectations'. This makes what he did deliberate. Did he know that most Star Wars fans probably wouldn't like the characters' stupid decisions, lack of story progression, on-the-nose social agenda, and a shadow of Luke Skywalker who faded away without a fight? Of course he did. He even called the fans "manbabies" when they complained about these very things. Insulting. By definition, this makes the film a deliberate insult to the majority of the fans. Oh, I'm not entitled... but regarding my money, neither is Disney/Lucasfilm. Whoops! 'The customer is always right' rings true in a free-market capitalistic society. Star Wars is entertainment - not food or shelter. Make a product that people want... or go out of business. That's it. Fans' expectations mean something. Deliberately subverting expectations will do the film-makers absolutely no good in the long run. The "fucking joke" is that Lucasfilm thinks they can continue spitting in the face of the fans and expect to keep their jobs. Mark my words: Chuck Wendig is just first to go. The fact that the film is 'risky' and "depressing" with "no real resolution to the story" is not my issue. It's how poorly the film delivered these elements. I did not complain "about the lack of a lightsaber duel as if that's what Star Wars needs to be whole and complete". I merely asked if you liked the fact that TLJ didn't have one? Please read more carefully. Any dissonance in the fandom is the fault of those in charge of Disney and Lucasfilm... of being oblivious to what makes Star Wars so loved around the world... and for making such a divisive film. Blaming the fans will get you nowhere fast.

Wouldn't you like all Star Wars films... ... to be written and made by the most competent and skilled people in the world ... to include intriguing new characters and dramatic plots ... to exceed your expectations ... to entertain and please the vast majority of fans and the general public? I'm sure Disney's high-ups and shareholders would. Given the company's vast capabilities and deep pockets, there is no reason they couldn't do this. But clearly, they aren't doing it. Why is that? This shouldn't be complicated. All they need is the interest and passion for the universe. Disney has a winning lottery ticket. But with the last two films and subsequent behavior of their employees, they seem determined to make Star Wars a political propaganda megaphone - so much so they they've lost focus on what made the franchise great in the first place: the universe, the mythology, the characters, 40 years of history, and the fans: men and women from all around the world, from every type of background... that want to love it. But the perception of a significant portion of the fans is that these films are, in general, lazy and uninspired. Most people will not praise them overall because of their high production values... or a few good lines, scenes, or characters... or the Star Wars licence, in general. Others go a step further and have thought out things a bit more. They've concluded that the film-makers and owners of the IP are generally unappreciative and on a selfish endevour: an attempt to change hearts and minds by changing Star Wars. Prominent social identity elements seem to take priority over the story and characters. To them, Disney has lost the plot. And in doing so, have lost their business. I'm not asking you to "die on a hill" for Star Wars. But Star Wars is capable of breaking cultural boundaries and taking escapism to heights never thought possible. Star Wars should be made to be enjoyed by everyone. Anyone dismissing it as just "stories about space wizards and laser swords" is being disingenuous. @Arpy As you are aware, this topic perfectly suits me. By definition, I cannot be a troll here. Please do not call me that again. Thank you. Moving on... I am not looking to be convinced or have my beliefs swayed. My main issue with The Last Jedi is not that it's simply a 'bad film'. It is that Rian Johnson made it clear that his goal was to "subvert expectations". Rather than furthering the character and plot with (fan-pleasing) creativity, he wrote an extremely lazy story... with divisiveness as the method of his madness. If his own words from 15 years ago aren't enough proof, the films' many... unexpected events should be. (And if you're still not convinced, his Twitter feed has certainly driven his point home.) Regarding "understanding why others think differently to" me... Did you like that there was no light-saber battle in TLJ, that every main character does objectively stupid things on a regular basis, that Rey's unexplained abilities seem to be endless, that Luke Skywalker's instinct was to kill his nephew in his sleep... and that he immediately gave up and secluded himself until he committed suicide? Do you like that Lucasfilm employees accuse critical/concerned fans as a sexist, racist, manbabies... and no official apology is issued? (John Boyega summed up their stants perfectly: "We don't care. 🤷‍♂️") The Last Jedi isn't just a bad film or Star Wars sequel... it's a deliberate insult to the majority of the fans. I find it ironic that the film's theme is that 'failure can be one's greatest teacher' while Rian Johnson has unapologetically ripped the fandom apart... and his trilogy hasn't been announced as cancelled. This is either stupidity or defiance from Disney. (Sort of like the situation regarding a certain contact extension.) Care to expand on what you meant by "toxic element" of negative criticism?

