.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[gkgyver 1,647]

It's my favourite track next to The World Is Ahead, so ...

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

I love it, it was my first highlight.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,390]

It's good, it's very good actually.

It's a little behind the really awesome action stuff from LOTR though.

More then a little maybe.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

I think its better than a lot of the LOTR stuff..

or maybe its just the fact that it feels more new, after listening to the LOTR scores over and over....

[Jay 46,245]

I like this track a lot - it's very good. However, I think I prefer Warg-Scouts to it.

Warg-Scouts is more focused, while Out Of The Frying Pan is a bit all over the place

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Warg-Scouts doesnt seem to have as much tension though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,390]

What is very noticeable on both those tracks is that the "Plan 9" theme really isn't used at all

Imagine The Bridge of Khazad Dum without The Fellowship Theme?

Shore uses that theme quite a few times throughout the score, but never weaves it in as much as he did the Fellowship, Rohan or Gondor themes.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Probably because it is not "his" theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,390]

I realize that. I just think the difference is remarkable.

[Quintus 6,499]

It's an okay/serviceable cue in an otherwise forgettable score, too reliant on past material. The LPO makes it seem more interesting than it really is.

I'd rather listen to TLW's The Hunt than this.

[Jay 46,245]

past material? in "Out Of The Frying Pan"? What are you talking about?

[gkgyver 1,647]

He said the score as a whole relies too much on it.

Which I don't understand, but ... well.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

So Quint, you think Shore should have started entirely from scratch? new themes for past characters and everything?

(I mean seriously, almost all of the "reused" material is themes for characters/cultures in the LOTR trilogy)

[Quintus 6,499]

I'd have preferred it if, like Williams' Star Wars, Shore had leant on established material and weaved it in where necessary rather than being almost completely reliant upon it.

[Jay 46,245]

You're talking about the score as a whole, right? Cause there is no past material in "Out Of The Frying Pan"

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

So, what parts did you think was unnessecary?

My Dear Frodo?

Old Friends?

The Adventure Begins?

The Hidden Valley?

The White Council?

Over Hill?

Riddles in the Dark?

Brass Buttons?

A Very Unrespectable Hobbit?

Thats only 9 tracks from the SE OST that old material really appears in.

I'd have preferred it if, like Williams' Star Wars, Shore had leant on established material and weaved it in where necessary rather than being almost completely reliant upon it.

Are you referring to the prequels? or ESB and ROTJ?

[Jay 46,245]

Faleel is right and Quint is wrong in this case. ON ALBUM, he uses LOTR themes about as often as TTT used FOTR themes, or ROTK used FOTR/TTT themes, or TESB used SW themes, etc etc.

If you go by the film itself though than it's a different story, but that's hardly Shore's fault

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Out Of The Frying-Pan at least has that heroïc fanfare, which I like more and more everytime I listen to it.

I love you.......

.....Yuck!

[Jilal 681]

I rate it 4 stars. It's awesome, but IMNSHO, not quite as ingenious as tracks like for example "The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm" with the multi-layered choir and "big" brass orchestration (not to mention the menacing Balrog motif) or "The Battle of the Hornburg" and "Theoden Rides Forth" (the latter -in my opinion- stands out as one of the best action cues in the trilogy).

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Also The Hobbit has like 21 obvious new themes.

[Quintus 6,499]

I've gone past caring who's fault it is now where details and anecdotes are concerned. All I know is the score both during the movie and away from it do not stand out to me. But yeah, in the film, hearing the Shire/Hobbit themes for the umpteenth time bores me to tears, as does the rest of the played out LotR inserts.

But I don't mean to hijack the thread with that broader discussion, since this was supposed to be about a single cue.

You're talking about the score as a whole, right? Cause there is no past material in "Out Of The Frying Pan"

Even so, it's overly familiar as is.

but IMNSHO, not quite as ingenious as tracks like for example "The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm" with the multi-layered choir and "big" brass orchestration (not to mention the menacing Balrog motif) or "The Battle of the Hornburg" and "Theoden Rides Forth" (the latter -in my opinion- stands out as one of the best action cues in the trilogy).

