Criticism needed, help apprciated :D

[KK 3,307]

Hey guys,

I’m really new around here, so I'm not sure if I should be posting this, I'll try anyways. I'm going to try and keep this story short (doubt I’ll succeed). A couple of months ago, I wrote a passage that was basically describing this LOTR-level kind of war. After reading it over a few times I decided it might be fun to compose a piece after it. Now I started, but I never really got to finish it and it dragged for months. It was a hassle because I wanted to finish it but never got the time. It happened to be that once in a while I would look back to the file and add a minute or two of music and it kept expanding that way. AT LAST, over the holidays, in all my frustration, I managed to get to the end! To try and get some worth out of this, I’d like to share it with you guys (pardon me for the self-promotion…but this stupid piece has been killing me).

http://soundcloud.co...larkk/the-storm

If you listen carefully, you can notice the stylistic differences. This is essentially a very rough copy. I just finished it recently and thought I'd share to get some feedback. The mixing has barely been touched, and a lot of parts can still use tons of work. So its incomplete, but I think I'm going to stay away from this piece for a bit...its given me enough headaches!

Now, before you listen, I’d like to point out that this is actually a leitmotif driven piece and you might not hear them all. Give it a shot and see what you can pick up on. If you want, I did stupidly write up a thematic analysis on it (how stupid is that?!). As you might see below, I tried to really pull a Howard Shore with this piece

THEMATIC ANALYSIS (don't read if you wish to keep your sanity)

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are 3 main themes. The first theme is the hero’s theme. The piece opens up with a solemn statement of this theme on the horns. Its simple in its progression but I made it like that so that its very malleable. If you notice carefully, this theme has many different variations and the theme is always constantly developing. There is the fanfare variation that heralds the arrival of the hero or some heroic action from the protagonist. This is heard in several moments on different such as the beginning on horns, 2:05 on the piccolo, 7:10 on trumpets, 8:06 full ensemble and its grand finale at the end which begins at 10:48. Most of the time this action variation is placed at the forefront of chaotic orchestral material, only at the end is it in its true heroic form (to show the victory of the hero). The most heroic and full statement of this theme is at 2:19. This part shows off the hero’s theme with the most flair and colour in its orchestrations. You also hear the B phrase of the hero theme at 2:34, however all this magic is shortlived before its drowned by chaos. There are only two other places that the B phrase of the hero theme shows up and that’s very briefly at 7:55 and then a more expanded hopeful version of the B phrase at 10:23 that leads into the final Hero fanfare. What I tried to do with this theme is really develop it throughout the piece to show how the hero is being changed by this massive war. In the beginning, you get the sense that the hero’s theme is a brief call. However in its more emotional renditions, it begins to expand, exploring the upper regions more. You’ll notice at 6:16 that a new dimension is added to the hero. There is a more introspective emotional variation to theme. He receives most fully expanded variation at the end where the music mourns for the hero and all that he has lost at around 9:29. This will eventually lead to the finale where the hero understands that sacrifice is necessary and he becomes the man he needs to be. I also tried to put tons of hints of the main theme everywhere. Shortened variations of the hero theme are the “staircase like” ascending and descending abbreviations of the theme. It’s the Hero’s action motif. It shows up briefly here and there. You first hear this action motif on the low and high woodwinds, chirping in the background at around 1:35-1:43 ish. This action motif also leads into the first emotional statement of the hero theme (and supports it in the background) at around 6:14 and onwards.

The next major theme is the theme for the villain. Now the passage didn’t exactly have ONE BIG villain. So his theme actually shows up the least out all 3 of the main themes. In fact, you don’t hear it till half way through the theme. The reason this villain receives the main theme is because he’s the most prominent of the villains. He is a dark, monstrous fiend who has quite a dark of sense of humour. So his theme premiers on a waltz like dance as he enters the field. It begins in very subdued, dark tones (with bass pizzicato rhythms and variations of the theme in the background) at around 3:09. The waltz expands to explosive heights at the man’s cruelty at around 4:44. Now from here, you only hear subtle hints of this villain’s theme because the war is not just about him. There are tons of other forces fighting here and music has to address all that. What you do hear instead are different appearances of the first 3 notes of this theme in multiple action variations along with other parts of theme sped up or slowed down. From as early as 5:20 to 5:31, you hear parts of the first three notes and the sections alternating the bass pizzicato rhythmic variation of the theme (the stuff you heard in the beginning of the waltz). The first three notes of this villain theme becomes a useful action 3 note phrase that acts as a great transition as well. With that we are lead into an explosion of the war theme (more on that later), but if you listen to the background, you’ll hear the woodwinds taking a very slow variation of the theme (followed by the cellos doing the same thing at 5:45). And then at 5:51, the pizzicato strings you hear are actually playing a variation of the 3 note phrase from this theme. Even at 6:11, the 3 note phrase gets passed around the orchestra, so I tried to give it as much showtime as I could without the theme taking the spotlight.

Finally, we come to arguably the most important theme. Although the passage stands more for the hero’s personal journey, I tried to make the war itself a metaphor of something more. It stands for the storm in society. The chaos that is prevalent in each one of us. That’s why the villain theme can’t be prevalent, because this is more about chaos. And so the piece needs a main theme for the war. This comes in very early in the piece at around 0:54. This theme receives quite a bit of development with explosive statements like 5:31 and 7:26. I also gave it some background time where it plays as the chaotic noise behind other themes. For instance at 2:51 , as the hero theme is playing out, variations of the war theme are playing underneath. The same variation receives a growling like rendition at 6:45 to show that the war is not over yet. There was a part in the passage where a tribal folk joined the war and I thought I should musically represent that. I didn’t come up with a new motif or theme but I actually came up with a really ornamented variation on the trumpet at 5:51. With pizzicato strings and tambourine rhythms, I hope to add a whole new flavor that made it sound like a different motif but it was really just the war theme sneakily showing up in different forms.

