SF1_freeze

Do you know if the Lost world theme appears in anyone of the unreleased tracks?

Zimmer has delivered some masterpieces like "Gladiator" and of course "The Lion King". I would put the latter on my all time top 10 favorite soundtracks lists. Other than that i enjoyed some parts of his MI-2 score and the first Batman wasn't bad but he never reached the heights of his greats again... I usually don't compare him with real classical trained orchestral composers like Goldsmith, Williams, Morricone,... because his style is so different (that doesn't mean bad)

Very well description of Desplat's Potter soundtrack but i never wowed at all. But it's so true that you won't remember about it as soon as it's finished playing. The motives are so generic and unmemorable.

If Williams is Yates god he hopefully will force both Yates and Desplat to use more of Hedwig's Theme, write memorable own themes and hopefully cameo at least one other classic Potter theme like family or window to the past! (Either Yates is lying here in his praise for Williams or he just completely lacks any sense of music . Because if he has so much praise for Williams how can he value Hooper so much. I mean friendship is good and well but seriously considering to let his friend Hooper butcher another two movies is extremely strange.

God, these samples are way better than the whole Desplat Potter output.

You know. I tried to write out my thoughts on why Desplat's score is more than a worthy entry into the Harry Potter universe. But about an eigth of the way into the typing I read this sentence and realized it is a pointless undertaking. I am sorry that your brain is incapable of discerning and recalling repeating patterns and ideas. Perhaps you ought to engage in some discourse with those who raised you as to what in your youth caused the abnormal functionality of that region of your brain. It is dubious that we can help you now though. The proverbial boat on that bit of brain development has long departed the dock. If by now the score is not memorable or worthy to you, please do make an exit from this thread, and join us in the conversation of the movie, as I'm sure you are a Harry Potter fan and will be watching the movie, regardless of the unworthy unmemorable lump of music Desplat has turned in. We will make sure to mark our record books with qkgyver's immense disdain and disappointment with the unmemorable and unworthy score by Alexandre Desplat of France for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part I, directed by David Yates and funded and distributed by Warner Bros. and based on a best-selling novel by J.K. Rowling. Indeed. My only real gripe with the score is the muffled mixing of it. I thought it was the low bit rate, but even at higher qualities it still sounds rather like the album has a cold. You just sound like another one of those Desplat fanboys on this board . Please write true arguments and stop go the dirty way by insulting someones brain or something like that... Is this score not worth it to think about it a little and find arguments that either support or criticize it? I have to agree with qkgyver, of course. This is an unmemorable even often boring score on the OST. I argumented it, read my other posts. No one has provided better arguments in response to prove me wrong. The only thing i got were insults from Koray. Well, i have to be right somehow, proven by drawing the anger of the Desplat fanboys on me And how shall the fact that Desplat composes it have anything to do with appreciation. In the end just the quality of the music counts. It suceeds in orchestration, but fails hard in memorability, continuity and listenabilty as an album. I know that Desplat employs at least four different motives and he develops them, but they are all so unmemorable and average that it doesnt help. It still sounds like good underscore. And i'm no Harry Potter fan (but i will watch the movie) . I'm just interested in the huge possibilities they provide for great (also listenable apart the movie) filmmusic. So that is my concern By the way, good post incanus. It's just that true masterpieces usually satisfy all these groups and worse scores loose them one after another. Even if there are people who love a bad score it still will be regarded bad if the majority doesn't.

I would have loved if there was another appearance of the outstanding alternate slower Lost World theme (in the Finale album track). But after reading the tracklists there isnt much unused music at all, isn't it? Great job on this thread guys

Oh boy , you should better say: I'm such a Desplat fanboy that i can't cope with critic and as i have no proper arguments myself for serious discussion i start shouting and using bad language. In short: Get your things together and accept this score is a huge waste of opportunities and dissapointment for me. I have seen some Desplat scored films in the cinema and i never even noticed anything worthy of relistening before. The scores fit these films like gloves (which is positive) but never shine on their own or take center stage (which is bad cause it's no fun to listen to them outside of the movie). For me there obviously is no desire (after this Potter) to check out more Desplat in the near future (except DHpart2). Sky battle is a well orchestrated, enjoyable mish mash and probably one of the best tracks on this album but i would take JW on action autopilot every time over this track.

