Ludwig

I share Quint's desire for a reworked main title theme for the new SW film. But while Hollywood has always been about recycling what has worked in the past, there are times when a reconception of an iconic theme has been done. Take Hedwig's Theme. The first three Potter films basically have the same version of it (with minor alterations). But by Goblet of Fire, it became much darker (@ 0:55 below): That said, there was more of an impetus to change things here: not only was there a new composer (Doyle), but the Potter stories are all about coming of age and so incorporate change in their very material. If a different composer had signed on to do the new SW films, we'd have a better chance of hearing a reworking. But even then, they'd still stick with the good old original, especially given that Star Wars is not a franchise about change the way Potter is.

Lol - while I generally agree that "theme eligibility", as Quint calls it, is pushed somewhat too far, it does reveal two things about the way these scores are constructed that differs from other scores. First, it shows that seemingly incidental aspects like accompaniment figures and short motifs return in the score and are therefore important as narrative devices. This is quite unlike other scores, where traditional themes usually fulfill this role. Second, it emphasizes the importance of the direct repetition of material in the score, to the extent that almost all the material in the score recurs at some point. This is more of a patchwork style of composing than the more traditional through-composed score, and it's highly unusual for an action-fantasy film. Think of how often the History of the Ring theme, for example, returns in precisely the way it is heard in the prologue - not just the melody, but the accompaniment, harmony, instrumentation, absolutely everything. By contrast, I can't recall the main theme from Star Wars recurring even once the way it does in the intro in any of the films. Its a different style of composition from a different kind of composer. There is a bit more fluidity in Shore's work than you give him credit for. And certain themes like the History of the Ring do recur in similar guise for specific reasons but by no means stay static throughout in form or orchestration. That is over simplifying Shore's approach. But it is certainly not quite how Williams or Goldsmith would do it. Of course he does engage in thematic transformation according to the developing narrative. I did not mean to imply that Shore only works in this patchwork way, only that it's much more a part of his style than other composers. Even so, this patchwork approach is no criticism on my part. I only point it out to show its difference from other scores.

Lol - while I generally agree that "theme eligibility", as Quint calls it, is pushed somewhat too far, it does reveal two things about the way these scores are constructed that differs from other scores. First, it shows that seemingly incidental aspects like accompaniment figures and short motifs return in the score and are therefore important as narrative devices. This is quite unlike other scores, where traditional themes usually fulfill this role. Second, it emphasizes the importance of the direct repetition of material in the score, to the extent that almost all the material in the score recurs at some point. This is more of a patchwork style of composing than the more traditional through-composed score, and it's highly unusual for an action-fantasy film. Think of how often the History of the Ring theme, for example, returns in precisely the way it is heard in the prologue - not just the melody, but the accompaniment, harmony, instrumentation, absolutely everything. By contrast, I can't recall the main theme from Star Wars recurring even once the way it does in the intro in any of the films. Its a different style of composition from a different kind of composer.

I had a listen to the cue and got a slightly different transcription: This is definitely polytonal. The persistent bass ostinato suggests C minor as you said and the upper voices are clearly in D major. A few things to point out: - Notice that Bernstein is careful to choose notes for the ostinato that are NOT in the key of D major, so the clash of keys is clear. - Notice also that Bernstein ensures that E natural sounds in the upper voices several times in contrast to the ostinato's E-flat, again clarifying the polytonal character of the cue - The top staff has what are called "horn 5ths", which essentially sound notes of the harmonic series in consonant intervals that outline I-V-I progressions - this was a common feature of military music and so has retained that association through classical music and into film music - Note the parallelism at the end of the cue in the horns (it trails off into dialogue and is hard to hear after that), still against the persistent bass ostinato So if you're looking for compositional tricks to add to "the bag", one could sum up this effective cue through the following techniques: - ostinato - acts more like a pedal point on C - polytonality - largely 3rds above the ostinato/pedal C, creates tension through dissonance, but has a hopeful quality with the soft 3rds - parallelism - major triads above the ostinato/pedal C, again tense but hopeful (compare with Williams' typical parallelism in MINOR triads) - horn 5ths - for the military character

The fact is that no one has done in-depth musicological work on Williams' music, and while there will always be some things about music that remain ineffable, there is a vast difference between pretending one can explain every note of a Williams cue and providing a mere glimpse of some of a cue's workings. We analysts on this board are all in the latter camp. I'd rather have this small amount of analysis than none at all since 99% of a great piece of music can be explained with music theory. The other 1% is magic. And we're nowhere near that 99%, so we don't need your pity just yet.

I'd be wary of calling emotional qualities of music "innate." Well, to most filmgoing audiences, the kinds of musical associations Williams draws on are fairly ingrained in Western culture. So, true, they're not innate from a strictly objective point of view, but I would think something like trumpets blaring out major chords the way Williams does here are awfully hard for most Western ears to hear as anything but heroic. Perhaps "cultured associations" would be more to the point, but not nearly as catchy.