Very closely related to the war theme is the most important secondary motif. I call it the dread motif. It is a rising four chord (or note) progression that is heard almost right at the beginning (after the hero theme’s first statement) at 0:25. This motif plays whenever there is eminent danger approaching. This is a very important progression as it is one of the principle ideas in the passage. In fact, the war theme is built off these progressions. You can even hear this progression acting as the harmony of many of the statements of the war theme. This motif shows up a lot like at 6:56 with pizzicato strings and with full ensemble at 7:00. In fact, this motif is what concludes the war. The battle finally ends at 8:20 with the dissonant pounding. At that moment, every section of the orchestra is playing either one or more notes of the dread motif (to show the end of the war). The final secondary motif is another action motif that shows up here and there. Its an echoing like motif that heralds danger and first shows up at 1:04 and in other places like 7:07 and less noticeable at 7:37 (this is a more expanded version).

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hopefully all that wasn't too much of a burden. Oh well, its not like anyone will bother to read all this stuff, I mean its all nonsense really. The only reason I’m sharing this is because its been a really pain in the derriere to compose. I don’t have the fancy equipment everyone else here does, so when I compose a piece, I use Notion 3 (the notation software program) and have to insert every single note by hand (including all the runs). So its very painful stuff. That and the mediocre samples at Notion really pale compared to some of the really authentic stuff used by composers here. Just a fair warning, there are glitches in a lot of places (like the terribly mediocre attempt at a flute solo…it starts with a glitch chord somehow).

Most people will skip over this (and rightly so). I really feel bad about this extensive post…oh well, hope you get something out of it.

Sorry for burdening you with this little nightmare of mine! Criticism and feedback is welcomed…a lot!

Thanks again for putting up with me guys. I know I can be annoying sometimes

- KK

[Incanus 5,715]

It is a pretty impressive piece KK. After one listen I can't give much constructive criticism on the technical side but in form and style it sounded to me like a mix of Howard Shore's and James Horner's sensibilities. This could sound pretty wonderful if played live and all fleshed out for an orchestra.

Keep up the good work.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does it have to be informed criticism?

[ComposerEthan 8]

Very nice! Once I get home later, I'll analyze it more, but very good job! I'm impressed at the length..and I thought my "Flight" took me a long time.(You should also tell me what you thought of my Flight, composer to composer. )

I'm guessing that there are LOTR score influences (still haven't seen those score snippets you sent me, I just woke up)?

Overall, I love the development of the themes (which is my emphasis). Great Job again!

[gkgyver 1,645]

And I interrupted my Skyward Sword listening session for *this*?

Just joking

I really love the theme starting at 2:20.

Maybe I'd include some more dynamic and tempo variations, but hearing this, I once again ask myself: why is every poor bastard out there (no offense KK), able to produce better music than many high-esteemed film composers?

[David Coscina 3]

And I interrupted my Skyward Sword listening session for *this*?

Just joking

I really love the theme starting at 2:20.

Maybe I'd include some more dynamic and tempo variations, but hearing this, I once again ask myself: why is every poor bastard out there (no offense KK), able to produce better music than many high-esteemed film composers?

Most likely because they don't have directors and producers telling them every two seconds to change something or get rid of the melody or "make it sound like Social Network". They have more freedom to write whatever they want.

[KK 3,307]

It is a pretty impressive piece KK. After one listen I can't give much constructive criticism on the technical side but in form and style it sounded to me like a mix of Howard Shore's and James Horner's sensibilities. This could sound pretty wonderful if played live and all fleshed out for an orchestra.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks Incanus! Really appreciate the feedback! I've spotted some of the Horner sensibilities now Now, if only I could afford a full orchestral recording session

Does it have to be informed criticism?

Nope. Informed criticism is overrated anyways

Very nice! Once I get home later, I'll analyze it more, but very good job! I'm impressed at the length..and I thought my "Flight" took me a long time.(You should also tell me what you thought of my Flight, composer to composer. )

I'm guessing that there are LOTR score influences (still haven't seen those score snippets you sent me, I just woke up)?

Overall, I love the development of the themes (which is my emphasis). Great Job again!

Thanks Ethan! Yes, I accidentally stumbled into LOTR territory in terms of sound (I didn't mean to though, odd... ). And tell me where I can find this "Flight" piece of yours!?

And I interrupted my Skyward Sword listening session for *this*?

Just joking

I'm going through BloodBoal's many initiation clips into the Zelda's music. I have quite a response coming up for you Zelda fans

I really love the theme starting at 2:20.

Maybe I'd include some more dynamic and tempo variations, but hearing this, I once again ask myself: why is every poor bastard out there (no offense KK), able to produce better music than many high-esteemed film composers?

Thanks for the feedback Georg. Dynamic change is probably something I should work on, as you said. As for your question, I think David answers it pretty well, more directors are suppressing great talents, its a shame really.

[indy4 155]

Nice job!

[KK 3,307]

Thanks indy4. Its somewhat gratifying to know that some people actually enjoyed this piece. Finally getting to finish a rough copy of this was itself a nightmare (it came to such a point that I just wanted the damn thing to be over). I was worried it was pointless though as I'm not privileged with the great samples and compositional skills others here have. Its just good to know it wasn't all a waste

Thanks again for all the feedback guys!