David Coscina

I've mellowed when it comes to Hansy. I still won't say he's near my favorite composer but I like some of his music, and some of it quite a lot. I still play good chunks of Last Samurai and enjoy it. "A Hard Teacher" is a terrific quiet cue with some variations on an earlier theme, harmonized almost in a Goldsmitian manner. I like parts of Thin Red Line. What I don't care for are his "big" scores. And even then, I can listen to "A Dark Knight" from The Dark Knight like I would a Tangerine Dream piece (like Tangram) and enjoy it as pure listening. I really still have an insipid dislike of his "action" music. It sounds noisy and clumbsy. Either too much going on at once or everything stacked on top of each other. Either way, it's migraine inducing. I don't think Powell is a Zimmer clone. His action music can get a little noisy but I can appreciate listening to his music in its entirety a lot more.

No he doesn't but he's not awful either. Somewhere in between.

I got my iTunes version this morning and I'm waiting for the CD to arrive. I deleted the 128kbps version pretty much immediately and the 256kbps version is much much better. The detail in the writing comes out much better and it makes a difference in over-all listening enjoyment. I know the CD will be even moreso. Love to hear it in 5.1 surround as well. I really enjoy this disc. It's got some truly intimate moments that I would say are pleasant addition to the franchise. I love those tentative string crescendos on "Harry and Ginny". It's something we don't hear much in film scores- I have to go back to Conti's Rocky in fact to hear that kind of phrasing. I was on a bit of a John Powell HTTYD kick for a couple weeks and like that score quite a bit except that it's a little excessive in the dynamics and doubling dept from time to time (a criticism that is consistent amongst even the biggest advocates of the score)and the thing I really enjoy about Desplat's HP by comparison is that it breaths. There are moments where you hear a solo cello, you hear the staccato flutes, there's exposed instrumental writing. Sometimes a solo instrument can carry as much weight as 100 playing en masse. Herrmann knew this and I hear Desplat paying respect to the film and his music in the same manner.

I would have to agree partly with the Bruckheimer factor. Zimmer's Driving Miss Daisy was a very good score. So was Thelma & Louise. I certainly like parts of various other Zimmer scores but my main complaint is the inconsistency, sometimes within the same score which is a direct result of "too many hands in the pot" syndrome. At this point, it's very hard to say if Zimmer is bad or whether it's one of his "helpers". While I agree in theory with his benevolent approach, somehow it has done the craft of film scoring a disservice because it's rendered this part of the film process as very generic and homogeneous sounding. As I've pointed out more than a few times, a world with Zimmer and Shore and Williams and Yared and Goldsmith and Herrmann would be fine because they all have their own sound and it's nice to have variety. We're largely coming out of the R-C sound on everything fad from the last decade which is a good thing- even Zimmer himself sounds tired of it which is why he's doing things like Sherlock Holmes and such. Truth be told, I didn't like the Williams imitators when his style was what everyone wanted to replicate. I don't mind when people ape Goldsmith's sense of rhythmic intensity or Herrmann's motivic and harmonic sensibilities as much because it all gets back to Bartok and Stravinsky anyhow. As a little footnote about all this- I just got an email from the director of the film I'm helping out with and his mandate was "lose the synths, use more orchestral sounds" for his score. I'm delighted that some directors want the acoustic sound. Given how complex the orchestra is, there are still untapped sounds one can get out of them. It's fun to mix together ensembles that haven't been capitalized on either. Synths are certainly a viable sound source but I think, sometimes, it's a shortcut to thinking and using one's creativity. Plus, with the orchestra, there's less places to hide. You write something with bad voice leading or an awkward intervalic leap and you'll notice right off. Anyhow, I'm not going to savage Zimmer- He clearly loves what he's doing and I think he's trying to respect music in the best way he can. Just because he doesn't have the same skill level as Williams at formal composition (and let's be clear, he isn't the only one- there are legions who don't), he's still able to use his skills and creativity to aptly bring something to a film. :cool:

Karol, nice observations. I agree to some extent about this not being as memorable as New Moon which had that wonderful Dreamcatcher theme and the Volturie waltz. To me I believe Desplat was a little too self conscious about aping Williams' style for HP and that prevented him from providing his own thematic talents. Benjamin Button has a lot of emotion for me and there are parts if HP that also evoke a visceral response but on a smaller scale compared to the composer's previous efforts.