It was obvious that if they cant get Williams they will stay with Desplat and i would have supported them but then i heard his Part1 soundtrack.......... After such a dissapointing listening experience i have to say: "What a pity to get Desplat again " There would be so many other good choices possible. And after the probably most unmemorable Potter score continuity between Part1 and 2 is for nothing now, makes not even sense anymore. He created nothing memorable worthy of continuity treatment for this soundtrack and now he does the last Part and will probably struggle hard. We all knew before that he can't write action that well. How shall such a subtle, themeless, unmemorable and boring Desplat underscore work for an action film (2/3 are action) and the finale of an eight movie franchise. I have no idea at all.

But it would save you the inevitable further disappointment and us having to hear about it. Not really, i would have to cope with the goddamn ipod and that would be more dissapointing than you could imagine. They arent as good as many believe and just limit you in a lot of aspects...

Wouldnt make much sense, wouldnt it... then i could not hear the dialogue and the sound effects... other than that -> apple sucks

Without any memorable music you just have to lack personality... boring album with very good underscore but unmemorable, subtle developed motific ideas (these are no themes for me, sorry) Now i just wait for the movie and expect to be dissapointed even more by the blown musical opportunities

Sorry, but I think this "rule" for "great scores for a franchise" is just silly. Would PoA be a bad score for the franchise if it was the same, just with the one transitionary Hedwig's theme in the middle removed (or even its B part - come on, that's only 1/4 of new notes compared to the A part, the second half is nearly identical)? GoF, OotP, and DH1 have several statements of Hedwig's theme within the film (HBP less so, as far as I recall), GoF and OotP even a comparatively rousing one (with timpani and all) on CD, so I think this point is moot here: In the usage of the main theme, those movies's difference to PoA is a gradual, not a qualitative one. So how does the rest of the scores hold up? -PoA gave us some some new themes (Window to the Past, Double Trouble) and motifs (Sirius, Wormtail) that are heard frequently in the film, and some setpieces that are basically just for one scene (Aunt Marge, Knight Bus, Buckbeak's Flight (with a short reprise at the end, as it's a very similar scene), Quidditch). -GoF had the new Harry theme, new motifs for Voldemort and the Goblet, all appearing frequently; and a row of setpieces for different scenes (Quidditch WC, the tasks to varying degree, the Yule ball waltzes, the Hogwarts March) -OotP had the Umbridge theme and possession theme/motif (I think the line is blurry here) and several action or montage setpieces (the flight of the order, Room of Requirement, Fireworks) -HBP continued to use the possession theme (to a grand a dramatic buildup in the last part of the film), had a sorrowful theme for Dumbledore, one for Malfoy's struggle, a light romantic motif, he even adapted Williams's "Quidditch, Third Year" motif for several action sequences, and a very chilling and melancholic theme for the memories of Harry's mother in the later Slughorn scenes; also some fun setpieces (e.g. Wizard's wheezes, Living Death) -DH1 has the main theme (which alone is greatly developed into some very emotional material later on), the Voldemort/Death Eater motifs, the Harry's allies/OotP theme, all recurring frequently, motifs/themes for Dobby, the Locket, Dumbledore, and the Hallows, that pop up in several places, and setpieces like Sky Battle, The Ministry of Magic, Xeno Lovegood... It comes down to how much you appreciate the themes and motifs that each film introduces, the flow of underscore and setpieces, and the "Potter-ness" of the character and instrumentation of the music. In this regard I can say that for me, DH1 and OotP have very Potterish sound, HBP slightly less, and GoF more of a different style. Desplat shows the most Williams-ish orchestrations and several compository Williams like gestures (especially in the action music), Doyle has his distinctive refined style that overdoes the bombast and sappiness in parts, and Hooper gets the magic right but struggles with employing the whole orchestra in an engaging way, making much of his scores relatively sparse-sounding. None really reaches the wealth of Williams's themes for the first three films, but then I must add that some of Williams's themes are a bit on the cartoony side. You are right there are dozens of other facettes which make the difference, i repeated just the continuity problems...read the other ones in my other posts if you care PoA solved that good, all others really bad

That is an assumption, not a fact. And using that to accuse composer of ignorance is rather immature, you must agree. Otherwise I don't care for anybody's opinion on the score. Opinions are opinions and I haven't got an issue with these. Karol Why is it immature to express critizism and draw a conclusion? You just have to conclude even if you are non biased that for an 8 movie franchise, the behaviour to scrap the complete thematic approach and almost all the continuity is an ignorant behaviour whoevers fault it was(maybe Heyman's, maybe Desplat's, probably Yates)! That are just the facts nothing more and nothing less.

