6 replies to this topic

[Farawyn]

This may have been done before, but I think it would be interesting to discuss the exact meaning of these essential words. I personnally always use the word "theme" when what I hear is "whistleable"... Yet does "Buckbeak's theme" permit this, as it has been pointed out in a previous thread ? Another important defining trait of the theme might be the fact that it follows a certain evolution (such as the Raiders theme) before returning to an initial phase. Yet this too has its limits. The "theme" from Minority Report has some evolving musical elements in it... yet also stays in its initial form, "changing" with a crescendo. Should we call it in this case a motif, or a melody ?
JW's music is filled with themes, motifs and melodies, as well, of course, as downright atonal music. The problem maybe is that he builds motives (the "crystal motif) out of other motives (the "Krypton motif)... How would you define these words ?

[Jeshopk]

For me:
Theme is anything more than a few notes that identifies with a major element of the film. QuiGon's Theme, although not used much is still a theme to me. "Theme" can also be a recognisable piece of music that represents the film. Often a concertized version, like the Imperial March.

Motif is a couple notes, like JAWS or the 4 note menacing dinosaur thing. Or the descending 4 note Sleepers "Hell's Kitchen" motif. However, with JAWS, because it was turned into an opening piece of music to start the film, with the motifs overlapping and forming soething more complex, I would call that a Theme too. Maybe that could be said for Minority Report.

A leitmotif is just a theme that is quoted many times in different forms within larger pieces of music. I figure it has to go through many permutations to be a leitmotif, such as Yoda's theme. The general idea is to be strict wth its usage, but Williams often mixes it up, such as usig Leia's theme for Ben's death. No clearcut answer there.

Melody just means one musical line. JW often has 2 melodies at once (a counter melody). Anything more than just block chords or arpeggiated intervals could, I suppose, be considered a melody by someone.

[robthehand]

OK, these are my own definitions, can't be sure they're 100% accurate:

Theme = a single (but complete) tune/melody. Could stand alone as piece of music in its own right.

Motif = like a shorter theme, usually only a few bars, could not stand alone as a piece of music in its own right.

Leitmotif = a motif that applies to a specific thing, usually a character.

[Incanus]

These are hard questions to answer as we all have our own opinion about these terms.

Leitmotiv (a leading motif) is a musical identification for a particular mood, object, character, place etc. It does not have to be a long lined melody but it can vary from few notes (or just a chord) to a full fledged complex variation and development of a particular musical phrase.

Motif is a basic musical building block, a phrase that is repeated in a work. This is not strictly a film music term but also a general term in orchestral music.

Theme is close to leitmotiv and it could be said that they are one and same in film music. Theme is something more elaborate than a motif but it usually functions like leitmotiv being attached to a particular thing in a film.

[Marian Schedenig]

Really, these are pretty much defined as musical terms. I won't guarantee that these descriptions are 100% accurate, but they should pretty much correct.

A motif is a brief, recognisable sequence of notes. For example, the two-note shark bit or the three notes for the Philosopher's Stone are motifs.

A theme is a longer musical phrase, often consisting of shorter motifs (i.e. the melody of a theme can be broken down to melodic fragments).

A leitmotif is a motif or theme associated with "something", i.e. a character or situation. The common "theme from X" or "X's theme" actually uses the term "theme" as a replacement for "leitmotif" and not in its original musical meaning.

As for atonality, that's an unrelated subject. To my knowledge, the most atonal series of notes can still be a motif or theme, when used as such.

[king mark]

I think a theme is more complex and can be expanded into a concert version.Leia's Theme Fawkes the Phoenix,Yoda's Theme.The concert versions we all seem to want are from themes:Double Trouble,The Trade Federation March...

Motif is more simple like the raptor motif in Jurassic Park.I think short stuff like the Rebel Fanfare is also a motif



K.M.

[tuneman_21]

Ok, here's the techinical definition.

Theme - some type of musical statement. It can be as simple as two notes or as complex as multiple bars. It's an all encompassing term, much like Christian is an all encompassing term for any who's a Christ believer. They do not necessarly have to be "whistleable" or what we call "tuneful." J.S. Bach was not "tuneful." You can't whistle his music - well, you could, but you'ld be nuts to do so.

Motif - the technical "music speak" word for theme. Motif comes from the Ancient Greek word for motion.

Leitmotif - a motif/theme that serves a specific function in a movie/tv/opera/play or other programmatic work. It can musically represent a person, place, thing or concept.

If we were to be technically proper when we talk about "themes" in regards to Star Wars, Harry Potter, et al, we should say things like "The Force leitmotif" or "The Emperor's Leitmotif" or "Vader's Leitmotif". Is it necessary to do that, no. Theme works just fine.