Since visiting some Locations from the film recently i listnened to the score a lot lately, and noticed that these two themes, being so well written by Williams in a christian/medieval flair, would have benefitted a lot if some renditions of their renditions had featured a male choir, sung in gregorian chant fashion.
It's a shame this score didnt feature a choir like the other two. Well yes there was the fake choir but...
what do you think?
The Holy Grail and Knight Themes
Started by Luke Skywalker, Aug 02 2012 02:34 PM
39 replies to this topic
#1
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:34 PM
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#2
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:37 PM
I disagree. It would have sounded too Catholic.
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:41 PM
In my opinion the plain song choir would not have been exactly right for the tone of either theme but I think some kind of choral accompaniment would have been quite potent combined with those melodies, especially the Grail theme.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#4
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:46 PM
I'd never thought of this. These themes sound very sober and spot on as they are.
But I thinkit would have sounded good too.
But I thinkit would have sounded good too.
Izena duen guztia omen da.
#5
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:49 PM
Indeed. Williams succeeded to convey exactly the right mood and spirituality with both themes without the choir. Wrong Choice, Right Choice has the most goosebump inducing rendition of the Grail Theme even though it is done purely orchestrally. There is a wonderful glowing and luminous quality to the sound Williams conjures.I'd never thought of this. These themes sound very sober and spot on as they are.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#6
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:52 PM
I disagree. It would have sounded too Catholic.
Williams used chorus in Raiders and Temple without it sounding Catholic? You doubt his ability to do the same in TLC?
Besides, what is a Catholic chorus but a combined group of voices singing or chanting Latin in a religious setting. The Grail was sought during the Crusades, before the Reformation broke the Church's solidarity. The music would be appropriate.
I have often felt the lack of chorus in TLC cheapens the score with respect to the other two. It's still great music and works onscreen and in the album, at least what we have, but still.
@Wojo: stop being facetious.
#7
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:02 PM
i didnt meant solo renditions, (it could have worked in donovan's house, though the actual music is excellent as it is) but choral accompainment of some renditions.
Maybe even mixed choir as suggested would have been cool.
Maybe even mixed choir as suggested would have been cool.
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#8
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:13 PM
Williams used chorus in Raiders and Temple without it sounding Catholic? You doubt his ability to do the same in TLC?
Besides, what is a Catholic chorus but a combined group of voices singing or chanting Latin in a religious setting. The Grail was sought during the Crusades, before the Reformation broke the Church's solidarity. The music would be appropriate.
I have often felt the lack of chorus in TLC cheapens the score with respect to the other two. It's still great music and works onscreen and in the album, at least what we have, but still.
Obviously you have trouble reading!
I dismissed Luke's suggestion of a male "gregorian" type choir for sounding to Catholic.
Better luck next time, sport!
#9
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:17 PM
Since visiting some Locations from the film recently i listnened to the score a lot lately, and noticed that these two themes, being so well written by Williams in a christian/medieval flair, would have benefitted a lot if some renditions of their renditions had featured a male choir, sung in gregorian chant fashion.
It's a shame this score didnt feature a choir like the other two. Well yes there was the fake choir but...
what do you think?
He chose... poorly.
I think the music is sweet, noble, mystical and biblical enough how it is.
#10
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:22 PM
Liverpudlian is correct!
#11
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:22 PM
I stand by my comments with the unwavering pride of someone who is only as wrong as often as is required to jump-start Stef's self-esteem.
@Wojo: stop being facetious.
#12
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:24 PM
I don't need you to boost my ego. That's what women are for!
#13
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:29 PM
I think that would be your id, not your ego.
But since I can't read, you may have actually typed in an order for flapjacks and bacon, and I just misread it.
But since I can't read, you may have actually typed in an order for flapjacks and bacon, and I just misread it.
@Wojo: stop being facetious.
#14
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:42 PM
Nevertheless these themes could never sound too catholic, they were meant to as much as the ark theme can sound 'Old testament/jewish.
I mean it fits/would have fitted 100% even if catholicism is not your cup of tea...
I mean it fits/would have fitted 100% even if catholicism is not your cup of tea...
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#15
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:33 PM
Also, you are in the wrong era. Gregorian chanting would not be right age wise for the grail
#16
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:38 PM
Oh the audience wouldn't know that! They sure don't complain about the "early Latin from 11th century" in TLC.Also, you are in the wrong era. Gregorian chanting would not be right age wise for the grail
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#17
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:39 PM
But John Williams knows!
