Mattris

Just thinking about Yoda semi-materializing in TLJ... to interact with the physical world: summoning lightning and hitting Luke with his cane. I think the Force ghosts are making substantial progress in the realm of the Cosmic Force.
 
My prediction is that Yoda, Luke, Anakin, and maybe even Obi-wan will physically return without Ben Solo... as the Force auto-balances when Palpatine returns.
 
Ben brings his father back to life. Rey brings back her 'father'... but it will mean the death of her, as he takes her body. How shocking!

Ben Solo will bring back Han and Luke and will assist him in defeating Palpatine, once and for all. Lucasfilm has been quite clear (and repetitive):
 
"No one's ever really gone."

- For Johnson not to have scrapped anything, JJ would not have had treatments for VIII and IX. Is that what you think?
 
- If so, it would follow that you think that JJ and L. Kasdan wrote all of those lines (that I quoted above) without an idea of their (intended) meaning. Is that what you think?
 
- Do you believe Johnson when he says he didn't meet with JJ before he wrote TLJ?
 
You clearly have no idea how John Williams composes for films. He meets with the director to discuss the story/characters and often spots the film to decide how the score should sound, where music should be present, etc.
 
And if you think the similarities in Rey's Theme to the villains' themes can simply be attributed to 'Star Wars style', you grossly underestimate him and JJ Abrams. You honestly think all of those low-high-mid ordered note groupings in the cadence of her theme mean nothing, along with the abundance of minor thirds?

@Chen G. I look forward to your answers to these questions:
 
- At SWC 2019 (in April), Kathleen Kennedy said that 'Palpatine's return was planned from the beginning'. Do you believe her?
 
- Do you think JJ and L. Kasdan wrote all of those lines (above) without an idea of their (intended) meaning? Or perhaps you think that, in making his own movie with 'no criteria or limitations', Rian Johnson scrapped JJ's plans for the trilogy. But how would Johnson have known they were scrapped if 'they didn't meet before he wrote TLJ'?
 
- Do you think John Williams was told of Rey's origin/fate so that he could compose her theme accordingly, with The Emperor and Vader Themes interwoven?
 
- If Disney/Lucasfilm finally admit that the Sequel Trilogy was planned in advance, will you believe them?

Who says I don't? What's truly "fascinating" is that, with the Sequel Trilogy, millions of people around the world have been fooled... while the facts and answers have been (hidden) in plain slight all along.
 
 
I notice that you rarely answer my direct questions.

After all I've presented, you still think that? Now I'm curious if you'll ever change your mind... even after IX is released. What if Lucasfilm finally admit that everything regarding the Sequel Trilogy was planned in advance? Kathleen Kennedy is already on camera say that 'Palpatine's return was planned from the beginning'.

Of course Luke's lines in the trailers are directed to his nephew... always have been... all the way back to the TFA trailer from April 2015 ("The Force is strong in my family..."). Luke trained Ben as a Jedi for over a decade. Who the hell is Rey?

First of all, my theories are based on canon events and (very specifically written) language. I already presented a bunch of relevant quotes from the films... and will post direct quotes from the books later on.
 
The fact is, Disney/Lucasfilm have been presenting themselves in a quite an unorthodox manner in regards to Star Wars. They...
 
... (seemingly) gave us a remake of ANH featuring a Mary Sue lead... then a subversive Ep. VIII.
... gave (Twitter troll & proven liar) Rian Johnson a Star Wars trilogy before his first movie was even released. 
... allowed dozens of rude/dismissive comments from Lucasfilm employees. ("We don't care.")
... allowed the media to run with false narratives directed a critical/concerned (racist/sexist!) fans.
... said they're making the trilogy up as they go.
... produced an epic failure (SOLO).
 
Disney CEO Bob Iger blames the fan disenchantment and significantly dropping revenue on ("too much, too soon") and just recently, admitted that George Lucas felt "betrayed" when they didn't use his story treatments.
 
Any one of these events should raise suspicion. But all of them? This smells beyond fishy. It's obvious to me that they are trolling the masses on a scale never before seen in entertainment. Some would say these film makers are simply incompetent, but I don't believe that for a second.
 
Disney's unique handling of Star Wars in its first years of ownership is sure to go down in history, regardless of how the Saga concludes.

Rey means well, but she is has been shown to be selfish and naive... to a fault. She has also been tempted to the dark side numerous times. The novelizations make this clearer, and she even hears a voice in her mind call out to her to kill Kylo at the end of TFA. In TLJ, the dark side cave calls to her, and Luke realizes that she "went straight to the dark" and "didn't even try to resist it."
 
Rey is obsessed with learning about her parents and her "place in all this". Kylo seems to know his place... but wants to 'kill the past' and his parents. Don't think for a second that these directly opposing character motivations are unrelated to the overall story.
 
I will present more evidence and expand my theory. One more clue for now, from the TFA novelization:
 
Maz Kanata to Rey: "You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But there's someone who still could. With your help."

You think I'm wrong, @Chen G. ? Based on what evidence... surface level events of the events only? Trust me, you are being tricked. My predictions are based on canon events and quotes - not just summaries.