Chuck Wendig Fired From Marvel and Star Wars Excepts immediately before that: "help I fell down a weird rabbit hole of shitty Star Wars fans oh my god these people" Chuck Wendig 7:33 AM - May 31, 2018 "A movie also never *succeeds* because of its fans, because most moviegoers -- the ones who form the bulk of the moviegoing public, the ones who buy most of the tickets -- don't give a great honking shit about most of this stuff." Chuck Wendig 7:53 AM - May 31, 2018 "Their names change -- MRA, incel, gamer-gate, comics-gate, sad puppies, Real Star Wars fans -- but at the heart of it is the same fragile rage born of the poisonous chemical combination of white supremacy and toxic masculinity." Chuck Wendig 8:07 AM - May 31, 2018 "Writers are not your dancing monkeys. We do not create products. You are not our customers." Welcome to my TED Talk. 8:08 AM - Jun 20, 2018 Re: Trump supporters "MONDAY. The world is strange, gone mad, and we need you. We need your heart, your fight, your spirit. We need your voice, your ideas, your love. We need the fire you breathe, the passion in your blood, also I need to borrow your truck and a shovel because I have some bodies here" 7:18 AM - Oct 8, 2018 Before he was fired, Chuck Wendig was a writer for Star Wars comic books and had a Star Wars novel in the works (in addition to the three he had already written). Hopefully, this is a sign that Disney is realizing the problem they have... and Wendig is just the first to be let go in order to get Lucasfilm back on the right track.

I was willing to respond to Arpy, but he no longer deserves my time. Anyone else care dispute my response to him... or the awful state of Star Wars, as perceived by a significant percentage of the fans? I already said you could like the films, even if they are bad. No, a movie "being divisive" does not mean it is bad. But a lackluster story, poorly-written (or needless) new characters, destroying old/established characters, on-the-nose identity politics throughout, numerous plot-holes, and a director creating a divisive film just for "make me excited"-sake (knowing that it would anger the fans) DOES. So you're "quite happy" when Lucasfilm employees insult the fans and the president does nothing to stop them or apologize... but actually supports them and receives a contract extension when the films box office revenue and merchandise sales are dropping? "If Episode 9 ends up making billions of dollars", I'll eat my hat. If it doesn't even make one billion, what will be your explanation?

Keeping in mind the characters and events of the previous films in the series and its dozens of major problems on every level, TLJ is an objectively bad movie. But you can still like it. The "real consequence on the operations of a multi-billion dollar company" will be loosing hundreds of millions of dollars on a film and park due to a disenchanted fandom... that was broken due to crappy/underwhelming films, as well as and behavior from prominent figures of the company insulting (the intelligence of) the fans/customers. How "the negativity aimed towards the film was amplified" is irrelevant. The customer is always right. To be successful, just try to give them what they what. This is not complicated, but Disney/Lucasfilm either don't get it... or are being defiant. "Emotionally charged people" do not "think they're the caretakers of the franchise" and also do not "have to accept" these films and will vote with their dollar. Change? My prediction is that it will happen soon after Episode 9 is released. You can call my observation and complaints "crass oversimplifications of issues that aren't really issues to begin with" but they are issues, nonetheless. And the "consensus" of a significant number of fans makes it "that simple". Leia had never been shown capable of using the Force anywhere near the level shown in TLJ. Yet that action was the only thing she did of note in the film. But none of the characters thought it was "worth addressing". The fact that "a director for a sci-fi/fantasy film had to explain this on social media is fucking embarrassing for" him. What assumptions have I made? As far as "what others think and believe... who can see things clearly for what they are", perception is reality. And even in the 'real world', Disney/Lucasfilm have done nothing to calm our nerves or address our concerns - quite the opposite. What was Holdo's / Leia's original plan to escape the hyperspace-tracking-capable First Order fleet? But these are not "great movies", are they? They're lazy, poorly written, and divisive. Like many people, I don't want anything to do with companies that insult their customers or their intelligence. The most important thing is that you've enjoyed the movies. Isn't that a bit selfish of you? How you can be "quite happy" when the other "camp" is disgusted is... quite puzzling. If you are truly happy with the these films - and the state of Star Wars, in general - please explain why you feel this way. Not a chance. All of George's films made a significant profit, and he (or his employees) did not insult the fans... so much so that they would boycott the third film in the trilogy. No one 'asked' for Rogue One either. But that film was generally well-received and made a healthy profit. Also with Solo, "people were reassured by the inclusion of fan-favourite [Han Solo, Chewbacca, and Lando] and all the other iconic bullshit and no one knew what to expect. We were dealing with a team of new characters in a familiar setting, it was an uneven ground". It was basically the same thing, but people reacted differently. I wonder why... Not "approval" - interest and hope. As evidence with the utter failure of Solo, much of that has evaporated. You might laugh at some fans' conspiracy theories, but we will see what happens come next December... after the (vocal minority) fans have spoken with their financial silence at the box office. On the surface, that's why Iger 'took the blame' for Solo. Saying anything else would be blaming Kathleen Kennedy... and he was never going to go there, was he? It just sounds ridiculous to say that a Star Wars film released 5 months after the previous one is 'too much Star Wars'. And primarily that is why it lost his company $200M. Overexposure? I'm beginning to think that Bob Iger knew the backlash (due primarily to the divisiveness of TLJ) was real... and that keeping to the original release date would 'show strength', at least on the surface. But if Solo failed, he could personally take the blame, citing "too much, too fast". Let's be real, Solo still would have bombed in December. Iger knew this and definitely didn't want that to happen, hence the film's May release.