Good topic although I would say he's definitely changed the course of film music quite profoundly, both in his work philosophy (many composers on one project) and style. I guess at this stage it's hard to say it's "bad" or "good". I would say in terms of pure orchestral music, looking at the traditions set by Prokofiev, Mahler, Bach, Beethoven, Stravinsky, Vaughan Williams, Mozart, etc. his music is not anywhere as competent. But that can be said of 80% of current composers writing for film, whether it's their lack of chops or the mandate of their bosses (the directors). The problem when trying to ascribe a qualitative assessment of a form that encompasses so many different bodies and approaches is that you cannot rest the blame on a sole entity. If every film composer were to get commissions for concert works by the London Symphony Orchestra here's the guys I'm sure would do it right: Desplat Yared Gordon Giacchino Thomas Newman Marianelli Shore maybe JN Howard...no strike that Elfman Powell Rupert Gregson Williams * I don't know why this guy doesn't get more work- he's very talented! a few others that I cannot recall at the moment

Gordon really is an untapped commodity. I would be perfectly happy with more Gordon scores and less Tyler, Bates, Badelt, Jablonsky, etc etc etc. He actually has his own sound.

Koray, you should definitely check out Daybreakers which I think is a little more enjoyable listening as it balances the horror aspects of the vampirism (stark Octatonic scale choral stuff) with more emotive string work for the human aspect. also, his Mao's Last Dancer is a beautiful score. I actually think it might garner some Oscar attention because of how melodic and integral the music is in the film. It depends on whether the filmmakers can get the attention it deserves. Moby Dick is an epic score. Its probably one of the biggest scores you could find written for a TV movie. The thing I appreciate about Gordon is that he can achieve a colossal sound without having to use a huge orchestra. He's got orchestration chops and then some. I don't want to go too off topic on this thread but I do think perhaps Gordon would have supplied a more consistent tone to Harry Potter for most fans. I honestly do think Desplat hit a home run but I was already a fan of his so I like his style. Gordon does use minimalism in his music too but he leans more to strong melodies/themes perhaps a little moreso. And at the end of the day, his harmonic choices obviously resound with more film score fans than Desplat whose style has been called "cold" by a number of people- some of whom (Mark Olivarez and Erik Woods) whose opinions I do respect so there probably is something to this.

I did an interview with Gordon last year and he's as nice as they come. He knows a tremendous amount about music and while I love what Desplat did with HP I now cant stop wondering what a Gordon HP would have sounded like. I also would have loved to hear his version of LOTR. Truthfully Gordon is a better composer than like 75% of whose currently popular in Hollywood. BTW his theme from Moby Dick would have made a superb Star Trek theme. Majestic, bold, and stirring.

Yes Chris Gordon is indeed a composer first and foremost. I totally agree. I haven't seen Mao's Last Dancer but I love his music for it. It paints a beautiful portrait for the listener without needing the film.

Point is that I can enjoy Yared's and Desplat's score as pure listening compared to many scores these days that need the film to give them some context. I know it's not essential for a composer to write music that stands apart from the film but I got into soundtracks in the first place (back in the '70s) BECAUSE of this very thing. Were there better composers back then? Yes. Are there good "film" composers nowadays? Yes. I just don't seem to prefer the "film" composers to the composers who wrote for film 20-30 years ago. Simple as that.

Desplat is the only current composer whose music I can listen to and enjoy without having seen the film. Everyone else I have to watch the film to gain more appreciation for the score including Powell, Giacchino, Zimmer, James Newton Howard, Howard Shore, etc. Yared can write amazing music that I enjoy but clearly Hollywood doesn't care about him so we don't get a lot domestically from him these days.

I know this is probably just a sarcastic thread but if you guys are going to slam Desplat, it would be nice to see actual thoughtful observations about what it is that doesn't do it for you rather than just throwing out these one liners. Not too productive don't you think?

Then start pulling your contacts! I solute your optimism!

I would love to score this film! I totally would bring in the Goldsmith tone. I love the sparse stark quality of his original score. Still the best of the bunch, although Goldenthal's is my second fave. I think he did bridge some of that quality to Alien3 IMO but just made it more savage at the same time. Wreckage and Rape (the opening) is still one of my all time fave renditions of the Fiorina 1 theme. It's as apocalyptic as anything I've ever heard.