POSSIBLE  EPISODE IX  SPOILERS
 
Having pieced together the clues and cryptic language in the Star Wars canon material and films (including the first 6 Episodes), cracking their code in the process, I am no longer "pissed off" with the TFA and TLJ. I can't say I appreciate Disney/Lucasfilm's deviousness and dismissive / rude behavior, but I realize it has been part of their epic distraction / trolling job.
 
From the very beginning, it was known 'mystery box' writer/producer/director JJ Abrams' plan to misdirect the masses into thinking he simply remade ANH and had little-to-no involvement with TLJ. They are making it up as they go! This is utter nonsense, as the canon material proves otherwise. (Shame only a relative few bothered to look into it in any significant way.)
 
Kylo has ulterior motives... and has been trying to save Rey from herself... and ultimately the galaxy from Palpatine, who Kylo knows is not yet actually dead... and could return unless he intervenes.
 
Palpatine to Anakin: "He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about... from dying."
 
Kylo/Ben to Vader's helmet: "Forgive me. I feel it again... the pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again... the power of the darkness, and I'll let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."
 
Ben to his father: "I'm being torn apart. I know what I have to do, but I don't know it I have the strength to do it."
 
Rey to Ben:"You're afraid... that you will never be as strong as Darth Vader!"
 
As featured in the Vader comics and Vader Immortal VR game, bringing back Padme from death was Vader's obsession.
 
What this is all point towards: Ben Solo has being sinking himself into the dark side in order to understand how to finally defeat Palpatine... and will resurrect Han Solo and Luke.
 
"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
 
"No one's ever really gone."
 
Rey is not a Hero's Journey. She has been presented as a well-intentioned person with an unexplained affinity for the Force, including the ability to acquire the Force abilities of Force users who use their powers on her... so far Kylo and Snoke. (Luke was wise enough not to try.) Rey will acquire Kylo's newly-acquired 'Force resurrection' ability and attempt to resurrect her parents... that do not exist. Instead, Rey will resurrect her creator: Palpatine, who will use her body as a vessel to return 'in the flesh'. 
 
"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design."
 
Luke to Rey: "This is not going to go the way you think."
 
But it will probably go the way I think.

The questions and theories I'm posing are as substantive and educated as anything in the other Star Wars threads. Why are you getting so frustrated that you feel the desire to squash my speech? I'm curious, what have I said that annoys you?
 
 
@Chen G. I see you chose to amend an earlier post to appear that you weren't avoiding answering this question of mine. Moving forward, please respond in new posts only. It will make the conversation easier to keep track of.
 
I'll continue waiting for your assessment of those particular lines from TFA (above), particularly, if you think Abrams and Kasdan meant something by including them... and if you think JJ is bringing back Palpatine in IX because Rian Johnson just happened to kill Snoke in VIII.
 
Your musical analysis is highly flawed, as you are clearly unaware of John Williams' film composing technique, especially as it relates to prequels and sequels. Countless past examples of his use of leitmotif indicate that John Williams would have included The Emperor's Theme - whilst Rey's was being tortured - quite deliberately, for a specific character- and/or story-based reason. It was not 'to sound familiar'. Nor did Williams compose Rey's Theme to include hints of Darth Vader's Theme and The Emperor Theme accidentally, coincidentally, for no reason at all, or can simply be attributed it to 'the Star Wars sound'. I'm sorry, but this an an incredibly naive and ignorant perspective. Mark my words, you will be proven wrong.

Do you not think that George Lucas is/was a master of story crafting? Why does it matter that he thought of some story elements later in his story-writing process? Can you prove which ones weren't planned early on... or from the very beginning?
 
As Executive Producer of the Sequel Trilogy, do you not think that JJ Abrams intended to be mysterious and ambiguous... to makes things interesting through to the conclusion of the Saga? Do you think he did not have meaning behind those (above) lines in TFA?
 
Do you think JJ is bringing back Palpatine in IX because Rian Johnson just happened to have Snoke killed in TLJ?
 
How do you think The Emperor's Theme wound up in TLJ during Rey's torture scene?
 
Please @Chen G., answer these questions.
 
 
@Arpy Glad to have your support in regards to my theories. Please put in a word for me on the outside!

No, a master of story crafting.

Then, once again, you are not giving the writer and composer enough credit. These men are the masters of their craft.
 
Mystery and ambiguity makes things interesting. Just ask JJ Abrams!
 
Do you think JJ is bringing back Palpatine in IX because Rian Johnson just happened to kill Snoke in VIII?
 
How do you think The Emperor's Theme wound up in TLJ during Rey's torture scene?

I didn't say that George Lucas wrote all of the scripts in advance. But if you concede that he had all the major plot-points of the prequel trilogy in his mind from the beginning, then why is a stretch to believe that, during the spotting sessions, he instructed John Williams to include The Emperor's Theme ... for the specific reason that he later revealed? I'd say the reason behind how and why Anakin's mother was kidnapped and killed is a major plot point!