A marvellous passage. Leading up to these chords is a pedal point on B, which, together with the driving rhythm and general minor-key sound, lends the music a constant intensity and negative emotion appropriate to the scene. The first four of those five chords derive from a combination of two whole tone scales (follow any single voice in the parallelism and you'll see what I mean), scales that naturally create a feeling of unease due to having no tonal center. On the other hand, all five of those chords are major chords, so they have a positive sound as well. It's as though the music is saying, "there's a chance the rebels could escape, but it could fail at any moment". The fifth of these chords breaks the whole tone pattern and starts to sound slightly more functional - as though the rebels are about to have the upper hand (for the moment!). Finally, as the rebels enter hyperspace, the music explodes onto that triumphant chord, (what else?) a B major chord, thus returning to the B that led up to the passage with another positive emotion and giving the music a sense of finality, stability, and even heroism with the heavy brass scoring. As usual, Williams draws on several of music's innate qualities at once to express the emotions of the scene. And that's what's so great about his music - you don't have to know anything about music theory or composition to "get" it. By understanding music so incredibly well, he ensures that anyone will understand exactly what's going on emotionally in a scene. Sheer brillian so the " Bb, Ab , C and F# chords belong to the first whole tone scale and the Eb and B belong to the second ? is this how you are hearing this ? x On second thought, one probably hears the passage as a whole tone bass line harmonized with parallel major chords, as shown below (but what I suggested before was that the bass and tenor lines derive from one whole tone scale and the alto from the other, which is another possible breakdown):

A marvellous passage. Leading up to these chords is a pedal point on B, which, together with the driving rhythm and general minor-key sound, lends the music a constant intensity and negative emotion appropriate to the scene. The first four of those five chords derive from a combination of two whole tone scales (follow any single voice in the parallelism and you'll see what I mean), scales that naturally create a feeling of unease due to having no tonal center. On the other hand, all five of those chords are major chords, so they have a positive sound as well. It's as though the music is saying, "there's a chance the rebels could escape, but it could fail at any moment". The fifth of these chords breaks the whole tone pattern and starts to sound slightly more functional - as though the rebels are about to have the upper hand (for the moment!). Finally, as the rebels enter hyperspace, the music explodes onto that triumphant chord, (what else?) a B major chord, thus returning to the B that led up to the passage with another positive emotion and giving the music a sense of finality, stability, and even heroism with the heavy brass scoring. As usual, Williams draws on several of music's innate qualities at once to express the emotions of the scene. And that's what's so great about his music - you don't have to know anything about music theory or composition to "get" it. By understanding music so incredibly well, he ensures that anyone will understand exactly what's going on emotionally in a scene. Sheer brilliance.

I have access and have just glanced through it. It's a dissertation for a Doctor of Arts, which seems to have been a music degree in composition. Essentially it's written by a composer who has found inspiration in so called "third stream" music, i.e., a fusion of classical and jazz. And he takes Escapades as a model to demonstrate what can be done with the style, then shows how he himself has used the same techniques in a work of his own. The dissertation is not primarily an analysis. Its purpose is to advocate third stream music as a viable option to contemporary concert-hall composers, so most of its content consists of arguments for it and defending it from criticism. Because of this, the analysis of the Williams work is on the short side and really only gives surface details like some jazz chord symbols, orchestrations, and rhythmic motifs. Which is fine, but it's not the kind of in-depth treatment on Williams many of us crave. So the door to academic work on Williams remains wide open. Hopefully more will choose to walk through it...

Happy Birthday, Steven. And a big thank you for giving Williams such great material to score for all these years.

And that could be provided by Scorepedia. So you then say that...

I asked something along these lines before in this thread, and Uni had this to say: After that, I was convinced of Scorepedia's merits, so I'm all for the project.

Funny you mention the uplifting feeling - the keys of this opening literally rise up in a series of 5ths (B minor, F# minor, C major [diminished 5th], then G major), ratcheting up the energy with each step. This is a perfect example of what I love about Williams' music - you don't have to struggle to feel what he's getting at. The musical devices are used so adeptly that the feeling and imagery of the music jump out at you fully formed.

Your book would be a great resource even without an interview. Besides, even if you manage to get one after the book is published, there's always room for a second edition! Do you have a rough timeframe, for the book or is it too hard to tell at the moment?

A follow-up to: Richards, Mark, The Music of the Original Star Wars Trilogy: An Analytical Approach.

Hello again, tenaira. I wondered what had happened to you, so it's good to see you back. Here's what I can suggest that does exist: - Buhler, "Star Wars, Myth, and Music" in Music and Cinema (good analytical chapter) - Kalinak, Settling the Score, as Thor mentioned (analysis of ESB) - Larsen, Film Music (discusses some Star Wars) - Cooke, A History of Film Music (some biography and analysis) - Buhler, Neumeyer, and Deemer, Hearing the Movies (analysis of Catch Me If You Can) - Bazelon, Notes on Film Music (intriguing interview with JW pre-Star Wars) - Brown, Overtones and Undertones (bits and pieces throughout the book) - Karlin and Wright, On the Track (bits and pieces of JW score analysis) - Hickman, Reel Music (chapter on E.T., only a little musical analysis) - also check out Frank Lehman's dissertation, "Reading Tonality Through Film" - he's a very astute scholar and musician, and a great writer to boot I'm with you in saying that there's a great need for more literature on Williams. I for one am doing what I can - see my blog for several analyses of Williams themes (http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/series/john-williams-themes/) Good luck with your PhD! It'll be great to have more academic work on Williams so that when we look for literature on him, we can finally turn this: into this:

