Remco

Hmmm, but reading the discussion it’s said that Williams wrote the fanfare last! I’m imagining that he wrote Luke’s theme as part of the score, maybe having Korngold in the back of his mind unconciously, then when he needed to write the fanfare it turned into a big b flat major statement to evoke the Rósza (sorry @Holko) temp track. And so it started to sound more like the Kings Row intro. Edit: Ah, I see you corrected some things.

I’m shocked about the Ròsza. So it’s a myth that Kings Row was used?

Do we know if the main titles were originally conceived in B major but dropped to B flat major to connect with the fox fanfare? I’m wondering since Kings Row is in B major and it is kind of a more typical key to write in for Williams, I think. Mentioning Kings Row btw because Williams tends to stick with the key of the temp track.

No.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKE6MKOClF8/?igshid=ooin9y3gzp1d JWfans will take over the orchestras one day! (Hmm, why doesn’t it embed)

As far as I can judge, this is the situation: The younger generation of players Concertgebouw Orchestra musicians would probably like to do it (like in Vienna) but the management has always been extremely conservative. I see it as much more elitist than the VPO. They’ve done some lighter music but I frankly don’t think they’d consider JW as an option. Then there’s this: The audience that comes to their concerts is some of the most snobbish you can imagine and they certainly wouldn’t want to hear JW’s music. On the other hand, we have *plenty* of occasions during the year when JW’s

Flight to Neverland has a rousing start (except for the late horns entry, but ok) but then drags on to the end. That is not about tempo choices (which is an artistic choice, like in the Imperial March), but tempo *stability* to which I hope we’d all agree on is something that is desired from a performance. And no, that’s not rubato.

@aviaznThat’s very eloquently put. As for DG, I’m starting to believe the ‘flub’ in SW main titles is actually an editing mistake. It sounds more like a bad crossfade maybe because some timing things had to align with the moving image?

That is of course true. But I think that mostly says something about the gap between critics/snobs and the actual musicians who’re playing. Thankfully it’s become much bigger, now with more and more young musicians who also grew up with pop culture and embrace it. That is why I hope that winning over the traditional critics will be irrelevant in another 20 or so years, when they will be gone and musicians and audiences prevail. But for now it still pervades the decision-making in the classical music too much. Btw, for the VPO, is it true that the musicians requested JW’

Oh I totally agree. The concerts were of symbolic significance, surely, but only if you care about it (which I’ll admit, I certainly do!). But I think the vague idea that these concerts elevated the status of film music in a broad sense (how do we define that status, and for who does it apply?) is just the opposite side of the spectrum where that awful Norman Lebrecht review is on. Both seek to re-affirm a personal view that has very little to do with the reality IMO: that everybody had a great time at the Musikverein but the world is still the same as it was before.

Somehow the music in TROS sounds a lot more clear when I’m just watching it on TV or listening with headphones... much better than in cinema where the sound effects were just overbearing.

I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps) have to do with standards of orchestral playing to which there is a certain degree of objectivity, especially with an orchestra of this level. Some others here are flat-out denying this, or claiming that just because it doesn’t matter to *them* and the album broke all kinds of records it doesn’t matter *at all*. That also keeps the discussion going in circles. But frankly, I thin

At many moments the ensemble playing is remarkably poor for an orchestra of this stature even though you can still hear this is an orchestra consisting of great players. I blame lack of familiarity with the material and this could’ve happened with any other world-class orchestra as well, BUT when you’re planning a DG release the people in power should have planned things better, maybe have another conductor work on it beforehand, doing more patch-up sessions or whatever.

My feelings exactly.

The Last Jedi really is a fantastic score. Btw, mostly in an expanded version.