How do you know that George Lucas penned that scene in 2003... or that he didn't tell John Williams to include The Emperor's Theme for that specific reason?
 
I look forward to your answers to my other questions.

As revealed in an alternate version of an early scene in Revenge of the Sith, George Lucas' explanation of Shmi's kidnapping was attributed to Palpatine, who told Anakin that Count Dooku arranged for the Tusken Raiders to carry out the deed. In the film, this scene contains Palpatine's infamous order to Anakin to kill Dooku by decapitation: "Do it."
 
Believing for a second that Dooku had Anakin's mother kidnapped (and tortured to near-death) on his own - without explicit direction and oversight from Palpatine - would be incredibly naive. Palpatine's plan all along was to turn Anakin to the Dark Side and become his new apprentice. He knew that the (crude, untimely) death of Anakin's mother would be a major step in his "journey towards the Dark Side".
 
Oh, and the line at the end of the D23 Special Look ("Your journey nears its end.") is a clear reference to the only instance of "journey" being used in the films... by The Emperor to Luke in Return of the Jedi: "Strike me down with all your hatred and your journey towards the Dark Side will be complete."
 
And indeed, Ben Solo and Rey's journeys towards the Dark Side are nearing their end. Rey's path will end in darkness, as it began. Ben Solo has been sinking himself into the Dark in an effort to learn about the Sith and Darth Sidious, as well as the "unnatural" ability to bring back his father. Alongside past Jedi, Ben will have a major role in defeating Palpatine... once and for all.

@Chen G. These bloody lines:
 
"You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But there's someone who still could." The TFA novelization adds "With your help."
 
"You're afraid... that you will never be as strong as Darth Vader!"
 
"Forgive me. I feel it again... the pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again... the power of the darkness, and I'll let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."
 
"I'm being torn apart. I know what I have to do, but I don't know it I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?"
 
From the second TFA trailer: "The Force is strong in my family... You have that power too."
 
Do you think that JJ and Lawrence Kasdan wrote these lines without an intention or idea of their meaning?
 
 
If Rian Johnson had no criteria when writing TLJ, except keep Rey and Kylo alive, then he had criteria. Do you seriously believe that he was allowed to have Rey go "straight to the dark", have Yoda semi-materialize, and kill off Luke and Snoke without oversight/advisement/instruction from KK, JJ, and/or the Story Group? He didn't even meet with JJ before writing his film. You really buy that?
 
 
Before I respond to your musical analysis and (John Williams) scoring assumptions, please answer this: How do you think The Emperor's Theme wound up (note-for-note) in TLJ?

Nah, JW specifically said that he only agreed to score TLJ because it was confirmed to him that Daisy was in it. If my theory comes to pass, Daisy will continue in the film even if Rey dies.
 
@Chen G. I'm curious to hear your answers to these specific questions of mine... that I already posed:
 
- For Johnson not to have scrapped anything when writing TLJ, JJ would not have had treatments for VIII and IX. Is that what you think?
- If so, it would follow that you think that JJ and L. Kasdan wrote all of those lines (that I quoted on the previous page) without an idea of their (originally intended) meaning. Is that what you think?
- Do you believe Johnson when he says he didn't meet with JJ before he wrote TLJ?
- Do you think that the low-high-mid ordered note groupings in the cadence of Rey's Theme (like Darth Vader's Theme) mean nothing specific - along with the abundance of minor thirds (The Emperor's Theme) in her theme and motif?

Or maybe it's not above Rian Johnson to lie when he said 'he could do whatever he wanted with Episode VIII after not meeting with (Executive Producer) JJ Abrams'. (Or perhaps Johnson spoke extensively with JJ over the phone or email.) The interviewer wanted a definitive answer, and Kathleen Kennedy gave it to him: Episode IX was always going to include Palpatine's return.
 
This aligns with this recent statement from JJ Abrams:
 
"Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at the nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before. If you look at the first eight films, all the set-ups of what we’re in IX are there in plain view."
 
This confirms that my selected (intriguing) quotes from TFA, TLJ, and the canon material were included quite deliberately as "set-ups" and proof of their plan. Episode IX will reveal their meaning.
 
With so much at stake, Abrams and Kennedy were never going to leave the story of the Sequel Trilogy up to chance, with three separate writers and directors. I'm sorry, but with all of this information at hand, only a fool would conclude otherwise.

@Chen G. Do you believe Kathleen Kennedy when she confirmed that 'Palpatine was always planned to be in Episode IX' ?
 
 

@Chen G. Do you think that Rian Johnson was allowed to kill off Snoke - in the particular way that it occurred in the film - without oversight or approval from Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, or any Disney executive?

Who here is being irrational?

Sorry, misread your question. If my theories are all incorrect, I will be utterly shocked. What JJ comes up with instead will need to align with the all the films and canon material. If IX happens different than I predict, I doubt it will be better. (And I still have more of my theory to reveal.)
 
Like you, I'm sure JJ knows what he's doing. I'm pretty sure I know what he's doing, as well.
 
Thoughts on my theory?