CEOTTK. is it spielberg's "rite of spring " moment .

[tedfud 39]

Just bought the directors HD cut on iTunes . Such an amazing movie. Great cast, wonderful effects . Amazing score. Everything you could want in a movie.

T

[Jilal 681]

It still is one of my favourite films. IMO one of the best about extra-terrestrials. The script is superb, and the music... Wonderful of course, perfectly in tone with the picture. The scene that stands out the most for me is the "conversation" scene. Perfect chemistry. You are left in awe during the whole 4 minutes. It's very experimental, in terms of lighting and music, and it was a big financial success, so yes, I think it is Spielberg's "Rite of Spring" moment.

[Thor 9,362]

Although I would argue that WILLIAMS' "Rite of Spring" moment appears in JAWS, for the obvious reasons.

[A24 5,156]

And in Star Wars (albeit a different moment)!

[Muad'Dib 2,059]

Although I would argue that WILLIAMS' "Rite of Spring" moment appears in JAWS, for the obvious reasons.

I don't know, to me The Rite and Jaws, while they may sound similar out of context, they couldn't be more different. Rite of Spring represents a more human primal force, a pagan one, but one that still thinks. Jaws, on the other hand, is all about this primal beast that is totally mindless and cannot feel sympathy for anything.

Also, The Rite of Spring segment that sounds similar to Jaws is the same dissonant chord played more than 50 times, with the main hits being almost unpredictable -In fact that's the key to the whole piece: Once you get the rythm, boom! It changes to something else.

Jaws is three notes played in succession, not this gigantic chord. I'd say the similiarities are only in rythm and some of the orchestrations, particularly the piccolos; but apart from that, I'd hardly call Jaws Johnny's Rite of Spring. Heck, I don't think he has one... Maybe some of the more brutally rythmic stuff on War of the Worlds could get closer to that... Now that I think about it, wasn't he supposed to be writing a percussion concerto? Maybe we'll get his Rite there. He may even get even further and go all Ginastera on us!

But back on topic, I do agree that Close Encounters is Spielberg's masterpiece. I haven't watched it in a long time, so I'm preparing myself to revisit it and be surprised by it like it was the first time.

[A24 5,156]

I'm curious, the Jaws theme uses a melody over the dum dum beat and yet it's more animal like to you than the savage rhythm of Rites? The melody makes it more human to me.

I could be wrong but:

The Rite Of Spring: Savage dance

Jaws: Menacing



Alex

[Sharkissimo 1,978]

Jaws is three notes played in succession, not this gigantic chord.

FWIW, the two note Jaws theme is frequently harmonised in a way similar to the famous polychord from The Rite.

For example, in Main Title the strings and piano play E/Bb/C#/G/Bb/Db/Eb to F/Cb/D/Ab/Cb/D/E etc. at 0:41. At 0:51 the strings/piano/horns/trombones/trumpets sound together E/Bb/C#/E/G/Bb/Db/Eb/F#/A to F/Cb/D/F/Ab/Cb/D/E/G/Bb.

The score also shares other things in common with Le Sacre. Octatonicism, tritone progressions (i.e. beginning of Chrissie's Death) and syncopated accents. But there's also more modern developments in JAWS - tone clusters, aleatoricism (though there's not much, compared to the sequel), Rosenman-esque tone pyramids, a Yamaha YC30 Combo Organ (required for things like white noise and clusters), Bartókian string writing, eerie expressionism (Quint's Tale), and some pointillist passages in the style of Webern and Humphrey Searle (second half of Ben Gardner's Boat), and so on.

[indy4 160]

Although I would argue that WILLIAMS' "Rite of Spring" moment appears in JAWS, for the obvious reasons.

I don't know, to me The Rite and Jaws, while they may sound similar out of context, they couldn't be more different. Rite of Spring represents a more human primal force, a pagan one, but one that still thinks. Jaws, on the other hand, is all about this primal beast that is totally mindless and cannot feel sympathy for anything.

Also, The Rite of Spring segment that sounds similar to Jaws is the same dissonant chord played more than 50 times, with the main hits being almost unpredictable -In fact that's the key to the whole piece: Once you get the rythm, boom! It changes to something else.

Jaws is three notes played in succession, not this gigantic chord. I'd say the similiarities are only in rythm and some of the orchestrations, particularly the piccolos; but apart from that, I'd hardly call Jaws Johnny's Rite of Spring. Heck, I don't think he has one... Maybe some of the more brutally rythmic stuff on War of the Worlds could get closer to that... Now that I think about it, wasn't he supposed to be writing a percussion concerto? Maybe we'll get his Rite there. He may even get even further and go all Ginastera on us!

But back on topic, I do agree that Close Encounters is Spielberg's masterpiece. I haven't watched it in a long time, so I'm preparing myself to revisit it and be surprised by it like it was the first time.