Sorry but I dislike the fall-back position of the "freedom of speech" entitlement. Yes, everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion. But when they keep on about the same thing from post to post not offering anything new to the thread, especially when it's clear about their position, it seems excessive and not constructive. For me, if I see a thread on Brian Tyler or Tyler Bates or Hans Zimmer, I mostly avoid it these days. What's the point of chiming in merely to say "this sucks" or "there's no theme". Am I entitled to posting it? Yes. Does it add anything of value to the thread or this forum? No. so what is the point? To rile people who do like whatever the score is pretty much or generally get attention. Blumenkohl and I have had surely had some debates on this forum so I'm not siding with him because we're all good friends- I totally agree with his position because he's presented some very well thought out ideas- posts which gkgyver edited down to a single quote which completely misrepresents Blumenkohl's stance. Sorry but you're not going to win any debate points by hacking up someone's position to a single sentence out of all the exposition they have gone to the trouble of articulating. gkgyver, YES, we get it. You don't like Desplat's themes. Fine, move on if you will. What I really find perverse about this thread in particular is that the people defending Desplat are resorting to the same desperate means that people defend Zimmer and R-C scores. I can't say whether the score works in the film because I haven't seen it yet. For me, it works as a pure listening experience. I keep getting something new out of each listen. It's not easily digestible upon its first or second listening. Like real art, it's layered and there is a lot of finesse and subtlety there. I still think Desplat might have been too faithful to Williams' approach in some cues but largely I think he was quite successful at providing a mature, evolved score for this franchise rather than a 1 dimensional effort. Of course this is my opinion and others will debate it by I stand firmly by it. As Seinfeld said once "okay you guys have been great, I'm outta here" [at least for this thread] Cheers! David

Hmmm let's look at a summary of the arguments for and against this score: 1. The detractors use adjectives like "boring" to put forth their position 2. The advocates have included specific music examples and have appeared to be more objective in their description of why they enjoy the score. I dunno guys but I think some of the pro-Desplat people have Bern reduced to some heated verbiage because the people who don't like the score are ignoring some pretty articulate posts about the merits of this score and sticking firmly in the camp of fluffy adjectives or faux philosophy, neither of which is going to convince the supporters to change their position. I guess the only thing left to say is to those of you who clearly don't like it. Why rain on the parade of those who do on this thread? Do you guys just like to stir up people when clearly you don't like Desplat's attempt? My only criticism is that I fear Desplat occasionally is too self conscious of his Potter/Williams obligations in this score and didn't go his own route like he should have. There is tons of nods to Williams throughout this score in terms if his stylistic mannerisms but you guys cannot hear it because you obviously expect straight quotes from Williams' scores which wouldn't make Desplat any more distinct than an over-glorified orchestrator like Ken Thorne on Superman 2, a score that is emotionally and artistically bankrupt. Do perhaps I can suggest you start a new thread called "Desplat sucks" so those if us who like what he did can steer clear and all you naysayers can have a nice little pessimistic dialogue about him. To me, Desplat is one of the sole reasons I'm still even interested in film score collecting do obviously you know where I stand. Sorry my last post was written on my stupid iPod with it's dumbass spell correction..,

Still listening to this score. There's a lot to like. Cannot wait for the iTunes release with the extra tracks. I'm not forking $70 over for the Expanded Special Edition set because I just cannot rationalize it (although having an autographed music score is kinda cool). I really do like the Williams styled tracks whether it's the floating string harmonies under the Hedwig's theme quote or the staggered trumpet accents in Sky Battle. It's very Williamsy moreso than Desplat indicates in his interviews.

Not as of yet although this one might get a release. I post some music over at icompositions occasionally though.

Hopefully I can live up to all of the enthusiasm. Plowed through a bunch of cues over the weekend. Lotsa fun. Bill's stuff is amazing BTW. Really active and dynamic! You guys will love it.

The Cantina Band. Also Williams' use of suspension chords.

Okay, so I didn't really "steal" in the broad sense of the term. I used tenor sax in a "Catch Me if You Can" mode at the tail end of a cue I did that calls for a melancholic tone. I think some people forget the breadth of Williams' style and always think "Star Wars" or "Harry Potter" rather than Memoirs of a Geisha or The Terminal or Sabrina. Truth be told, there's a lot of jazz elements in Williams' music especially in his treatment of harmony. Herrmann used a lot of jazz extensions as well in his music even though he orchestrated for orchestra normally. Anyhow, sometimes one gets a greater appreciation for a composer when they are doing it themselves. The way Williams is able to punctuate every point and still make it musical sounding is honestly pretty amazing. The guy is just on another plateau when it comes to music for film.

I think he was just trying to illustrate a point.

You wouldn't be elated if Powell won? I sure would be! I would be ecstatic. I'm just trying to be realistic. Powell's done this kind of thing before (Happy Feet, Horton Hears A Who!) and has gone unnoticed. That's true but I think there's more attention toward HTTYD compared to the other films. I know it was reviewed a lot better. I dunno, he just might get a nom, and if that's so, he could pick up the win. Remember the members of the Academy in each dept nominate their fellow composers but it's the general Oscar members from all depts that vote for the win. I still don't agree with that when someone like Julia Roberts disrespects Bill Conti the way she did one year, clearly revealing the fact that she knows jack shit about film music or composers. Also, I think actors dislike composers because their music can take the attention away from those attention-hogs.