I love Star Wars. I'm "taking all this so damn seriously" because Star Wars is currently in the worst state it's ever been. You may not realize - or want to acknowledge - this yet, but come next December, you will. I feel sorry for those who like this heavily-flawed, purposely divisive film... and largely - or completely - dismiss the Lucasfilm's shameful, reckless behavior towards the franchise and fandom.

None of my friends or family members has any desire to pay Lucasfilm at this time. But yes, I will see Episode 9 eventually. But unless two of the following events occur: 1. Kathleen Kennedy has 'moved on' 2. Bob Iger (or the Lucasfilm president) sincerely apologizes for their employees' careless/insulting Twitter behavior directed at fans 3. Multiple trusted fans within the 'Disenchanted Community' say the film is worth supporting ... I will not see Episode 9 in theaters. Many fans feel the same way. And for some, all three of these criteria must be met before they would even consider seeing it.

After TFA, Rouge One didn't flop... a film that no one was "clamoring for". The burden of proof is on those who call us a 'vocal minority'. I can only point to Solo's disastrous box office showing... and thousands of Youtube videos filled with millions of comments from disillusioned fans. Correct. Shame they felt the need to kill them off one-by-one. In trying to 'pass the torch' to the young cast to garner new fans, they may have lost half of the 'old' fans. Released in December, Solo might have cracked half-a-billion (half a Rouge One) and made back its all-in-budget - embarrassing for a Star Wars film. What was "bad" was the film-makers insulting fans (customers). I can't stress this enough. @crumbs was implying who's to blame for "amplifying the toxicity" in sexual politics, making it more vicious and divisive. I don't think he had Bill Clinton in mind, though. Marketing is not Disney's problem... it's Human Resources and Public Relations. The shameful, demeaning language from numerous Lucasfilm employees toward concerned/upset fans needs to stop... and should have never happen in the first place! People don't appreciate being insulted... and will cease giving for Lucasfilm their business until they apologize or Kathleen Kennedy is no longer with the company. Some are completely done with Disney Star Wars. No matter what happens, she will not be fired... or at least it will not be announced that way. But if Episode 9 doesn't make a billion dollars, she'll step away... without being allowed to choose her successor.

In modern times, it began with Bill Clinton. All of your reasons (excuses) are the fault of Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy. The backlash is very real. We will see it again come next December... Correct. And in this case, two flops will mean no more KK. Don't forget the Russian bots and trolls! Please define "toxic" ... and prove that the disenchanted are only a 'vocal minority'!

You can enjoy Solo. But numbers do mean something. Rogue One, the other Star Wars spin-off film, made over a billion dollars at the world-wide box office. Solo did roughly a third of that because most fans didn't pay to see it more than once... or skipped it entirely. Did they do so exclusively because of The Last Jedi and the nonsense from Lucasfilm employees that followed... and still continues? No. But are you really trying to blame the failure of a Star Wars film on poor marketing, production woes, bad press, and other films showing at the time? A STAR WARS film ??? So, yeah, numbers do mean something... Over $2 billion still to make up, with sales down... At least 50% of your fans disenchanted... And 3 more years of Kathleen Kennedy, who is definitely losing sleep over this situation. It's safe to say that the profit of Episode 9 will determine her fate - not its score from critics.

