indy4 155 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 From what I can tell, Williams has tended towards synthesized choir fairly often in recent years. Often it is used to represent the dead (War of the Worlds, Tintin) or the non-human (KotCS, AI). It's very effective, as the almost human synth choirs reflect the almost human qualities of the dead or the non-human. But Williams has also chosen to represent these voices in the past using a real choir (Schindler's List, SPR). Any guesses as to why he has tended towards the synths recently? Is it a development of his style (artistically it certainly works for reasons stated above)? Is it a matter of ease or funds (Williams rarely uses synth choir in scores that demand a lot of choir, and I don't think he's ever used synths and real choir in the same score)?Please correct me if I'm wrong about the use of synth choirs in any of these scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinspace 8 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I think it's just another colour, but the dynamic range of a real choir is much greater than synth. I guess it depends on the film whether it requires that much emotional force. If you look at JW manuscript for Revenge of Sith he uses Synth choir to great effect doubling wind or strings and it creates a much more atmospheric, three dimensional sound. Can you imagine Duel of Fates of Battle of Heroes or Anakin vs Obi Wan without a real "human" choir... Some good examples and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Williams used it in cases were the use of choir is very minor, only a small part of a sinlge cue (Tintin, The Last Crusade). And it does nor need to convey any deep emotions.Surely it's a cost and schedule issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 798 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Williams used it in cases were the use of choir is very minor, only a small part of a sinlge cue (Tintin, The Last Crusade). And it does nor need to convey any deep emotions.Surely it's a cost and schedule issue.I'm one of the few people alive who believes that for the reasons stated above by Stefan, the voices heard during the Cloud City approach in ESB are synthesized as well. It's not limited to Williams more recent scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The Last Crusade is hardly recent Roald. But it makes sense. If he needs a choir for a substantial amount of themusic, or it needs to be really pronounced or carry emotional weight, (Jurassic Park, ROTJ etc...etc) then Williams uses a real one. If it's just for a brief cue and just as an added colour to the orchestra then a synth or samples choir will suffice.Of course is the choir needs to sing actual text he will always use a real choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I think Stefan and Roald are spot on. If he intends to use the choir for a minor effect for only a minor role, then he'll use a synthetic choir. The choir only lasts like 10 seconds in Tintin. It would be pretty expensive to get a whole choir to sing about 10 seconds of material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yeah, you're not gonna book a whole choir just for a few seconds of music. =P That's one very good reason to use sampled choir right there. And Wiliams has also tended to use it to double real choir and/or other instrument. It's just a different color with its own advantages and disadvantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Technology has advanced to the point that synthesized choirs are vastly superior to real ones. Stuffy traditionalists will continue to live in denial, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 That depends...Does Williams uses synthesizers with choir function or sample library's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Trilogy 39 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Technology has advanced to the point that synthesized choirs are vastly superior to real ones. Stuffy traditionalists will continue to live in denial, of course.Please tell me you are joking. Synthesized chorus is not better than a real chorus.Why using real orchestras? Synthesized are vastly superior to real ones. Sorry, think about your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Technology has advanced to the point that synthesized choirs are vastly superior to real ones. Stuffy traditionalists will continue to live in denial, of course.ckappes got a point. I'm not fond of synthesized choirs unless their used right. Its one of the reason I never liked Titanic. And are you telling me a score like LOTR would be superior with synthesized choirs over real ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Took me a while to get what you were saying. But in my defence, he seemed very convincing and its hard to read sarcasm over the internet Your other comment on the other hand, was just downright preposterous, so its a bit hard to believe that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 With Hlao-roo, you basically have to assume that everything he says is sarcastic. Then the only hard part is noticing when he's actually being serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Wrong, Hlao-roo means everything he says. He just has shit musical tastes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Wrong, Hlao-roo means everything he says. He just has shit musical tastes!I'm going to go with this. That way, I'm not in the wrong! I kid, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Trilogy 39 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yeah, K.K. is right. It is also very difficult for me to determine, whose people make jokes, being sarcastic, etc... Especially for me, because English is not my native language. To understand, if anyone make jokes (if it is not obtrusive enough) is a bit hard. And especially through text messages only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,410 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 the voices heard during the Cloud City approach in ESB are synthesized as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 This is hardly news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,410 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It is to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah, K.K. is right. It is also very difficult for me to determine, whose people make jokes, being sarcastic, etc... Especially for me, because English is not my native language. To understand, if anyone make jokes (if it is not obtrusive enough) is a bit hard. And especially through text messages only.Don't beat yourself up...it took me a while to figure it out in his case. And I'm definitely a native English speaker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So am I (yay Canada!). Perhaps Hlao-roo is just too far up the evolutionary scale with too great a level of intellectual superiority....We are not worthy... :worship: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I know I'm not worthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 This whole MB has a very unique way of joking. It's very easy to detect once you get in the groove, but entering that groove can be difficult. A few weeks ago I reread some of my first posts on this MB and it was pretty shocking. I think that's probably why most of the newcomers don't last long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah, I left once or twice because I didn't get the humor in the beginning. Fortunately, I got past that phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,365 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 In general, I would say:Electronic sounding choir: Synth sound, texture, flavour, not meant to represent real choir, ...Expensive sample choir library: Cost issue ... often used for game soundtracks ... meant to sound as if we're listening to the real thing.Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Williams used it in cases were the use of choir is very minor, only a small part of a sinlge cue (Tintin, The Last Crusade). And it does nor need to convey any deep emotions. Surely it's a cost and schedule issue. I'm one of the few people alive who believes that for the reasons stated above by Stefan, the voices heard during the Cloud City approach in ESB are synthesized as well. It's not limited to Williams more recent scores. Sorry to break your delusion, but the women's chorus in ESTB is definitely real. In 1980, there weren't any synths capable of sounding anything like what you hear in the recording. That came a bit later with FM synthesis and samples. There is however an ARP 2600 (an old analogue modular) providing a vary low bass drone that is told "to change timbre at random" at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah, that's real singing. Probably not very many singers, which would have kept the cost down, but you couldn't get that sound any other way back then. See also Raiders for sparing but powerful uses of real vocal performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How about the choir parts in Patronus Light? I always thought it is nicely in tune even it's quite difficult chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 How about the choir parts in Patronus Light? I always thought it is nicely in tune even it's quite difficult chords.That definitely sounds real to me. Also the short bit used in "Quidditch, 3rd Year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah, "Quidditch 2004" does call for real choir, so I'm sure most of the choir in POA as a whole is real (or real+synth, as Williams sometimes does). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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