Pretty much.

If Out of the Frying Pan is the best the score has to offer and the closest to that legendary stuff we're gonna get then that is indeed why I find it disappointing and forgettable.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Even so, it's overly familiar as is.

So.... The Hobibt AUJ sucks, because Shore kept the sound and themes that he established for Characters and Cultures/Peoples and therefore it sounds too much like LOTR (which I don't really see BTW, if anything it sounds more like Hugo with some LOTR themes)

[Quintus 6,499]

Even so, it's overly familiar as is.

So....

KOTCS sucks because it doesnt sound like TLC, TOD ROTLA.

That's not what I said.

And for a start, Williams/Spielberg doesn't lay on the Raiders March every time Indiana Jones opens his trap (mouth) or wheel out the B-theme in patronising fashion each time he shares a moment with Mutt.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

edited then.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,390]

I think its better than a lot of the LOTR stuff..

or maybe its just the fact that it feels more new, after listening to the LOTR scores over and over....

Actually, I'd put it above a lot of action material from LOTR (such as The Wolves Of Isengard, the Watcher's attack, etc...)

That is not what I mean.

If Frying Pan is the TOP action cue from The Hobbit, then I compare it to the TOP action cues from the LOTR films (Khazad Dum, The End Of All Things, Forth Eorlingas etc etc...)

Compared to those Frying Pan doesn't really add up.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Is The End of All things really a action cue? is it not more a dramatic/finale cue?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,390]

Sigh....

[Jay 46,245]

Actually, I'd put it above a lot of action material from LOTR (such as The Wolves Of Isengard, the Watcher's attack, etc...)

OK wow, you literally just picked 2 of my favorite action cues from LOTR. I love those! And strongly prefer them to OOTFP.

I think what makes you say that are the numerous edits in the track. They're too obvious in my opinion, they "break" the flow of the music.

Well, I dunno. I just mean that Warg-Scouts is fairly focused, and has balance of doom, suspense, and finally resolution. OOTFP has SO MUCH going on - drumming, mickey-mousing bits, choir, suspense, fanfares, etc.... it's a lot, and it doesn't seem to flow well to me, seems to somewhat abruptly jump from idea to idea at times. As to opposed to for example Khazad-Dun, which is an extremely elegant 8 minutes of music that flows beautifully. Maybe this is due to editing; I have no idea where the edits are if there are any, I haven't examined it that closely.

Out Of The Frying-Pan at least has that heroïc fanfare, which I like more and more everytime I listen to it.

Ditto! I didn't even notice it the first time few times I listened really, but once I paid more attention I grew to love that fanfare, and love it more every time!

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[gkgyver 1,647]

I think its better than a lot of the LOTR stuff..

or maybe its just the fact that it feels more new, after listening to the LOTR scores over and over....

>Actually, I'd put it above a lot of action material from LOTR (such as The Wolves Of Isengard, the Watcher's attack, etc...)

That is not what I mean.

If Frying Pan is the TOP action cue from The Hobbit, then I compare it to the TOP action cues from the LOTR films (Khazad Dum, The End Of All Things, Forth Eorlingas etc etc...)

Compared to those Frying Pan doesn't really add up.

Do you also consider that The Hobbit doesn't have scenes of nearly the same scope as the LotR scenes mentioned above, dear Dutchman? And therefore doesn't lend itself as well to such epic scoring?

There simply isn't anything in AUJ that would justify something in the remote vicinity of choral orgasms like End Of All Things or Khazad-Dum. You apparently have wrong expectations.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Brass Buttons is the closest.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Indeed. And it shows Shore still has the knack for motifs and themes that are short and deceptively simple, but stick in your mind and elevate the score.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

There is nothing special about this track.

Everything in it is done better in another track in the rest of the album.

The fanfare towards the latter third is great though.

[Quintus 6,499]

I think its better than a lot of the LOTR stuff..

or maybe its just the fact that it feels more new, after listening to the LOTR scores over and over....

