Lord Montague

Uhmm, a vinyl LP simply has a time limit for each side. Not sure why that's annoying, that's the way vinyl works. Devil's dance was live recorded in Vienna. Why live record it again in Boston?

what are you amateurs talking about? because your keyboard trumpet plays instant to your midi click track you think that's relevant for real musicians? LOL Sorry Vienna Phil is no match to your Casio keyboards.

if that's the only you can find, that's Kai Luehrs-Kaiser. The local "village idiot" who got fired from rbb last week for antisemitic remarks against Barenboim. But do you have ears? Just listen to the recordings. It's really obvious, how Vienna's orchestra sound is perfectly suited, particularly in the brass, also the strings. Luehrs-Kaiser wasn't even in Vienna, so his opinion pro the local band is pointless. So ONE critic is MOST critics for you. All right...

Sorry but you are just a troll. What a ridiculous comment.

Which "most critics" think that BP is better than VP for this music? Please name them here, thank you. JW said that "best orchestra thing" in Vienna in his talk to the audience. For anyone to hear. Just like in Berlin. It's what one says on such occasions.

ok, you can play it on your keyboard. I rest my case. hahaha.

Were you at both concerts, Vienna and Berlin? I was, and to me the Wiener were all together better and more ambitious and having fun too. Berlin had some players who loved it apparently, but a lot of dead wood too, and academists placed on key wind positions. (they did relatively well, but such is rude behavior by the orchestra to a great master like JW.) Clearly Berlin Phil DIDN'T give THEIR ALL. They were half hearted opportunists. You have to witness them with their chief Petrenko sometimes, then you know what it means when that orchestra gives their all. Haha, then you have no ears. Also check the poll. Apparently I'm not the only one who overall liked Vienna better. Of course we don't have to have this comparison at all, both concert series can stand on their own, if not trolls like you and Jurassic Shark constantly have to bicker about it.

I don't know why you argue with me, if you don't know anything about it. Sorry, bit strange. I always talked about the winds. No need to compare concert masters, or tuba, which were regularly staffed in both orchestras. Also JW said in Vienna the same (best orchestra). He is a very courteous man. Also you didn't read my post. I said Vienna is actually in many ways better suited for JW music than the so called American orchestras. Sic! That's only paradox and surprising on very first thought. Then it becomes kind of clear, if one understands which heritage JW is basing his compositions on.

He is a polite man. He will say "that orchestra up north, formerly known as one of the best in the world." 🥳

Not quite the same. The concert master in Vienna was not Honeck (or Steude), but a regular one. The winds saw the usual senior tenured players in Vienna. Unlike Berlin. Nobody commented on such issues in Vienna. But in Berlin many insiders noticed... You saw academists in the tutti strings in Vienna. That's normal. In Berlin all the solo winds (except Wenzel Fuchs) were academists. That's just rude to JW, sorry. Berlin is not the better symphony orchestra, far from it, maybe 40 years ago, but not now. They lost their sonic identity, are now a group of super musicians that have no collective sound. Unlike Vienna who is all about the orchestra as one living organism. Also actually Vienna's style and sound is perfect for John Williams music, he said so himself. Don't forget that much of the Hollywood orchestra music tradition is based on the Viennese/Austro-Bohemian school. Korngold etc... In short, JW and Vienna Phil are a perfect match. Berlin is a very capable band, maybe more flexible than Vienna in soundscapes, they can do anything, but they need a lot of input from a über-conductor, to get that result. Otherwise it's just random and loud. Even in the classical core repertoire. Vienna on the other hand, anything classic to late romantic repertoire you throw at them, they play it making you grin right away. So perfect for JW's music. Maybe anything from Stravinsky and later on they are not so instantly great anymore. Will be interesting with the Violin concerto. Just listen to the brass groups of both orchestras. Vienna sounds perfect and well blended and balanced. Berlin not so much. Only on first sight is it paradox, that Vienna play German trumpets (softer and fuller sound) and Berlin played American trumpets (narrower and sharper sound). Williams couldn't be happier with that full sound in Vienna through all registers. The horns... not even in the same league in those concerts, sorry Sarah Willis Just listen. In Vienna the timbre is continuous from Trumpets to Horns. In Berlin it's like two different worlds. (also like in two different rooms) The solo violin repertoire is a different issue, and I agree that for the hardcore fans it might be a bit of a distraction. I personally like the variation it introduces, and also their artistic collaboration is a joy to witness. Last but not least it seems to be a great inspiration for the master, who as far as straight forward film music goes, might feel at this point in his life a bit less attracted to the known routines, due to lack of new challenges.

