ASW

...how typical

Yes and the level of synchronization in that cue as seen in the film is incredible as well. Even without the mickeymousing, it boggles the mind how JW, and the orchestra, for that matter, was able to keep up with so many.

I'm taking an awful risk, Drax...this had better work

Yes. I believe the OST version of "The Never Feast" is also an alternate take of the film version. Another example pertaining to the topic: In Star Trek V, there's a cool passage in "A Busy Man" where Goldsmith puts in a brief quote of the Klingon motif leading into a grand statement of the God Theme as the camera closes in on a Bird of Prey on a screen on the Enterprise bridge as everyone is gazing in wonder at the main screen (sorry I'm afraid I don't have track times handy). Just the way he fit in the motif like that without really resorting to an overt shift in mood was brilliant.

You worry about those posters, I'll worry about the topic! (in seriousness...thanks for the replies, I was merely curious...seems like a lot of members had some cool anecdotes)

Cover me, Porkins!

the thread!....it's stopped!...I just lost my starboard engine

.....almost...there....

Thank you. I'm a fan of the movie, which definitely has something to do with my love of the score. Nice to know there are other fans out there I've seen it so many times but it's overdue for another viewing. Actually, I can also see Kline playing the role in a way similar to the way Williams tackled it as well. I guess that's why Spielberg chose Williams in the end (I believe Kline was first choice right?). About Raiders, I always thought that was the pre-Last Crusade Nazi theme, but never really arrived at a solid conclusion on that. In any case, it's awesome in the film and score. Also in Desert Chase, I love the statement of the B section of the Raiders' March after Indy has gained control of the truck (afer he and the truck driver share a laugh at the poor worker who lands on the windshield...then tosses him out as well). It's simply unbelievably cool. ASW

"Boy this party really died...."

Absolutely, if memory serves, the theme also makes an appearance in the Shadow of Peter Pan cue (after Hook sees that Peter Banning is too afraid of heights to save his kids), serving the same purpose as previously mentioned. Don't remember if that's actually in the final cut of the film, though. Nice signature btw, red_rabbit Cool! I know the cue and I've seen the film so many times (I guess I'm one of the few around who doesn't mind it too much ) but I never made that connection...will definitely look out for that next time I see/listen to it. I also love how, in that score, the Childhood and Peter Pan themes are developed. They're always hinted at but never get full, robust treatments until Peter's finally become Peter Pan again and remembered what it means to be child in the last few minutes of "Remembering Childhood". In the "Never Feast" cue, the Peter Pan theme (I think that's what it's supposed to represent) is just hinted at when he holds the sword after having cut up the flying coconut. He's just barely grasped who he used to be at that point, and JW captures that brilliantly. ASW I've actually just gotten into the Hook score more recently over the past couple of months. Aside from a great score (that goes without saying) I think it's amazing the potential that movie had. All the themes, the music, the director, the actors (although I would have liked to have seen Kevin Kline in the role), etc. But I watched the flick a few weeks ago and . . . it really wasn't all that good. It has a moment or two there, and again, potential that just skyrockets . . . but it's just kinda "meh." As for a leitmotif . . . I dunno, I suppose any time a theme is brought up during an action sequence. There are really too many to list. Hearing the Nazi theme during Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra is one of the first I heard when I was really young and thought to myself, ". . . I like it." Yes, I still enjoy the film today but (aside from the score as well as the positive qualities you mentioned) I'll admit that a lot of my enjoyment is more from its sentimental value since I sorta grew up watching it over and over. And I too would have liked to see Kline as Peter, although I quite like Robin Williams's performace. As for themes exploding into an action sequence... you gotta mention "The Big Rescue" from Superman... or perhaps the first (almost) full statement of the Raiders' March in "Desert Chase" (after that great fanfare when Indy's taken the horse)...or the opening of "Asteroid Field".... agh there really are too many to list ASW

Cool! I know the cue and I've seen the film so many times (I guess I'm one of the few around who doesn't mind it too much ) but I never made that connection...will definitely look out for that next time I see/listen to it. I also love how, in that score, the Childhood and Peter Pan themes are developed. They're always hinted at but never get full, robust treatments until Peter's finally become Peter Pan again and remembered what it means to be child in the last few minutes of "Remembering Childhood". In the "Never Feast" cue, the Peter Pan theme (I think that's what it's supposed to represent) is just hinted at when he holds the sword after having cut up the flying coconut. He's just barely grasped who he used to be at that point, and JW captures that brilliantly. ASW