True, but saying it's "likely that Solo won't make $200M in home video sales for decades" is not a far-fetched statment. Solo's failure at the box office is a direct result of TLJ (as a film) and the behavior of Lucasfilm towards the fans who were critical of it. As far as a group of fans that are disenchanted/concerned with the Disney's Star Wars, I'll point you to Thor Skywalker's channel, in my mind, the most thoughtful and fair-minded Star Wars discussion channel on Youtube. If you want confirmation of many 'people like me' and want to know why I feel the way I do, watch these videos: What proof and evidence am I "demanding"? What proof do you want? I don't have access to Disney's bank statements. But I am aware that film studios receive approximately 60% of the box office revenue for their films. Tally up the totals for new SW films, multiply by 0.6 and subtract the production and (approx.) marketing budgets (at least $125M each). Then subtract $4.05B. The net of the films: approx. negative $2.85B. Home video disc sales total approximately $358M (not including Solo or pay-per-view sales). Toy deals (Hasbro) and Disney park sales? Unknown. But I'm sure the in production Galaxy's Edge park isn't cheap. Bottom line? Lucasfilm still has about $2B to go before they make a profit on their investment. Stefancos, I can't be a troll in the topic that was created for me. Continuing to name-call only tells me that you're immature and don't deserve my respect, much less my time. Can we keep things civil, please? You made some good points regarding the women in TLJ. I was merely posing as those who feel the women in the film weren't represented in a positive way. You are right. But revenue and profit speak volumes. Are 'people like me' just a vocal minority? Russian bots? Alt-right trolls? Who knows? Does it matter? Not until Episode 9 rolls around, the box office tally of which will be the determining factor of the state of modern Star Wars and its leadership. Did you forget about hyperspace tracking, hyperspace ramming as a weapon, a Jedi Master refusing to use the Force, Force communication across a great distance (with bonus feature: physical interaction!), and Force projection?

You're being naive if you think Kathleen Kennedy didn't approve of Johnson's story and script before the film went into production. No doubt she asked him to included strong women and have Luke Skywalker die. But one could make the case that the film does not portray strong, 'beautifully-written' women. Quite the opposite: - Rey seemed out of character and confused for most of the film. - Leia's plan for the Resistance to escape the First Order was awful. - Holdo seemed unreasonable with Poe. - Rose tazed Finn, lectured him, and selfishly prevented him from making the ultimate sacrifice... which most likely could have bought Rey enough time to rescue the survivors... and kept Luke Skywalker from having to make the ultimate sacrifice. - Captain Phasma came and went... again. (And in a deleted scene, killed four stormtroopers after they heard Finn's testimony regarding her deactivating the shields of Starkiller Base.) I think someone already posted this video, made by a popular Star Wars Youtube channel. I believe its like/dislike ratio indicates, with relative accuracy, the divide of the fandom: Me: TLJ is a deliberately divisive film and objectively deficient in almost every major way (definitely not the score!). Lucasfilm employees are constantly insulting the fans, many of which will not support Lucasfilm at all until its leadership/writing personnel has changed and the film/show content has improved. But you can still like the film. You: Maybe if we continue arguing with Mattris (while making fun of him), we'll eventually get him on something... which will make us feel better since he's made us realize what a crap film TLJ is.

I don't know... and don't care, to be honest. All I know is that Rose bribed the children so they would let out the animals... so she could use them to demolish the city, laughing all the way. SJW, anyone?

Official source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/arashell-sar "abandoned children working in the Canto Casino’s fathier stables" Fan source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canto_Bight "Rose convinced the child worker Temiri Blagg to help them escape in return for giving him her Resistance ring."

No, just ones that contain a clear a social agenda... that disrespect the most popular film franchise in the world... the film-makers of which insult, accuse, and marginalize the fans without shame... and who companies' presidents get contracts extended for breaking a fandom and loosing money on a feature film.