I also recall listening to an interview where Newell expressed that in his opinion (which i cannot understand nor in any way share) Williams magical sound was fine for the first few films but not for GoF. I think he answered that in response to abandoning all the themes and changing Hedwig's theme. In the end Newell blew it, Doyle blew it and the whole movie didnt feel like Harry Potter at all and is widely regarded as one of the weakest Potter movies.

My understanding always was: This is the same franchise, the rights to all the music belong to WB and so every composer working on the franchise is allowed to use whatever former theme they wanted Why is critizism ever pointless, thats just a strange claim... There is no problem with the filmtracks review, the only problem are people who don't want to accept that continuity in a franchise makes the difference between rather average ( bad continuity -> GoF, HbP, OotP and probably DHpt1) and great scores for the franchise Harry Potter ( good continuity ->PoA). If they are heard without the connection to the franchise Harry Potter GoF and DHpt1 are very good scores, but they dissapoint as true Potter scores!!! And if you don't like Clemmensons review/opinion then thats probably more your own feeling of dissapointment towards a score everyone wished to be a masterpiece but what turned out to be just a rather mediocre effort in the end. Clemmenson just wrote it down "in your face" rather than completely ignore the shortcomings and give 5 stars because it is Desplat...

There is a big amount of continuity in PoA, because Hedwig's theme is used for about 5 minutes and you also have the Nimbus2000 theme from the first films!!! Please stay with the facts, the whole score is filled with small statements of Hedwig's theme, in counterpoint or just the first few bars bars. Additionally Hedwig's theme appears with the complete A and B part and with just the full A part in the film. First of all in the beginning with its longest statement and another time time when Hedwig flies across Hogwarts while winter is coming. The secret of continuity is to spread the main theme throughout the whole(!) score and additionally use full theme statements. Why did Hooper in OotP and Doyle in GoF (and probably Desplat) never play Hedwig's in full. (The only other Williams full theme statement with the B-part was the unreleased cue from Half Blood Prince. But in HbP the theme dissapeared after 30 minutes, so continuity was scrapped again there)

Very interesting post about all the gestures/themes Desplat used, thank you. To be honest i definetly didnt realize this rich structure/groundwork Desplat employed before i read your analysis. It's just that besides my personal dissapointment about the almost non appearance of established Williams material i usually love memorable music. Somehow lots of tracks on this album sound more like very good underscore instead of being the great thematic journey the first Potter movies were. One more memorable and easier accessible grander theme/voice in this soundtrack would propably have been enough for me to apprecciate it much more... Does your statement regarding how the industry works relates to the demands from directors/producers which can prevent a memorable/creatively refreshing/great score? (Such as copy the temp track or i dont want any big themes, make it subtle?)

There is good underscore but where are the themes you are talking about? I at the most hear a few motives developed throughout the score, only maybe Lovegood is a theme but not at all memorable sadly...

That's a good point, may be true in a lot of cases. You have to hope that the producer or director is a fan of the music. Then all other casual fans get what they want @ Charlie Bridgen: You are right, i dont base these opinon on all the music in the film, just on the OST but i'm happy to be mistaken if the film contains more established material. I know i base it on an incomplete work but what i heard on the soundtrack made it impossible for me not to comment my thoughts right now.

Great, you provide no arguments yourself and just diss my whole post. I said i used numbers i guessed to help you understand my point and you call it ridiculous. My god that's quite fanboy. If you cant cope with critizism that differs from your opinion its sad. Why should i care about the next Harry Potter film now when there isnt even a composer announced. I said my opinion to this Potter score and this is it, the last scores composer is still unknown! I never said that there are laws for reusing themes or something. I also read comments liking Hoopers interpretation of Hedwig's themes so your claim that the whole message board hates other composers uses of Williams hemes is completely wrong.