That was the point! -Erik- aha glad to have the theory confirmed then. Yes there are a lot of really good statements of that theme in the Hoth cues. One favourite of mine is the one heard just before General Veers' AT-AT is about to fire on the shield generator (that really cool effects shot of it shooting down a passing snowspeeder). On the SE album it's at 11:14-11:40. I just love the strings in the back supporting the theme, the fast tempo, and that added note to the main melody before the antecedent of the theme (my musical vocabulary is probably lacking here ). I think it's looped a little in the film, though, but I could be wrong. And that bit in Ben Hur is kinda neat. It's been a while since I've seen the film and I don't have it on album, but I vaguely recall that. Yeah, it's a really nice moment, as is the bit preceding it where Fedora sees Indy running from the train. Williams's music just ups that moment a thousand notches with the march and that light-hearted brass passage leading back into the "First Adventure" motif as Indy runs to the house. yeah!...all that unreleased stuff in the First Adventure cue is fantastic. Also of note is the way JW hints at the theme when he picks up the whip for the first time. Shame it isn't available in a legit release. ASW

and what about rocketeer and Titanic ??????????? hummmm ... In the words of a certain Y-Wing pilot... "There's...too many of them!!" It's not my fault he does this! What from The Rocketeer does he rip off in Titanic? My mind's gone totally blank on that one. ASW well, as i know pretty well rocketeer, but almost never listened to Titanic, but i remember when watching the movie for the first time "hoooooo fuc*** bi**** that's a rocketeer tune !!!!!!!!" but i don't remember when , or which tune !! so we need to ask to someone else !! maybe it's on the extended edition of titanic released later after the official first release. That bit in 'Stealing the Enterprise' appears at 4:35-4:39ish. It appears throughout The Rocketeer, if I'm not mistaken. Is that the motif you also hear in the "Re-Entry and Splashdown" cue in Apollo 13 (around 2:52-3:02)? Come to think of it, that's also in Enemy at the Gates as well, isn't it? ASW

and what about rocketeer and Titanic ??????????? hummmm ... In the words of a certain Y-Wing pilot... "There's...too many of them!!" It's not my fault he does this! What from The Rocketeer does he rip off in Titanic? My mind's gone totally blank on that one. ASW

A bad movie doesn't necessarily have to be bad from a composer's point of view. Many of bad movies still function as frameworks for great scores. So regardless of whether a composer realises that a movie is bad or not (or needs "saving" or not), he might just be perfectly inspired by it. Well said. I think in that long interview Horner did with that online film music radio station (the really long candid one that stirred up a lot of controversy), he mentioned it isn't any help to him if the film isn't any good... so I suppose that's one composer for whom it's apparent when a film he's working on isn't that good. ASW

There's a brief idea in "Stealing the Enterprise" from ST III that is used throughout The Rocketeer... sorry I don't have track times as of yet

haha glad someone recognized it! I sorta meant instances where a leitmotif's use really vividly accentuated whatever it is it's supposed to represent or something that was happening on screen... but "The Land Race" is a fantastic track from a fine score, one that, alas, isn't discussed that often here. The use of the theme you mention is an awesome moment. Good mention! Another example I've thought of is in the unreleased music in Last Crusade, when Indy runs home after the chase on the train. There's a cool, quick statement of the Raiders' March heard when he runs inside and Indiana the dog looks up at him...I sometimes wonder if it's supposed to foreshadow the idea that Indy "is named after the dog"...but I could be overanalyzing. At any rate it's a great non-brassy/heroic statement of the theme. ASW, who feels a little lame that 2/3s of the posts in a topic that he started are his own

Is there a moment in a film score, Williams or otherwise, where you thought a leitmotif was used in a particularly vivid fashion that really carried the story forward? I'll start with an example of my own. The "No More Hook" cue from the expanded Hook opens with a sort of triumphant statement of the Lost Boys' theme as Peter leads them in a sort of victory dance around the fallen crocodile. Then as Peter sees his kids and realizes he "can't stay and play" and has to go home, JW puts in kind of "matured" version of the same theme (I'm not musically literate enough to describe the differences, but there's definitely some modulation and other mutation going on), which , I think represents well the idea that the lost boy in Peter has grown up. The realization is seen in Robin Williams' expression in that scene as well, I think, and the music reflects it really well. I may not be describing this that well but it's IMHO one of JW's finest moments. soo...if you have any comments or other examples in mind, please share ASW (formerly, elcbwan)

haha that's a great picture...I definitely have to try that. Interesting that he's not in the turtleneck!

how does one go about doing that?...do you have to arrange a meeting? or just hang around backstage after a concert? We arrived a few hours early for parking and to just hang out on the lawn at Blossom, and Williams happened to be rehearsing with the orchestra. We went down to get a closer look, where there were already a few people waiting in the seats. After a bit, the rehearsal ended and Williams came to the edge of the stage to sign autographs. So it was a pretty random, lucky occurrence! Wow! That's really cool! I might try that at the concert on the 23rd.. but I really don't know how I'll be able to work up the nerve to do it!

Wow his home address eh?...hope you get a reply soon! and thanks for trying to salvage the thread lol...although I too am enjoying reading the other stuff how does one go about doing that?...do you have to arrange a meeting? or just hang around backstage after a concert?

I once listened to this cue, along with "Nuclear Scam" while driving home from school.... it was a pretty cool experience but yes...it's an odd way to end the album

Well, I must say that in the past few years I've been reading these boards, I always enjoyed reading the threads like these that diverged from their original topics. Never thought I'd be starting one myself so soon after joining lol.... but the arguments have so far seemed more or less civil, which believe it or not I actually think is a positive quality that permeates this board as a whole, especially in comparison to other boards out there. A digression, to be sure, but certainly a cool discussion.

Yes, now that I think of it, nearly all of the Horner I listen to is pre-Titanic