Vice Admiral Holdo gave Captain/Lieutenant Poe absolutely no reason why she refused to tell him her plan to survive the dire situation they found themselves in. Did she even have a plan? We aren't told until deep into the film. The plan turned out to be Leia's... and was as follows: Travel at maximum (regular-engine) speed in hopes of reaching a planet millions of miles away - that contained an old Rebel base - before the Resistance fleet is completely wiped-out. During this 'chase', Resistance ships were picked-off by enemy ships... ships with all remaining Resistance soldiers on-board. Leia and most of the senior leadership were blown-up and sucked into space... but the chase continued. The audience was told that the ships had enough fuel for one more hyperspace jump. All ships could have jumped at different trajectories in hopes of evading the the First Order... but the slow chase continued. Rose and Finn hyper-spaced away in a small ship... but the slow chase continued. Inexplicably, Holdo decided to stay with 'her' ship - the last remaining. When the landing transports exited the ship, they were promptly taken out one-by-one by enemy fire. Before all transport were destroyed, Holdo made the decision to hyperspace her large cruiser into the First Order capitol ship, sacrificing herself to cripple its fleet. When the Resistance made it to the planet Crait, we learn that the last step of Leia's plan was to use the old equipment to call people/groups sympathetic to the Resistance cause and wait for them to respond, with hopes that they would immediately come to their aid to engage the First Order. No response. The surviving soldiers are dejected, having realized that they would likely all be killed... because the base didn't have a back door, sufficient weaponry, or ships with which to use to escape before the First Order arrives. So after all this, I conclude that what was shown in the film would not 'facilitate growth into a responsible leader' because this 'plan' could not have been more foolish or insane. But I don't fault Holdo or Leia. I put the blame squarely where it belongs: on Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy. Rose 'establishing a sympathetic backstory' is one thing. But she just expressed disgust at the apathetic, affluent, inhabitants of Canto Bight... before stealing race horses and riding them through the casino and city, in a deliberate effort to destroy private property. Some of the animals were surely injured or killed... and later rounded-up. With no place else to run, Finn says, "It was worth it... you know, to make them hurt". Rose: "No... (removes saddle) ... Now it's worth it." This scene - and most of Canto Bight, in general - practically broke the fourth wall. No characters existing in TLJ for a social agenda? You have to be joking. Rose and Holdo needn't exist in TLJ - much less be featured - at the detriment of getting to know more about the already-established characters of Finn and Poe, who play second-fiddle to two strong female characters, who were 'beautifully written'... or so Kathleen Kennedy would like you to believe. What was shown was factually not child slavery. They were 'child workers' for an animal racing stable. Obviously, I can't show you "thousands/millions of posts" complaining about fans' anger and frustration, but you can easily find them on Youtube and other sites. For now, my proof is Solo: a Star Wars film with the highest budget of any Star Wars project... and the first Star Wars film to be an utter financial failure... so much so, that even with home video sales, will likely will not make a profit for decades. Wrong. Rey is limited to what we are shown and written to be by the film-makers. Once again, Rey is not Han. In ANH, Han had already shot and killed a bounty hunter literally 'under the table' when he destroyed TIE fighters. While Rey, in TFA, was shocked at killing a stormtrooper. And in TLJ, enraged while killing the guardsmen. Literally saying "I like this!" after killing enemy pilots to save her friends is not consistent with her character in the slightest. I can't believe you can't admit this.

What "dumb shit" have I said? You say, having a character exist merely to make a social statement "didn't happen". How then do you legitimize the inclusion of Holdo and Rose in precisely the way they were portrayed? Please address how they affected the other characters and overall story.

It's reasonable for someone - Rey included - to 'expressed relief' when helping to save people you care about. But that's not the extent of what was shown in this shot. Rey killed three enemy combatants with the Falcon's laser turret and then literally said she LIKED what she had done while smiling. Her use of the word "like" is what I take issue with. After stealing the Jedi texts, one can assume that she was adamant to study/train to become a Jedi. Rey had never previously been shown expressing pleasure that she had killed someone. In TFA, she shot a stormtrooper and appeared shocked at what she had done. When defeating the Praetorian Guardmen, she was enraged. Saying "like" is not 'acting relieved'. I never said I was a fan "who champion the status quo." I would have welcomed a somewhat different or unexpected Star Wars story had it been told well. But overall, TLJ is a travesty. In general, I think The Last Jedi looks and sounds impressive, contains some good acting, and features a superb score by John Williams. But from a story and character development standpoint (and as Star Wars film and sequel), it's utter garbage... and filled with social engineering agenda. The fact that you can't recognize their agenda is disturbing. Please tell me, why were Holdo, Rose, and (the events of) Canto Bight included so prominently... or in the film at all? Why were all the men so inept? I've provided dozens of specific examples of why I think the film is a disaster on almost every level... and after my research and online 'vibe' of the fans, can say with confidence that countless thousands (possibly millions) of people agree with me. You can like the film. But word of its many issues - as well as the film-makers' rude/insulting reactions to the fans' displeasure/concern - is spreading quickly. Fans - and the general public - are learning/realizing that this film was designed to upset - or flat out anger - a significantly portion of the fans. I think by the time Episode 9 rolls around, Star Wars fans that are supporters of TLJ will be in the minority... if it hasn't already happened.