Why don't you accept different opinions, why don't you discuss. You always cite the same arguments in support of Desplat's abandoning of continuity and ignore the arguments against it. And if for example i try to explain my problem with that approach you declare me as extreme JW fanboy.. that's not fair Maybe you should read my posts some pages ago. I help you with that and put my problems with Desplat's approach in this post again so that you don't have to look for it. If you again ignore my points it proves to me that you don't want a serious discussion at all. (EDIT: The made up percentage numbers are just used to let you understand my point, nothing more ....) 1) Desplat, Hooper and Doyle in my opinion seem narrow minded. They could do 90% own stuff and 10% of established "other peoples music" material and they still would satisfy almost everyone. Obviously even 90 percent new stuff seems not enough for these guys, they want 98 percent own stuff and because the studio requires Hedwig's theme they use it in 2% of the score. (The percentage numbers are just my guess) Why not deliver some treats to the fans by rearranging some old themes instead of scrapping all, and doing as if the former films dont exist? These composers or directors therefore seem to be pure egoists! (and thats an observation everyone can make just by looking at the facts. This observation is propably a little "in your face" but i think if composers read these boards they will cope with a little critizism. They are free to post here maybe using a pseudonym or even their real name to discuss these things if they want) 2) Why are you still saying that using some of Williams themes and Hedwig's themes more often would artistically limit Desplat/Hooper/Doyle in their originality. Wouldnt 90& original own material and 10% established themes be enough? In my opinion (and probably everyone elses because it just wouldnt make sense otherwise) you are still original enough if you can do what you want for 90% of the film. Don't you agree? Or is there an invisible border at 98% own stuff you aren't allowed to pass to stay original enough? 3) What do you respond to the claim that if composers accept the job to work on a franchise they should expect to use established material? They can also refuse the job anyway if they want to do all in all original films. So in the end it is always their choice 4) Another big problem is that Desplat (and he was the only one) didnt deliver own memorable themes. I can't say if he couldnt come up with better motifs or just changed the approach but this is serious. In a franchise so dependent on its themes you just can't abandon everything old without delivering something new thematic and memorable. It's like one important element of Potter music misses now. Im thrilled what you will say in defense of Desplat here... 5) I read one comment claiming that the new Potter films are self contained. That cannot be true because all the build up on this epic 8 movie story was done over all the films. If you only watch the new film you have no clue what's going on. There is no exposition anymore. ( The only film who would work self contained was the first one) 6) As some of you mentioned i have to agree that a lot what went wrong musically has to be blamed on Yates and also on the producers. They seem to never had or have lost their musical sense.

Take note of that, Mr. Desplat/Yates! Referring to the music: Shame what we got as composers, directors after Williams went... so many possibilities for an all time musical masterpiece and everyone blew it so far What a relief that not all composers are so self focused and egoistic, i think i would gladly take David Arnold instead of Desplat anytime for the last Potter.

Well i can tell you the great things i like this movie for (i ignore the bad things more or less(love story, love story, love story), accept them cause it's Star Wars and there are also good things but i wont mention them here) So basically, you agree with Koray. Did you read my post ? I agree on the fact that being Star Wars let me accept hard flaws but i strongly disagree with the statement that there are no good things in the movie. In my post i listed the great things/scenes of AOTC. Without the cheesy, bad bad love story this film would have been an A-

A true standard hater post, it gets old. Well i can tell you the great things i like this movie for (i ignore the bad things more or less(love story, love story, love story), accept them cause it's Star Wars and there are also good things but i wont mention them here) 1) The truest greatness for me personally always were the first 30-35 minutes on Coruscant. I always wanted to see the City Planet's civil life, the people, the districts, the bars, the different types of skyscrapers, speeders (the epitome of Metropolis). George Lucas delivered here on every level (!!!). The visual effects in these scenes were/are groundbreaking, the effort that went into the whole speeder chase is astonishing. Coruscant at night is a visual feast for the eyes. We also finally see a civil district and a wonderful nightclub encounter (set design is pure gold there). Every moment is filled with details. For example as they enter the nightclub one girl in the bar elevates down an antigrav tub to get down to ground level 2) The whole mystery plot with Obi Wan was great, really great in my eyes. We got to see one of the most interesting planets ever Kamino, saw even more of Coruscants civil life (dinner), had the cute younglings scene...and you have the cool action scenes with Jango and Boba Fett 3) Groundbattle on Geonosis was done very well, Christopher Lee was priceless in every scene he was in. 4) Perfect moment in the end with the clone army marching, palpatine on the balcony and the best version of the imperial march in all six movies!