A new great chord to add to the list from The Book Thief - at 1:05 (but listen to the whole segment from 0:55). http://youtu.be/Au8iyNFhLX8 It's the good, old Neapolitan or "flat II" chord, which is a major ("hopeful") chord in a minor ("hopeless") key. Not only that, but a flat scale degree is generally a sign of something tragic, so building a major chord on it is an ironic twist on the untainted "happy" sound of major. The perfect choice for a film about finding something positive in a dire situation. So simple, but extremely effective.

This cue certainly qualifies. It uses a lot of what I noted above in (1) - chromatic neighbors to chord notes. The cue is basically in B major, and it flirts with the notes of its tonic chord, B-D#-F# by using the notes just above or just below these ones. So at first, that two-note motive that appears overtop the pedal starts on F# then drops over an octave down to E# (or F). The F comes back several times as a dissonance over the B (or even B major chord) and is sometimes coupled with a prominent C over the same for a biting crunch to the sound. This probably describes it better than using set classes since this cue's all about those chromatic neighbors to chord notes.

Yes, that's the question we've been grappling with, deciding how best to describe these "in-between" type passages. The problem is that they don't seem to fit entirely the tonal or atonal camp but, in a very convincing way, combine both! Excellent - thank you. This does indeed fit the bill for what we're after, and is more developed as you say. I haven't studied it in enormous detail yet, but there are two things I would offer here as possibilities for understanding these passages: 1) It sometimes seems in passages like this that Williams is adding thorns to a basic sonority with semitonal dissonance. "Bristling", you might call it. Like at the beginning of the cue, we have a sustained C while "shivers" in the winds and harp dance around the C with figures using the notes Db, C, and B. 2) The figures sometimes seem to retain constant pitch-classes (i.e., have the same notes). That Db-C-B cell returns in the synth celeste as a repeated wavering figure (though it's extended down to A# as well). It also comes back in the harp as quick gestures, now as C-Db-B.

I considered that myself, but I'm not sure it would explain much about how we hear the passage. In other words, is it possible to hear the tertian harmony as tertian harmony? The Ebm chord, for example is blurred by the dyad G-A underneath it from the start, to which a sustained C# is added a couple of beats later. You might say we have a polytonal chord of A7/C# + Ebm, which is then blurred further by the addition of D-F#-F in the same register as the Ebm chord. But that's probably a stretch since it doesn't sound the least bit tonal. Polytonality should probably have some recognizable tertian sounds to be heard as such, shouldn't it? Just listen to the opening of the cue: To me it sounds closer to Webern-esque dissonant set manipulation than Prokofiev-like polytonality. But if you have a specific Prokofiev piece in mind, please share!

It's a gorgeously achieved climax. It's that lovely bass line going B-Bb-A, or 6-b6-5 in D major, which has a rich history of romantic longing. But it's not too too common in Morricone. He uses it sparingly, making its impact all the more effective when it does appear. Here's another one of my favourties in Morricone in Deborah's Theme (Once Upon a Time in America) - you have to listen from about 1:19 to get its full effect, but the falling bass line happens through 2:11, 2:19, and 2:25: Delicate enough to melt even the stoniest of hearts.

I'm starting a new mini-series of three blog posts on Morricone's well-known score for Once Upon a Time in the West. Here's my take on Jill's theme (the main theme): http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/ennio-morricones-score-for-once-upon-a-time-in-the-west-part-1-of-3-jills-theme-main-theme/ Enjoy!

Congratulations, karelm, on celebrating a powerful, imagery-filled, colorfully-orchestrated work, and a great performance to boot. I wish I could see the IMAX!

Yes, I agree. It would certainly be wrong to regard these atonal sets as altered 9, 11, and 13 chords. It seems he's combining both tonal and atonal. The tonal grounds the music in something immediately comprehensible and gives the cue coherence, especially if through a pedal point or clear bass note suggesting a tonic. Then the sets are added on top of this, producing a more unsettling, tension-inducing effect. What I'm wondering is if someone has described this technique before in the music of another composer. Messaien has his modes of limited transposition, which may be important considering his frequent use of the octatonic scale, though Williams tends to sound much more tonal than Messaien, where there is often no real sense of key. Bartok is a good one too, but there again, it's different. I find that his pieces tend to be either tonal or atonal, not really both at once. I would have trouble believing it's unique to Williams because it's such a natural thing to want to do. Britten may be a precursor, but his influence was probably more European. Maybe I should be looking at what's been said of American composers who used tonal elements like Copland, Ives, and those more in academia like Roger Sessions, and Howard Hanson. I don't know. So many of these passages have such Williams-esque sound, I have to think there's something binding them together. I have the feeling this is the kind of question that's going to take a long time and a lot of work to answer in some detail.