Remco

The “BotH moment” works so beautifully in the movie, and if you look closely it doesn’t really quote it - the melody starts on the third of the scale, instead on the root and then goes in different directions anyway. I didn’t realize the resemblance until it was pointed out here. And I have said this before, but the fact that we can now detect some of the temp-track doesn’t detract anything from the quality of the music itself!!! It’s nothing new for JW or SW music. The difference now is that we’re so overly familiar with the SW scores instead of the classical repertoire that was used as temp before. Also: @Chen G. Why do you think that the dramatic tone of RotS is unfitting for the dramatic scenes here? In the end, the score is still an extension of TFA musically so I don’t get your point exactly.

I see what you mean, but it's far more tiring that I see some guys insisting in every TLJ thread that anything Williams wrote and recorded after 2005 is per definition inferior to whatever he wrote in the past. There is plenty to love in his recent output, even though it is written with different sensibilities. I can't express how incredibly happy I am to have TLJ's soundtrack here, and to be able to enjoy it as much as I do. Yeah, in the end I'll admit that ESB is perhaps a superior score, but what's the point of that?

The two did meet together to see the (temped) movie together, RJ told this story a few months ago.

I agree it's a little too much in this score though. At the very least, he could have put it in a different key than usual before the end credits!

So what you mean is that you disagree with the choice of having this dramatic, RotS-like tone at moments?

More than 'Star Wars' has to do with Le Sacre Du Printemps or King's Row, I would say. Anyway, I thought the tone of the music fits the movie well.

Good points, but I did like the location a lot. Stuff like the Rathars in TFA felt way more unnecessary to me.

Can't believe you're bringing this up. Didn't you complain in many posts that Williams had lost his touch of writing music that was more complex, grand, or well... perhaps more 'prequel-esque'? And that it sounded too different to the London recordings? If anything, I find it tasteful that for the second movie in the trilogy, he briefly brought back the drums and choir to support the final act that was more dramatic than the one in TFA.

In defense of the "Battle of the Heroes" cameo: That moment shares as much intervallic DNA with Rose's theme as it does with BotH. Which makes sense given Also, to say that moments sounding too close to the temp-track detract from the score's quality, is a complete non-argument IMO. This was already part of SW music in 1977.

After reading all of this, I'm almost hesitant to say I actually... loved the movie? A few things: - I agree that the Finn/Rose subplot could've been shorter, however in its defense it nuanced the whole good vs. evil conflict, highlighting this decadent society that couldn't care less about the outcome of the war, and DJ is pretty much an extension of that (although not so necessary). Plus it gives a bit of Rose's backstory. I can see how it fits in the movie conceptually, but its execution is not perfect. However, it provides some awesome Williams music and I loved how Canto Bight really felt alive. For me it didn't detract from the movie enormously. - Luke's end felt very poignant to me, even more when I watched it the second time. Very emotional climax. I'm sure he'll be around as a force ghost in ep. IX. - Speaking of that, I really hope we'll get a brief explanation about Snoke's origin in IX, perhaps in relation to the Knights of Ren. Didn't Andy Serkis say he was fully informed about his background? Otherwise I'm totally fine with him killed off. - Also about the rise of the First Order etc. that was discussed a few pages ago, I think it makes sense to have similar consecutive wars with a few decades inbetween... I mean, look at history of our actual world. But it is a pity that JJ excluded the explanation of it all in TFA, I must say.

Just keep in mind these vocal haters never actually represent the average opinion.... or at least I hope so.

I was also thinking this today. At the end of the score we hear Kylo’s theme on a marching rythm and a bit of an extension - which could be a hint of what is to come. Now that Kylo seems to have dealt with his issues and becomes the Supreme Leader, it would be appropriate to have a First Order/Kylo Ren march theme for the final movie. I get the impression now that the films are made faster after each other, and since they immediately connect story-wise, the end result will be a far more cohesive SW trilogy than the prequels, musically speaking. Also about what has been said earlier, one might have personal issues with how this score is done compared to expectations, but I can’t think of a better way to score this film. It doesn’t ask for many new themes, and at least the other material has a clear leitmotivic purpose most of the time, unlike RotS for instance.

Well funny thing is, it isn’t really the Vader theme. The motif that is mostly repeated is F - C - Ab which doesn’t correspond with the theme. Only in the beginning we briefly hear F - Db - Ab because there is a harmony change, and apparently that is what the trailer house took, and then they transposed it from F to G minor so that it is in the same key as the Imperial March. Maybe that’s the reason that we associate it more with Vader’s theme than Williams might have intended - who knows.

The theme is presented more clear in TLJ than any version in TFA, where it was always a bit buried in sound effects. Major goosebumps when it first appeared in the movie. Regardless of your personal opinion of it, if you can’t recognize it after 2 years you’ve simply not taken the time to truly listen to it.

I remember with TFA this took about half a year, or a little less. So I guess we’ll have to wait a while

Enough people around here would do that, I get the impression. Anyway, I think it’s too early to call it either a masterpiece or place it as anyone’s least favorite score. I don’t like to do these kind of rankings anyway, but that’s another story.

“Chase through Coruscant” says hi, though. But yes, it is really great action material! Edit: oh, you beat me to it!!

Ha, well they certainly did. Still it sounded like a different recording, which makes sense given RJ has said that they re-recorded it. But maybe I misheard it in all my excitement!

Imagine if he finds out that his recording is on the TLJ album as well!

Yeah I must say that’s very strange. In cinema the opening made a far bigger impact than I remember with TFA, but the recording on album sounds like it’s the same. More royalties to Dudamel..?

The performance of the LA orchestra is simply outstanding, I don’t see how anyone could question that. Especially now it’s mixed in a way that’s more close to the prequel scores, I thought it would please those who “miss” the LSO. I don’t want to sound like a dick, but it’s kind of funny that there’s this endless debate about the sound difference between two world class orchestras, when quite some members here couldn’t tell that the Verizon commercial music had synth in it.

I find it hard to say something in detail about the music at this point already, even though my initial reaction is extremely positive. But I will say that I’m SO happy that Shawn Murphy abandoned TFA’s ridiculously dry mix. There’s so much more resonance to the orchestra this time around, and it sounds spectacular. In the movie it is also mixed much louder than TFA, which was just great. I haven’t heard much Williams scores in cinema because of my age (I can only imagine how it was to experience ‘Journey to the Island’ back in ‘93, for instance!), but this is one that really made an impact on me.

Cool. Maybe let’s first watch the movie, form an opinion, and if it is negative, cite these reviews to illustrate that. Until then I don’t see the point of dedicating a post to every single negative review considering these are a clear minority so far.

Given it’s current average score and published reviews, why focus on that...?

Yeah that could certainly be the case, but I guess it’s part of the job. Back in 1977 it was guys like Korngold and Holst that he had to emulate, now it’s himself!