At least I put some effort into my posts. You mostly seem to just contradict my opinions. But you cannot contradict my facts. Killing three people in a war should NEVER be "a moment of joy [...] and happiness". I have no issue with "someone to go[ing] through several emotions" within a short period of time, including 'relief'. I do have a problem with a Jedi-hopeful literally saying, "Whoo! I LIKE THIS" with a big smile immediately after destroying three TIEs with a single shot. Oh, and this was the first time we saw Rey use the Falcon's gun. What a natural! No surprise from me. In only a week or so, Rey's life had been tossed and turned in every way imaginable. But her reaction to firing that weapon was as if she was playing video game at a party with friends.

You have me there: TLJ was dumb. I will continue to explain why this movie failed as a sequel to TFA, as a Star Wars movie, and film, in general. The movie has so many issues that its clear Rian Johnson either did not know what he was doing... or he was intentionally screwing with the fans. 'Subverting expectations' only works if the story and characters benefit from the unexpected. Just 'doing something you didn't see coming' may not be appropriate... or desired by your audience. When Rian Johnson was writing the film, I don't think he cared about the fans ("Your Snoke Theory Sucks")... and he still doesn't. He is a clearly a selfish, petty man. That's the problem the fans have with him. That line actually does change everything. After all that she'd been through that day, she literally exclaimed that she liked destroying TIEs with the Falcon's gun... in a effort to prevent the Resistance speeders from being shot. Don't you think it would have been more appropriate to show her concentrating or looking more serious in that particular moment? Han's reaction in ANH was "Ha, ha!" - not "I like this". And Rey is not Han. After his traumatic events in ANH, Luke was shown grieving or 'having a moment'. But Rey goes from confronting Snoke and Kylo to playing a video game called Millennium Falcon Gunner. "Woo! I like this!" Absolutely ridiculous.

"Killing bad guys" to narrowly save one's friends from being killed is not exactly "putting your troubles aside". Her exclamation ("whoo!") and smile would have been bad enough. Bluntly adding "I like this" is a completely unnatural and unrealistic reaction for her character.

Her line is not analogous to those two examples. Anakin was a kid and capable pilot, with no reason not to be excited. After the death of his aunt and uncle, Ben assured him that "there's nothing you could have done". Luke decided in that moment to become a Jedi like his father... and put their deaths behind him. After Ben was killed, we got to see Luke mourn his loss, with Leia comforting him similarly, "There wasn't anything you could have done". The previous scene with Rey saw her in tears regarding her parents... before fighting for life to Force-pull the lightsaber from Kylo. After her stint as Falcon gunner, Rey saved her friends... and realized that her hope to 'save' Ben has come to an end as she closes the door on him, metaphorically and literally. Destroying TIE fighters is one thing, but smiling while saying she 'likes' it is just... wrong. Rian Johnson was clearly trying to lighten the mood and tell the audience how to feel with Daisy Ridley's smiling face. But that line was inconsistent with her character development. Plain and simple.

Ah, yes... the "Woo! I like this!" line from Rey. Just a hour prior, Rey narrowly escaped Kylo after confirming what she had always known: her parents were "nobody". Before that, she had stolen the ancient Jedi texts after abandoning Luke Skywalker, who was a shadow of what she expected and refused to leave the island. WHY DID SHE "LIKE" DESTROYING THE TIE FIGHTERS AND KILLING THE THE PILOTS? And with a big smile? This behavior is inconsistent with what little character development she experienced in the film. Maybe one day you'll realize something else..... that The Last Jedi sucks ass!