Two reasons: 1.) Corona rules, waiting as long as possible to know how many tickets they can actually sell. 2.)Timed for raining on Berlin's parade around their JW album release date. Berlin over all the years refused to invite JW for anything but open air concerts in the Waldbühne. Only after they saw how great the Vienna concert went, which the orchestra in Vienna really wanted - and they lobbied JW really long and hard to come - only then did Berlin invite JW also for such a format. And then the snobs in Berlin Phil let only their academists play in the solo winds. What a shame. Berlin deserves a bit of bad karma around their album release. In a way Vienna paved the way for JW coming to continental Europe at all. Berlin were only opportunists.

LOL. You really get the trophy for best trolling.

cute...

His internal metronome is alright. The structure of the music becomes thicker in the fugato, causes a slight slowdown. That's quite musical and normal. Dudamel rushes through it. Someone thinks that's "more vibrant", just because of the quicker tempo. I don't think so, not in this case. The Vienna tempo is better for hearing the structure IMHO.

You guys crack me up. Seriously, even with JW conducting himself you think you know better. LOL.

Interesting. Dudamel is overspeeding in the L.A. recording. John Williams conducts in Vienna exactly in tempo. His own score metronome marking is 106. Dudamel is more like 115. But maybe JW will change his metronome marking for "Out to Sea" based on your comment. :-)

Nobody agreed that Vienna sucked. Only you two trolls did. 💩

OK, forum troll #1.

Oh they do that all the time. Plenty of recordings. Just not too many with a steady snare drum beat underneath. :-)

You guys read not very knowledgeable about the way Vienna Phil plays classical music, their tradition. Many of you come from a background of metronomes in click tracks apparently. Vienna, first of all an opera orchestra, is known for their "freedom" in phrasing and agogic, which can mean, just like at the infamous 20 seconds trumpet place, that the leading voice sings a bit freely, while the rest of the orchestra keeps the pulse. It's called rubato. ;-) It happens all the time in opera. As for Jaws, yes, that is a very difficult score to perform, and Vienna could have used one more rehearsal for that for sure. Remember that for film scoring, JW gets about three hours of recording time for 8 minutes of music. Plenty of time to get it perfect. But here Vienna probably did not have much more rehearsal time than playing it through two or three times. JW's stern look is partly also due to him not being used that himself. He is not an opera conductor in Vienna after all. You guys have to stop bickering about such silly nonsense and embrace Vienna's freedom and musicality. It's so refreshing over some of these machine orchestras in the top league, I do not say names now... ;-)

Agreed, but he is very busy composing these days AFAIK, so not too many scores he didn't perform recently anyway seem just reasonable for reducing the workload in preparation. It's a bit of a double headed animal though, that concert. The hardcore JW fans, who again would kill their grandmas to get tickets, will not care much about the great but modernist violin concerto. A bit more courage would have been nice to perform less popular (read non-film) scores by the master.

You are talking about Berlin recording here, which has the frontal harp, right?

you are right, my mistake, it was Raider's March.

Yes, as encore. And it's on the DG Vienna recording. EDIT: my mistake, it was Raider's March, not Superman.

I would have preferred a program without film themes, only some encores, this time with Vienna. I feel JW is missing an opportunity to get some of his less popular non-film scores the attention they deserve with one of the world's best orchestras.