>Actually, I'd put it above a lot of action material from LOTR (such as The Wolves Of Isengard, the Watcher's attack, etc...)

That is not what I mean.

If Frying Pan is the TOP action cue from The Hobbit, then I compare it to the TOP action cues from the LOTR films (Khazad Dum, The End Of All Things, Forth Eorlingas etc etc...)

Compared to those Frying Pan doesn't really add up.

Do you also consider that The Hobbit doesn't have scenes of nearly the same scope as the LotR scenes mentioned above, dear Dutchman? And therefore doesn't lend itself as well to such epic scoring?

There simply isn't anything in AUJ that would justify something in the remote vicinity of choral orgasms like End Of All Things or Khazad-Dum. You apparently have wrong expectations.

The filmic imagery, its quality and the narrative shouldn't really have any bearing on musical sweep, its execution and integrity. Otherwise Jerry Goldsmith would've been beyond fucked.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Shore does not totally agree with you, he has said various things like "I could'nt have used....in fellowship" meaning that the time was not right yet for certain things (sort of like how there is no Hybridization of material in FOTR)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,390]

Like Jason said, structurally it's a bit of a hodge podge, I prefer an action cue with a clear narrative line, telling a story.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

Well, I think its unfair, comparing two microedited tracks and saying one cue is more hodge podge than the other.(BTW mickey mousing? where?)

[Quintus 6,499]

Like Jason said, structurally it's a bit of a hodge podge, I prefer an action cue with a clear narrative line, telling a story.

Same. But not all the time.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[crocodile 9,724]

I myself love the track very much.

It's interesting that this score is getting such a wide range of different reactions and does divide even the fans of the trilogy to this extent. I would have imagine something like that happen after 20-25 years (as was with the prequels) or something but it took only 10. Interesting. Can't agree it lacks "musical sweep, it's execution and integrity". And I'm not even a massive Howard Shore fan. But then that might be why.

Karol

[gkgyver 1,647]

The filmic imagery, its quality and the narrative shouldn't really have any bearing on musical sweep, its execution and integrity. Otherwise Jerry Goldsmith would've been beyond fucked.

That's not the point.

Stefan compared the impact of the climactic pieces of LotR with the final cues of An Unexpected Journey, which is of course ridiculous. Or would you compare Amon Hen with The fucking End Of All Things in terms of "sweep"? The climactic pieces climbed in scope and "sweep" from movie to movie, and they will do so in this trilogy too.

The filmic imagery, quality and narrative don't have anything to do with musical sweep??? They have everything to do with it. You can't have 100 voices, paired with 20 brass players shout apocalyptic lines in Oh Fortuna manner, when all that happens is a group of dwarves is being chased up a tree by wolves.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

don't get howie angry:

[Quintus 6,499]

The filmic imagery, its quality and the narrative shouldn't really have any bearing on musical sweep, its execution and integrity. Otherwise Jerry Goldsmith would've been beyond fucked.

That's not the point.

Stefan compared the impact of the climactic pieces of LotR with the final cues of An Unexpected Journey, which is of course ridiculous. Or would you compare Amon Hen with The fucking End Of All Things in terms of "sweep"? The climactic pieces climbed in scope and "sweep" from movie to movie, and they will do so in this trilogy too.

The filmic imagery, quality and narrative don't have anything to do with musical sweep??? They have everything to do with it. You can't have 100 voices, paired with 20 brass players shout apocalyptic lines in Oh Fortuna manner, when all that happens is a group of dwarves is being chased up a tree by wolves.

That wasn't what I was getting at. Hence why I added the Goldsmith part, in the hope it would help make my point.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,390]

Jerry could write really evocative music for very mundane films or scenes.

Howie is not that good!

[gkgyver 1,647]

In Middle-earth, he is.

[Quintus 6,499]

In LotR he was.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Still is.

[Rachael Foley 10,164]

I just think its his post-Hugo style, plus the new mixers/recording engineers that are throwing LOTR music fans for a loop.