#18
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:28 PM
you mean the grail should have 33 a.C. sounding music?
Ok.
But the knight's music, being on the crusades, that could have gregorian (or whatever monk chant should be called if it's not in the correct medieval century...)
BTW even if the relic was created in the roman era, the film revolves about the passage of that relic within the middle ages so anything regarding christianity in that era is completely perfect for the film.
Ok.
But the knight's music, being on the crusades, that could have gregorian (or whatever monk chant should be called if it's not in the correct medieval century...)
BTW even if the relic was created in the roman era, the film revolves about the passage of that relic within the middle ages so anything regarding christianity in that era is completely perfect for the film.
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#19
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:30 PM
If TLC had a choir then Indy 4 would feel out of place.
#20
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:31 PM
kotcs doesnt need a choir...
It could have featured more theremin, or whatever the creepy instrument for skull was called.
It could have featured more theremin, or whatever the creepy instrument for skull was called.
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#21
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:34 PM
TLC doesn't need a choir
#22
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:37 PM
The Continuum fingerboard was featured quite a bit in the score but I am glad it wasn't utilized too heavy handedly.kotcs doesnt need a choir...
It could have featured more theremin, or whatever the creepy instrument for skull was called.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#23
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:38 PM
Idiot!
KOTCS has choir!
I liked most of the synth work in KOTCS
KOTCS has choir!
I liked most of the synth work in KOTCS
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#24
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:41 PM
If TLC had a choir then Indy 4 would feel out of place.
Yes, I'm very glad that Indy 4 didn't feel out of place.
@Wojo: stop being facetious.
#25
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:41 PM
Yes the choir is there but it is used in 2 or 3 cues. In somewhat similar manner as in Raiders, only when truly needed for extra effect, underscoring the otherwordly and alien but overall less powerful than in Raiders.Idiot!
KOTCS has choir!
I liked most of the synth work in KOTCS
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#26
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:59 PM
The Continuum fingerboard was featured quite a bit in the score but I am glad it wasn't utilized too heavy handedly.
kotcs doesnt need a choir...
It could have featured more theremin, or whatever the creepy instrument for skull was called.
I think one or two skull renditions needed a little more of it, but yet overusing it would have been bad.
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#27
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:02 PM
Why? If you are gonna use a sci-fi cliche instument, use it properly!
#28
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:13 PM
I think the allusion to the sci-fi sounds of the 1950's movies was well balanced in KotCS, not too little and not too much, a hint of familiarity tastefully done.Why? If you are gonna use a sci-fi cliche instument, use it properly!
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#29
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:17 PM
It was too little. I was actually looking forward to John Williams using a theremin-like sound. but he used it so boringly.
#30
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:17 PM
Obviously you like theremin more than I do.It was too little. I was actually looking forward to John Williams using a theremin-like sound. but he used it so boringly.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#31
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:20 PM
I prefer Theramin to the RCP crap, and Ondes Martenot 
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#32
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:22 PM
So? I prefer eating chewing gum to treading in a dog turd! What's your point!
#33
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:27 PM
There is, no, point.
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#34
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:33 PM
So? I prefer eating chewing gum to treading in a dog turd! What's your point!
You ever take your shoes and socks off and make fists with your toes? You haven't stepped in a dog turd until you've stepped in it barefoot.
@Wojo: stop being facetious.
#35
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:36 PM
Obviously you like theremin more than I do.
It was too little. I was actually looking forward to John Williams using a theremin-like sound. but he used it so boringly.
I love theremins.
Cosman probably had in mind something like the breathtaking beginning of this OST track from Marco Beltrami's Hellboy for KOTCS.
Izena duen guztia omen da.
#36
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:10 PM
i didnt meant solo renditions, (it could have worked in donovan's house, though the actual music is excellent as it is) but choral accompainment of some renditions.
Maybe even mixed choir as suggested would have been cool.
Neither would have been Gregorian.
#37
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:29 AM
Raiders needs the continuum fingerboard.
#38
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:02 AM
The Raiders reboot will, don't worry.
@Wojo: stop being facetious.
#39
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:46 PM
It was too little. I was actually looking forward to John Williams using a theremin-like sound. but he used it so boringly.
who knows what ended on the cutting room floor...
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#40
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:05 PM
Nothing much I'm sure.
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