Where did you hear JW was writing a percussion concerto?

[Muad'Dib 2,059]

I knew I would be heavily corrected by more expert people. This is what I love about this forum, you always learn something.

As you said, Prometheus, Jaws is not just Le Sacre. Like most film composers, the combination between different previous composers styles, both "classic" and contemporary is what makes Johnny's output so special.

By the way, Prometheus, could you recommend some stuff by Webern and Searle? I'm not familiar with them.

Where did you hear JW was writing a percussion concerto?

It was mentioned fairly recently here I believe, but it was more of an assumption because of Johnny's meeting with a famous percussionist and the fact that everyone was composing concertos for him.

[Uni 307]

Although I would argue that WILLIAMS' "Rite of Spring" moment appears in JAWS, for the obvious reasons.

I don't know, to me The Rite and Jaws, while they may sound similar out of context, they couldn't be more different. Rite of Spring represents a more human primal force, a pagan one, but one that still thinks. Jaws, on the other hand, is all about this primal beast that is totally mindless and cannot feel sympathy for anything.

Uh . . . no. I don't think he's making any comparison musically between Jaws and "Rite of Spring." Stravinsky's epic orchestral masterpiece literally changed the world when it debuted in Paris on May 29, 1913. Many consider it the literal birth of modern music. It had much the same effect nine years later when Leopold Stokowski introduced it to American audiences.When tedfud (and Thor after him) referred to CE3K as Spielberg's "Rite of Spring" moment, I think he was talking about its impact on modern cinema. (I hope he'll correct me if I misinterpreted him.)

And I think I'd have to say that Thor's closer on this one. Jaws was the first ever summer blockbuster. It reshaped the way studios approach their entire yearly schedule of releases, and spawned a thousand attempts to recapture its fervor with audiences (and a few of them were even successful). While CE3K is certainly a milestone—and a lifelong favorite movie of mine—it was yet another success in the mold Spielberg had already established, and it only spawned a dozen or so really bad, B-grade "friendly alien" movies.

As for Williams, I'd have to agree that Star Wars represents his ROS moment. That's the score that brought Korngoldian grandeur and motif-based orchestrations back to the movies. Most of what we love listening to arises out of its earth-shattering success. It gave composers permission once again to depart from the disco/soft jazz/psychedelic/rock anthem scores that had all but taken over Hollywood in the 60s and early 70s, and to return to their grand orchestral roots.

Of course, all of this is stretching the analogy a bit anyway. Neither Spielberg nor Williams reinvented anything; they simply went back to what made movies, and movie music, great. And audiences loved them for it—in contrast to the reaction Stravinsky got for ROS, which was a combination of perplexity and intense outrage.

- Uni

[tedfud 39]

yes it's a daft comparison in many ways but.........i like to think that certain artist of good calibre like Mr Spielberg, have a moment when all their talent and expertise align in one creation. For me the rite was without doubt Stravinsky's and I think Close encounters was Spielberg's. Jaws was a good film and did in many ways start the summer Blockbuster trend ( not always seen as a good thing, as well argued in "Easy Riders' and Raging Bulls" ) but it was a film of a big book. And as good a film as it was, like the Firebird before it, was still clearly the work of someone still trying to find a unique voice. I really believe that in Close Encounters Spielberg found his and got the balance of Awe and Sentiment , Technique and Inspiration nicely sewn up.

Blinding Score too

T

[Uni 307]

I see . . . so you're referring less to its ultimate impact on the world, and more to an instance of personal inspiration.

In that case, I agree with you entirely. The crafting, and subsequent success, of Jaws was as much a product of its own production problems as it was with Spielberg's innate genius. Most of the small, transitional shots that add so much character to the film were bits that Spielberg set up on a whim during the interminable hours the crew waited for the technicians to get Bruce up and working. It's not at all a stretch to say that if they'd gotten that film done on time, on budget, and according to plan, it wouldn't be the beloved classic it is today. It's really a miraculous accident, coupled with excellent instincts and the professionalism of actors and director.

CE3K, on the other hand, was a personal story for Spielberg. It was his own Pinocchio "wish" story that he made come true through his own resources and vision. It was the first movie to bear the mark of the ineffable Spielberg "magic." I think he was genuinely inspired, and created an inspiration in response. He would do it again in future productions, but CE3K was the film that gave him the permission and confidence to do it.

Looking at it that way, while Jaws may have been his rite of passage, Close Encounters was definitely his "Rite of Spring."

- Uni

[tedfud 39]

I see . . . so you're referring less to its ultimate impact on the world, and more to an instance of personal inspiration.

- Uni

Totally.........Riots at the Theatre were passé by the seventies .....we were all far too stoned......

[Jay 46,244]

What's a "Rite Of Spring Moment"?